21 Y/O Male - Advice Needed

Off Topic
101

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Sorry if this causes some to take offense, but I think this thread has gone in the wrong direction:

I agree that the OP has issues that probably go beyond the help that can be provided on an online forum, and that he may benefit from some type of counseling. I also agree that his attitude is not something that many on this board will either understand or respect. That does not justify the types of belittling and demeaning responses that it has generated.

Those responses from posters including flipcollar and dagill are more a reflection upon them than it is a denouncing of the OP. If someone says they are feeling suicidal, you do not call them cowardly and say they ‘won’t do it.’ If a person is clearly facing some type of depression, you do not respond by telling that person that they are pathetic, weak, etc.

You guys are purportedly adults: this is not hard.

Then flipcollar writes a long post about his early struggles followed by what I can only describe as a paen to his own greatness. Flipcollar, here I will make some direct comments: first, that I do not think I have met any people who are actually well educated or intelligent who would describe themselves as “really smart by any metric” (though congratulations on your high SAT score…). You lost years of your life in terms of development and education to your addictions and own problems–it’s admirable that you recovered, but that doesn’t mean you have gotten that time in terms of education back. Your attitude in this thread certainly does not reflect well upon your having “cultivated a winning personality,” and you can talk about having built your body up over the years, your lack of ab work in other threads, etc, but you should also mention in fairness that you are using certain substances that others eschew for reasons of either legality or whatever moral qualms they might have.

That’s not to say that everything in the past two pages or so of this thread are entirely unhelpful, but I just think it has gone down entirely the wrong track. The OP may hopefully take from this thread that maybe he should talk to a parent, friend or counselor about how he is feeling before it goes to down a road he does not want. But I think that a lot on here has been some combination of unproductive, self-indulgent beating up on someone, and juvenile.

I guess that’s my $.02.[/quote]

ok, I’ll address most of this.

First of all, I talked about myself because someone in this thread asked me specifically to do so. Read the posts right before I wrote the post you’re referring to. I’m aware that was something of a derail, but the thread derailed from the original direction long ago.

Another metric would include Mensa testing. Plus any and all IQ-type tests I did throughout school. And difficult logic puzzles. I’m very, very strong in rational/logical thought. And I made it through 2 years of Calculus before College. I didn’t realize someone would think that a smart person wouldn’t say something like that. But it’s cool, whatever. I’m not offended. I truly don’t need a faceless internet dude to verify my intelligence.

I certainly did miss out on a lot. I feel like that’s exactly what I said. I said I squandered away the opportunities that a full scholarship presented. Not sure why you think I believe otherwise. The point was only to suggest that, at the OP’s age, I was at my bottom, and I was able to turn things around. I would NEVER say that my drug use, among other things, was a good idea. It was terrible. I hurt people close to me, and closed doors that I will never be able to open again.

There’s no reason for me to address the personality thing. I know what I do works for me, and if you take exception to that based on how I converse with people on T Nation threads, so be it.

I also feel like I’ve been very open about PED usage. I talk about literally almost everyday on T Nation threads. And THIS THREAD started in the steroid forum, and was, at some point, moved to GAL. I don’t read GAL threads generally, so that’s the only reason I’ve ended up posting in this one.

102

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Sorry if this causes some to take offense, but I think this thread has gone in the wrong direction:

I agree that the OP has issues that probably go beyond the help that can be provided on an online forum, and that he may benefit from some type of counseling. I also agree that his attitude is not something that many on this board will either understand or respect. That does not justify the types of belittling and demeaning responses that it has generated.

Those responses from posters including flipcollar and dagill are more a reflection upon them than it is a denouncing of the OP. If someone says they are feeling suicidal, you do not call them cowardly and say they ‘won’t do it.’ If a person is clearly facing some type of depression, you do not respond by telling that person that they are pathetic, weak, etc.

You guys are purportedly adults: this is not hard.

Then flipcollar writes a long post about his early struggles followed by what I can only describe as a paen to his own greatness. Flipcollar, here I will make some direct comments: first, that I do not think I have met any people who are actually well educated or intelligent who would describe themselves as “really smart by any metric” (though congratulations on your high SAT score…). You lost years of your life in terms of development and education to your addictions and own problems–it’s admirable that you recovered, but that doesn’t mean you have gotten that time in terms of education back. Your attitude in this thread certainly does not reflect well upon your having “cultivated a winning personality,” and you can talk about having built your body up over the years, your lack of ab work in other threads, etc, but you should also mention in fairness that you are using certain substances that others eschew for reasons of either legality or whatever moral qualms they might have.

That’s not to say that everything in the past two pages or so of this thread are entirely unhelpful, but I just think it has gone down entirely the wrong track. The OP may hopefully take from this thread that maybe he should talk to a parent, friend or counselor about how he is feeling before it goes to down a road he does not want. But I think that a lot on here has been some combination of unproductive, self-indulgent beating up on someone, and juvenile.

I guess that’s my $.02.[/quote]

ok, I’ll address most of this.

First of all, I talked about myself because someone in this thread asked me specifically to do so. Read the posts right before I wrote the post you’re referring to. I’m aware that was something of a derail, but the thread derailed from the original direction long ago.

Another metric would include Mensa testing. Plus any and all IQ-type tests I did throughout school. And difficult logic puzzles. I’m very, very strong in rational/logical thought. And I made it through 2 years of Calculus before College. I didn’t realize someone would think that a smart person wouldn’t say something like that. But it’s cool, whatever. I’m not offended. I truly don’t need a faceless internet dude to verify my intelligence.

I certainly did miss out on a lot. I feel like that’s exactly what I said. I said I squandered away the opportunities that a full scholarship presented. Not sure why you think I believe otherwise. The point was only to suggest that, at the OP’s age, I was at my bottom, and I was able to turn things around. I would NEVER say that my drug use, among other things, was a good idea. It was terrible. I hurt people close to me, and closed doors that I will never be able to open again.

There’s no reason for me to address the personality thing. I know what I do works for me, and if you take exception to that based on how I converse with people on T Nation threads, so be it.

I also feel like I’ve been very open about PED usage. I talk about literally almost everyday on T Nation threads. And THIS THREAD started in the steroid forum, and was, at some point, moved to GAL. I don’t read GAL threads generally, so that’s the only reason I’ve ended up posting in this one.[/quote]
I really don’t think you have a need to explain yourself to someone getting butthurt when even the OP himself isn’t.

I believe the OP will come back and say thank you when he makes it out of his self-imposed rut.

103

[quote]MinustheColon wrote:
and you can talk about having built your body up over the years, your lack of ab work in other threads, etc, but you should also mention in fairness that you are using certain substances that others eschew for reasons of either legality or whatever moral qualms they might have.
[/quote]

See? This is deeper than this dude just getting worked up over your attitude towards the OP.

Just tell him about your progress when you were still natural.

104

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]MinustheColon wrote:
and you can talk about having built your body up over the years, your lack of ab work in other threads, etc, but you should also mention in fairness that you are using certain substances that others eschew for reasons of either legality or whatever moral qualms they might have.
[/quote]

See? This is deeper than this dude just getting worked up over your attitude towards the OP.

Just tell him about your progress when you were still natural.[/quote]

LOL. You’re probably right. I don’t remember him from anything specific, but it seems pretty clear we’ve disagreed on 1 or 2 things along the way. The abs things is kinda funny to me, because a)my abs look essentially the same as they did before gear, and b) the only thing I’ve ever really said on this forum about abs is that they come from diet and being muscular overall, rather than concentrated ab work. I think that’s a pretty common opinion.

And I’ve posted so many pictures of myself when I was natural, I don’t really need to do it anymore, but I guess it’s worth mentioning here that I only started about a year ago. I did achieve a 1250+ powerlifting total naturally, at about 180-185 lbs if I remember correctly.

105

1469×1708 289 KB

You know what? Fuck it. This was July of last year. Natural.

106

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Oh grow up man. No one wants to throw you a fucking pity party. You think you’re the only person who’s ever had obstacles to overcome? Jesus Christ dude. You’re 21. When I was your age (actually I was 22), I was a 130 lbs drug addict, a college dropout, on the brink of homelessness, facing felony possession charges.

10 years later, I’ve got a comfortable 6 figure income, the body I want, a beautiful wife, my own house, and 3 nice cars. And 6 chickens, for whatever that’s worth. You can turn things around if you commit to it. Take your drama queen bullshit somewhere else. When you started this thread, I thought you were earnestly asking for advice, which you’ve received. You’ve misled all of us.
[/quote]
We’re more alike than you know. I am, at present, a 5’6" 110 lb college dropout, pothead, and I do construction for my paycheck. No, this is not a joke.

[quote]pat wrote:
You do not want to increase DHT, unless you want to lose your hair and have a prostate the size of an orange.
[/quote]

Actually, I do, because it’s the impulsiveness and aggressiveness hormone, as well as the body hair / beard growth hormone. All of these wouldn’t hurt me at present.

To be clear, I started this thread because I was wondering what kind of advice I would get by asking in the “lion’s den”, or T-Nation, purportedly the heart of masculinity’s presence on the internet. There is so much confusion in the head of a 21 year old, in a lot of ways the responses I have got here have made it more confusing, though some shreds have truth have spoken to me as well.

As a Taurus I tend to think of many things at a physical or external level, even though I am a genuine person at heart. The consensus here, however, seems to be that fixing or modifying the outside isn’t going to save me either. That’s why I asked about hormones, because they work at an internal level but affect health overall. I may be better off speaking to an endocrinologist, however. My body has been through so much abuse over the years that I am afraid I have some permanent issues now.

My take-away, though, is that it’s kind of a “do or don’t” thing at this point. There is no one solution that will work.

107

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You know what? Fuck it. This was July of last year. Natural.[/quote]
And, IIRC, you gained like 60-80lbs naturally over 10 years?

Starting roidz automatically nullifies all this. You don’t know how to train anymore. Stop giving bad advice.

108

What kind of construction do you do?

109

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
What kind of construction do you do?[/quote]

papier mache

110

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
What kind of construction do you do?[/quote]

papier mache [/quote]
ohh burn

111

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
What kind of construction do you do?[/quote]

papier mache [/quote]
Thats what I’m guessing.
Also that he just thinks it’s hard because he sucks at it. With a little time and effort he could develop some skill and eventually realize that the vast majority of construction is cake.

112

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Oh grow up man. No one wants to throw you a fucking pity party. You think you’re the only person who’s ever had obstacles to overcome? Jesus Christ dude. You’re 21. When I was your age (actually I was 22), I was a 130 lbs drug addict, a college dropout, on the brink of homelessness, facing felony possession charges.

10 years later, I’ve got a comfortable 6 figure income, the body I want, a beautiful wife, my own house, and 3 nice cars. And 6 chickens, for whatever that’s worth. You can turn things around if you commit to it. Take your drama queen bullshit somewhere else. When you started this thread, I thought you were earnestly asking for advice, which you’ve received. You’ve misled all of us.
[/quote]
We’re more alike than you know. I am, at present, a 5’6" 110 lb college dropout, pothead, and I do construction for my paycheck. No, this is not a joke.

[quote]pat wrote:
You do not want to increase DHT, unless you want to lose your hair and have a prostate the size of an orange.
[/quote]

Actually, I do, because it’s the impulsiveness and aggressiveness hormone, as well as the body hair / beard growth hormone. All of these wouldn’t hurt me at present.

To be clear, I started this thread because I was wondering what kind of advice I would get by asking in the “lion’s den”, or T-Nation, purportedly the heart of masculinity’s presence on the internet. There is so much confusion in the head of a 21 year old, in a lot of ways the responses I have got here have made it more confusing, though some shreds have truth have spoken to me as well.

As a Taurus I tend to think of many things at a physical or external level, even though I am a genuine person at heart. The consensus here, however, seems to be that fixing or modifying the outside isn’t going to save me either. That’s why I asked about hormones, because they work at an internal level but affect health overall. I may be better off speaking to an endocrinologist, however. My body has been through so much abuse over the years that I am afraid I have some permanent issues now.

My take-away, though, is that it’s kind of a “do or don’t” thing at this point. There is no one solution that will work.
[/quote]

Your last sentence pretty much nails it.

Also, I see no issue with where you’re at right now. Don’t really understand the ‘no this is not a joke’ comment. There’s nothing wrong with working construction. I run a metal fabrication company, and I have immense respect for all the manual laborers who work for me. I grew up doing this stuff, and when I got clean, I did metal fab work for several years.

I actually had a 90 year old employee who retired 2 years ago from working here. He worked construction until he was 65, retired for 2 months, then came to work here, in '89. One of the best human beings I’ve ever met, and he’s well loved by many, many people. Your job title doesn’t define you.

113

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You know what? Fuck it. This was July of last year. Natural.[/quote]
And, IIRC, you gained like 60-80lbs naturally over 10 years?

Starting roidz automatically nullifies all this. You don’t know how to train anymore. Stop giving bad advice.[/quote]

Yea, I started lifting when I was 18. I’m 32 next week. And been using gear for about a year. I weighed about 190 when I started using, and I woke up this morning weighing 188, lol.

114

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

Your last sentence pretty much nails it.

Also, I see no issue with where you’re at right now. Don’t really understand the ‘no this is not a joke’ comment. There’s nothing wrong with working construction. I run a metal fabrication company, and I have immense respect for all the manual laborers who work for me. I grew up doing this stuff, and when I got clean, I did metal fab work for several years.

I actually had a 90 year old employee who retired 2 years ago from working here. He worked construction until he was 65, retired for 2 months, then came to work here, in '89. One of the best human beings I’ve ever met, and he’s well loved by many, many people. Your job title doesn’t define you.[/quote]
Thanks, only wrote that because being my size and doing this sort of thing is a joke to a lot of people. Amazingly though, I’m not even that weak, an advantage of having grown up doing farm work and never at one point was I a couch potato.

Choosing to ignore some douchebag comments that don’t merit a response. In response to the original question of what kind of construction I do, however, I work for a contractor, we do jobs ranging from custom home construction to siding, roofing, interior work and repair.

115

[quote]dave670 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
What kind of construction do you do?[/quote]

papier mache [/quote]
ohh burn [/quote]

would you rather I said gingerbread houses?

116

So, re-feed every 3 hours after breakfast and you will have plenty of energy to hit the weights in the evening. Not too late or you wont be able to sleep.

117

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You know what? Fuck it. This was July of last year. Natural.[/quote]
And, IIRC, you gained like 60-80lbs naturally over 10 years?

Starting roidz automatically nullifies all this. You don’t know how to train anymore. Stop giving bad advice.[/quote]

Yea, I started lifting when I was 18. I’m 32 next week. And been using gear for about a year. I weighed about 190 when I started using, and I woke up this morning weighing 188, lol.[/quote]
So you don’t realise the false expectations you’re giving others by using yourself as an example in terms of physique development? I mean, come on, a 2lb weightloss over a year? Do you understand what a monumental feat that is when done naturally?

Okok gotta stop this… so amused by that guy’s rant hahaha

118

[quote]dave670 wrote:

Actually, I do, because it’s the impulsiveness and aggressiveness hormone, as well as the body hair / beard growth hormone. All of these wouldn’t hurt me at present.

[/quote]
No, you really really don’t want an enlarged prostate.

Impulsiveness is not a virtue. Many intelligent people I know have been ruined by this. Developing real guts, instead, requires the ability to think objectively and not be controlled by emotions.

119

[quote]dt79 wrote:
Developing real guts, instead, requires the ability to think objectively and not be controlled by emotions. [/quote]
Does it take guts to be a 5’6" 110 lb man and not be an absolute, pathetic beta? If size isn’t what I’m proving “strength” through obviously I have something else going. It’s a test to myself.

120

In this day and age, I applaud manual labor. There are too many men in college and not enough working with their hands. I know of many men who do quite fine financially with their trades. And perhaps some young and impressionable people think low of working with hands because the media has given a fantastic image of male characters in TV shows and films who seemingly earn large sums of money in luxurious settings with little effort and plenty of recreational time with all that. They have characters who push money and information around in posh offices, wear fancy clothing, bark orders at people, always get their way, and have a pretty secretary at their beck and call, usually to set up plans at the most chic restaurants and night life spots. Mr. Big, Gordon Gecko, and Patrick Bateman come to mind. Although I have met men who do little for their millions (I’ve worked for them) and for whom life is one big amusement park, such men exist in extremely few numbers.

MinustheColon: I like your posts on here. However, I believe you have flip collar wrong. I have conversed with him elsewhere and know for sure that he is a reasonable, empathetic, and humble guy. I think what he meant by “winning personality” was exactly what’s implied: the personality of a winner, not necessarily someone who is genius, special, unique, loaded, or gifted.

I do believe that there are times for tough love in some cases. Sometimes tough love can come across as brow beating or is used in the wrong context, such as in the case of someone using it inappropriately because they want to get their rocks off and satisfy themselves by berating or ridiculing those who are weaker than them, or in a weaker situation. One has to consider the state of mind the person they are giving it too. To give tough love to someone who is worn down and emotionally distraught and warped or clinically depressed is NOT a good idea, I believe. Has anyone here been clinically depressed and can recollect how warped their mind was at the time? I can! Instead of toughening up from some harsh exhortation (calling someone a snowflake or reminding him how insensitive others can be and that he should just deal with it) can actually make the depressed or self-hating person reinforce their self hate or their perception that others don’t like them either. Example: "Here I am at work and others think I am dirt. Then I go to other men for help and they don’t think I’m up to snuff either. I should just… "

There is a great deal of abuse in the workplace, especially these days I believe, in an increasingly insensitive, crass, self-centered, and distasteful world. And one of the main targets of abusive people who want to get their rocks off are those who can smell depression and low-self esteem in others, because these people seldom fire back. I know this from personal experience. Even though the times I had clinical depression, I lifted seriously, I had more than a fair share of people in and out of the workplace give annoying digs or attempts to antagonize me. When I was younger, I would remain quiet and become more depressed and angry. When I got a bit older, I could be very nasty in return or let the person know what’s up. I rarely have this problem today and I believe it is because I am no longer depressed and I REALLY don’t have a problem letting people know where it’s at, and no, I am not a tough guy.

Many people (idiots) also have a habit of confusing cordiality with weakness. Because they perceive callousness to be a sign of strength, they think the well mannered person is aloof, unaware, easily fooled, and easier to intimidate.

OP, if people truly are verbally abusing you, then you have every right to stick up for yourself. On the other hand, you will need to toughen up a bit because you will likely run into bad people wherever you go, in and out of work.

Onto the topic of women. As many of you know, I am adamant about discussing this topic because of my own problems which are actually very similar to the OP’s. Hence I am not going down the tough love route. As FC said, large muscles do little for women generally. Some people around here do not agree or like what I have to say about dating and women.

I’ve said it god knows how many times: there are few things in this world that can make a man angrier than lack of a woman. Just look at the utter confusion and loneliness it causes and why we see THOUSANDS of men on forums asking and theorizing, “What do women like?”, “Where do I find a woman?”, “Only alphas get women. I am a beta.” “This guy’s alpha. That guy’s beta. This guy’s a slayer.” Bla, blah, blah! There are entire blogs and websites dedicated to this goddamn mess!

When people like the OP ask, “What do woman want” or about where they can find one, my counter question is, “What kind of women?!” There are millions of women out there and there is great variety amongst them. When men ask about women, I think they are asking about beautiful and popular women, because that’s usually who confused, horny, and young men want. They don’t actually think about what women match them or who will go for them in return. Perhaps OP is a realistic man who understands this.

I will write more later, as my own woman just got in the door and she can’t stand my time on this board. :slight_smile: What I will say for now to OP is:

  1. Do not be in ANYWAY ashamed of doing a MAN’s job. 2) If you are very concerned about your testosterone value, see a qualified urologist or endocrinologist who knows what they are doing, preferably one with a fellowship in andrology/fertility. 3) Get on a diet and go to the gym. 4) Live your life doing what you enjoy and make friends through this avenue, which will hopefully in turn lead to meeting women you will be interested in. 5) You can change some things about yourself, but you don’t have to change who you are to hold your head high and have some self-respect. No one has to be a muscular 6’4" with a huge bank account and high IQ to have self respect. 7) You can’t be something you’re not.