2010 Mr Olympia

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 2:22pm

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]NuYi wrote:
^^
Isn’t being short/tall genetic aswell then? Atleast judging by your own criteria…?[/quote]

That’s what I’m saying. Doc mentioned Rock’s vascularity being a genetic “gift”.
He also mentioned his height in a negative context (as if a good short man stands no chance against a pretty good tall man). I defended his shortness as genetic as well with emphasis on the fact that it should have no impact on the outcome of his placing.[/quote]

You are taking offense because of your own height. I just explained this. His height IS a factor if his proportions are affected. [/quote]

No, I wasn’t.
If vascularity is a genetic trait that should be overlooked as a “gift” that varies from person to person (and one that is outside of what one can do about it), then stature should be as well. Vic can’t make himself more vascular, and Rockel can’t make himself taller. I only wanted to level the playing field.

That’s another reason I chose Phil to win. Jay is broader, naturally. He didn’t make his clavicles wide through hard work, yet most people who defend him only see his basic outline and use that as the single most important criteria. [/quote]

Yeah, that’s you, being ridiculous.

One thing that stands out to me about Rockel is his biceps. They are LAGGING. It makes his entire arm look shorter. HEIGHT isn’t a factor unless it affects PROPORTION. Once again, Lee Priest could be 5’10 for all we know just looking at one picture. He doesn’t LOOK short alone because he has mastered (or at least he had) his proportions.

yes, Rockel was in great shape, and like I wrote before, a top ten finish wouldn’t have phased, but top six should be for people with the SHAPE to go with the CONDITIONING.

This entire show just showed that they don’t give a shit about aesthetics despite all of the “X-frame” talk bullshit going on earlier.

If they are going to simply award conditioning above all else, then Branch should have come in second.

You can’t hop all over the fence as far as what traits you think make up a current Mr. Olympia.

If you hate wide waists (like we always heard of when Ronnie was on stage), then why turn around and act like Cutler wasn’t carrying one of the widest waists on stage?

When Phil and he stood next to each other, THAT alone is what stood out the most.

zraw · September 27, 2010, 2:26pm

X has something against white bodybuilders, obviously

Iron_Dwarf · September 27, 2010, 2:32pm

Okay, we’re arguing the same damn points… and also the points of each other!

So where am I being ridiculous? I agree that Jay should NOT have won. And I agree that relative size, shape AND conditioning should exist together as the criteria. And I agree that vascularity is only a part of one’s conditioning, yet shouldn’t make a difference in placing.

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 2:37pm

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay, we’re arguing the same damn points… and also the points of each other!

So where am I being ridiculous? I agree that Jay should NOT have won. And I agree that relative size, shape AND conditioning should exist together as the criteria. And I agree that vascularity is only a part of one’s conditioning, yet shouldn’t make a difference in placing.

[/quote]

Good. Now, don’t you have some more afros to draw?

Iron_Dwarf · September 27, 2010, 2:40pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Okay, we’re arguing the same damn points… and also the points of each other!

So where am I being ridiculous? I agree that Jay should NOT have won. And I agree that relative size, shape AND conditioning should exist together as the criteria. And I agree that vascularity is only a part of one’s conditioning, yet shouldn’t make a difference in placing.

[/quote]

Good. Now, don’t you have some more afros to draw?

[/quote]

Is that all I am to you? Just an ART WHORE?
Where is the LOVE?

I work these little lady fingers to the bone for your (and everyone else’s) entertainment, yet at the end of the day I feel so empty.

I need a hug.

waylanderxx · September 27, 2010, 2:50pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
It’s obvious Vic spilled over or just wasn’t in shape. He has no separation anywhere! Nothing in the arms, nothing in the stomach (although I admit this could be due to the way he flexed) and his legs have almost none.

[/quote]

It’s not just the way he flexes. When have you ever seen Vic with veins everywhere like Rockel showed? It isn’t much different than us differing in how we may show vascularity. If you show more veins than me even when at the same body fat levels, that is a GENETIC difference that neither of us can do much about.[/quote]

Veins is not separation Prof. I’m referring to muscle separation, vascularity was not mentioned.

BONEZ217 · September 27, 2010, 2:56pm

Seriously. When’s the last time Victor was actually in shape. Not “in shape for Victor”. When has he ever showed superb condtioning. Rockel is getting better and better each show and Victor isnt.

If Victor should have been top 5 than Kai should be unanimous Mr O.

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 3:06pm

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Seriously. When’s the last time Victor was actually in shape. Not “in shape for Victor”. When has he ever showed superb condtioning. Rockel is getting better and better each show and Victor isnt.

If Victor should have been top 5 than Kai should be unanimous Mr O. [/quote]

? The same can be said about aesthetics which are apparently not even judged on lately.

Kai isn’t the main factor in this show. PHIL HEATH was. Phil should have a brand new trophy at home right now.

Rockel looked to be in great condition. He also needs better shape overall, more size on his arms and something about his legs make them look short.

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 3:08pm

This is a top six back? Hell, I hope my back is about that size now.

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 3:11pm

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
It’s obvious Vic spilled over or just wasn’t in shape. He has no separation anywhere! Nothing in the arms, nothing in the stomach (although I admit this could be due to the way he flexed) and his legs have almost none.

[/quote]

It’s not just the way he flexes. When have you ever seen Vic with veins everywhere like Rockel showed? It isn’t much different than us differing in how we may show vascularity. If you show more veins than me even when at the same body fat levels, that is a GENETIC difference that neither of us can do much about.[/quote]

Veins is not separation Prof. I’m referring to muscle separation, vascularity was not mentioned.[/quote]

There is separation here. Those are striations on his chest and legs. is the lighting make you think he had no detail at all?

BONEZ217 · September 27, 2010, 3:17pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Seriously. When’s the last time Victor was actually in shape. Not “in shape for Victor”. When has he ever showed superb condtioning. Rockel is getting better and better each show and Victor isnt.

If Victor should have been top 5 than Kai should be unanimous Mr O. [/quote]

? The same can be said about aesthetics which are apparently not even judged on lately.

Kai isn’t the main factor in this show. PHIL HEATH was. Phil should have a brand new trophy at home right now.

Rockel looked to be in great condition. He also needs better shape overall, more size on his arms and something about his legs make them look short.[/quote]

Strawman.

I used Kai for an analogy regarding the visually apparent condition of the competitors. Heath has nothing to do with Victor or my comparison. My point was that conditioning is a HUGE factor in the pinnacle of bodybuilding. There are guys in the NPC bringing better conditioning than Victor brought this weekend.

Rockel was in much much better condition than Victor. And Rockel’s aesthetics arent anything close to bad. I’d have actually had Rockel ahead of wolf because Wolf is a joke when he turns around.

I predicted Victor to be in the top 5. I’ve said it numerous times. Victor has the best structure/muscle bellies combo since Ronnie stepped down. He just cant bring it all together. People dont get rewarded for what could be. When Victor brings the same condition as the guys ahead of him in the placing he will place better. Simple as that.

The judges are at the least being very consistent and systematic with their placings. Prime example is Branch Warren beating Dexter 3 shows in a row. I’m aware that the judges change for the different shows, but the criteria is relatively identical now for the Arnold and the O. Size → Conditioning → Shape/structure/aesthetics → Hair-do etc.

zraw · September 27, 2010, 3:23pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is a top six back? Hell, I hope my back is about that size now.[/quote]

Well damn you should compete, turn pro, and make big money doing what you love

maraudermeat · September 27, 2010, 3:27pm

that’s why it’s called a show and not a competition. everything about bodybuilding is subjective. there’s no point in arguing the outcomes.

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 3:30pm

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Seriously. When’s the last time Victor was actually in shape. Not “in shape for Victor”. When has he ever showed superb condtioning. Rockel is getting better and better each show and Victor isnt.

If Victor should have been top 5 than Kai should be unanimous Mr O. [/quote]

? The same can be said about aesthetics which are apparently not even judged on lately.

Kai isn’t the main factor in this show. PHIL HEATH was. Phil should have a brand new trophy at home right now.

Rockel looked to be in great condition. He also needs better shape overall, more size on his arms and something about his legs make them look short.[/quote]

Strawman.

I used Kai for an analogy regarding the visually apparent condition of the competitors. Heath has nothing to do with Victor or my comparison. My point was that conditioning is a HUGE factor in the pinnacle of bodybuilding. There are guys in the NPC bringing better conditioning than Victor brought this weekend.

Rockel was in much much better condition than Victor. And Rockel’s aesthetics arent anything close to bad. I’d have actually had Rockel ahead of wolf because Wolf is a joke when he turns around.

I predicted Victor to be in the top 5. I’ve said it numerous times. Victor has the best structure/muscle bellies combo since Ronnie stepped down. He just cant bring it all together. People dont get rewarded for what could be. When Victor brings the same condition as the guys ahead of him in the placing he will place better. Simple as that.

The judges are at the least being very consistent and systematic with their placings. Prime example is Branch Warren beating Dexter 3 shows in a row. I’m aware that the judges change for the different shows, but the criteria is relatively identical now for the Arnold and the O. Size → Conditioning → Shape/structure/aesthetics → Hair-do etc. [/quote]

The ONLY thing we agree on is that Wolfe shouldn’t have been anywhere near a top five placing.

They seem to award ‘changes’ more than they award development…which is supposedly how Wolfe came in ahead, by improving more than others.

I personally think this is bullshit. This is what they used to say about Shawn Ray because he pretty much brought the exact same package year after year…but why grade him down for that if he looks great as a result?

The same goes for Dex.

I am well aware that conditioning, especially in smaller shows, weighs heavy on the judges, but Vic didn’t look much different here in that regard than he ever does…which means you must think his past high placings were all lacking “condition”.

You can stick a quarter in that gap in his quads but you see no separation??

You can see the striations in his chest and his quads…so what do you mean?

I am thinking maybe the lighting is making it hard for you to see this. Maybe he should have used even darker tanning oil.

waylanderxx · September 27, 2010, 3:37pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
It’s obvious Vic spilled over or just wasn’t in shape. He has no separation anywhere! Nothing in the arms, nothing in the stomach (although I admit this could be due to the way he flexed) and his legs have almost none.

[/quote]

It’s not just the way he flexes. When have you ever seen Vic with veins everywhere like Rockel showed? It isn’t much different than us differing in how we may show vascularity. If you show more veins than me even when at the same body fat levels, that is a GENETIC difference that neither of us can do much about.[/quote]

Veins is not separation Prof. I’m referring to muscle separation, vascularity was not mentioned.[/quote]

There is separation here. Those are striations on his chest and legs. is the lighting make you think he had no detail at all?[/quote]

Every man that size is going to have separation between upper/lower chest. Saying he is striated is giving him way too much credit.

BONEZ217 · September 27, 2010, 3:43pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Seriously. When’s the last time Victor was actually in shape. Not “in shape for Victor”. When has he ever showed superb condtioning. Rockel is getting better and better each show and Victor isnt.

If Victor should have been top 5 than Kai should be unanimous Mr O. [/quote]

? The same can be said about aesthetics which are apparently not even judged on lately.

Kai isn’t the main factor in this show. PHIL HEATH was. Phil should have a brand new trophy at home right now.

Rockel looked to be in great condition. He also needs better shape overall, more size on his arms and something about his legs make them look short.[/quote]

Strawman.

I used Kai for an analogy regarding the visually apparent condition of the competitors. Heath has nothing to do with Victor or my comparison. My point was that conditioning is a HUGE factor in the pinnacle of bodybuilding. There are guys in the NPC bringing better conditioning than Victor brought this weekend.

Rockel was in much much better condition than Victor. And Rockel’s aesthetics arent anything close to bad. I’d have actually had Rockel ahead of wolf because Wolf is a joke when he turns around.

I predicted Victor to be in the top 5. I’ve said it numerous times. Victor has the best structure/muscle bellies combo since Ronnie stepped down. He just cant bring it all together. People dont get rewarded for what could be. When Victor brings the same condition as the guys ahead of him in the placing he will place better. Simple as that.

The judges are at the least being very consistent and systematic with their placings. Prime example is Branch Warren beating Dexter 3 shows in a row. I’m aware that the judges change for the different shows, but the criteria is relatively identical now for the Arnold and the O. Size → Conditioning → Shape/structure/aesthetics → Hair-do etc. [/quote]

The ONLY thing we agree on is that Wolfe shouldn’t have been anywhere near a top five placing.

They seem to award ‘changes’ more than they award development…which is supposedly how Wolfe came in ahead, by improving more than others.

I personally think this is bullshit. This is what they used to say about Shawn Ray because he pretty much brought the exact same package year after year…but why grade him down for that if he looks great as a result?

The same goes for Dex.

I am well aware that conditioning, especially in smaller shows, weighs heavy on the judges, but Vic didn’t look much different here in that regard than he ever does…which means you must think his past high placings were all lacking “condition”.

You can stick a quarter in that gap in his quads but you see no separation??

You can see the striations in his chest and his quads…so what do you mean?

I am thinking maybe the lighting is making it hard for you to see this. Maybe he should have used even darker tanning oil.[/quote]

I think his color is a huge issue. Look at his chest in the front double bi shots. It looks dry. Literally dry, not bodybuilding dry. Rockel’s color, and oil I guess, make his muscle jump out at the screen.

Saying Vic looks the same as previous shows isnt something I’ll argue for or against. But I do know that virtually everyone around him is making noticeable changes to their physiques.

Which leads to the point about awarding change. I dont think it’s proper to do so. Dexter shold not place behind Branch. This show was the first one out of the last 3 they did together that it was close but Dexter still should have edged him out.

Victor may not be changing but I do think that others are surpassing him. No CAN surpass his structure and shape but the things that the competitors can control are what’s being judged.

He looks blurred out from the back. The detail needs to be crisper. I see the striations in his chest and legs but you cant convince me that he couldn’t improve them. What else could the judges be thinking?

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 3:50pm

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is a top six back? Hell, I hope my back is about that size now.[/quote]

Well damn you should compete, turn pro, and make big money doing what you love[/quote]

Dude, go away. Why do that when I make money doing what i do now? And get this, there is no “average five year popularity” issue as there is in bodybuilding. The average guy you see on stage won’t be talked about 5 years from now.

Remember Don Long?
Vince Taylor?
Barry Demey?
Francis Benfatto?
Momo Benaziza?
(and these names came from memory not a google search)

No?

Go figure.

You sound like a child at this point with little to offer.

Professor_X · September 27, 2010, 3:48pm