2008 Olympia

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
http://www.thebiguniverse.com/ingram/pic2.jpg

Is it just me, or does he look much better in that pic than he does now?

Also, in that very pic you can see that he had to be a) ultra-peeled, b)flexing his abs as hard as he could in order to show some ab-seperation (not exactly much, you can really see his genetic predisposition to detail-lacking abs here). Pretty much everyone else’s abs would look much better in that very pose.

If you can find a relaxed photo where he has a sixpack/eightpack/whatever showing, then I’ll give in…

[/quote]

That’s what I was getting at…and you have to realize that the pic you chose is pretty old. The guy has been competing for a very long time. I have NPC comp videos where you can’t see much separation at all UNTIL he flexes and this is when he has to be at around 6% body fat or less.

142

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
http://www.thebiguniverse.com/ingram/pic2.jpg

Is it just me, or does he look much better in that pic than he does now?

Also, in that very pic you can see that he had to be a) ultra-peeled, b)flexing his abs as hard as he could in order to show some ab-seperation (not exactly much, you can really see his genetic predisposition to detail-lacking abs here). Pretty much everyone else’s abs would look much better in that very pose.

If you can find a relaxed photo where he has a sixpack/eightpack/whatever showing, then I’ll give in…

That’s what I was getting at…and you have to realize that the pic you chose is pretty old. The guy has been competing for a very long time. I have NPC comp videos where you can’t see much separation at all UNTIL he flexes and this is when he has to be at around 6% body fat or less.[/quote]

Also, if you look at his 2008 prejudging pics, he actually does have the same kind of ab-seperation when he flexes them that he had back then, just a little more thickness (in the ab region).

So I’m with the prof on this one.

143

OK FIRST OFF…milos “guys” are more know for a streamlined physique. He has helped fix people who messed themselves up with distention. Milos is a huge proponent of the vtaper, and classic aesthetic physique. He is also a huge proponent of insulin.

Almost ALL drugs in bodybuilding will cause distention to some degree.

Distention does take away from abdominal seperation.

Leo Ingram has very little abdominal seperation to begin with, distention or not.

Black Sabbath, no offense man, but that pic you posted proved X’s point about Ingram’s abs.

DG

144

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
OK FIRST OFF…milos “guys” are more know for a streamlined physique. He has helped fix people who messed themselves up with distention. Milos is a huge proponent of the vtaper, and classic aesthetic physique. He is also a huge proponent of insulin.

Almost ALL drugs in bodybuilding will cause distention to some degree.

Distention does take away from abdominal seperation.

Leo Ingram has very little abdominal seperation to begin with, distention or not.

Black Sabbath, no offense man, but that pic you posted proved X’s point about Ingram’s abs.

DG[/quote]

A large portion of the big guys that Milos trained did have problems with distension. Silvio, James, Dillet, Rhul, Sonbaty. He a couple names that didn’t, but both James and Silvio had dramatic improvements in distention after leaving and going to Glass and Nichols.

What drugs cause distention? How do ALL drugs cause it?

145

How do you reverse distention?

146

Most anabolic steroids, growth hormone, some peptides, and insulin for one will cause distention. (I personally think it is due to the increase in igf, but I know very little and just started my research on that topic a few months ago)

distention is caused by the growth of internal organs, being that we have more igf receptors there would lead me to believe that this is the cause for distention. Like I said tho I don’t claim to know anything on that topic let alone be credited with any knowledge here.

I don’t know how to reverse it, but some guys that I know who had it really bad said that focusing on keeping the abs tight during all movements helped. Also I guess the vacuum pose has helped some as well.

I think that just as with anything in the body it tends to come back to normal after a while if certain practices are stopped.

All I know is that there is a LOT more people who train under milos or at his gym that do not have distention. If you talk to milos he is a person who strives for the vtaper and aesthetic physique.

All of the names that you listed had distention problems before coming to milos. I think it was due to everybody trying to mass up because of yates and coleman. Training, nutrition, and drug use will all play a role in a thick or distended waist.

I’m not saying milos is always right and that he can fix or make anybody better. I do know that he is not the cause for the distention in athletes.

I know this because I train there and from the people (some amateurs and pros) I know and talk to this is the case.

DG

147

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
http://www.thebiguniverse.com/ingram/pic2.jpg

Is it just me, or does he look much better in that pic than he does now?[/quote]

With less distention so his abs are visible, he looks more streamlined. Doesn’t carry the mass in that picture as he does now. Might need to pull a Dennis James and find the middle ground for his best overall package.

[quote]Also, in that very pic you can see that he had to be a) ultra-peeled, b)flexing his abs as hard as he could in order to show some ab-seperation (not exactly much, you can really see his genetic predisposition to detail-lacking abs here).[quote]

He was in contest chape at the Olympia and many other more recent contests than that old picture. The use of the old picture was necessary as it has been a long time since Ingram has had decent abdominal definition.

And no where did I ever claim that Ingram ever had the thickest most delineated and awe inspiring godlike abs until he raped them or some shit. He didn’t have the best to begin with, so to then lose his six pack will not help him.

Judges remember who has been in better shape or who has had a better previous showing in the past and mark down for it. Weather that is the correct move or not instead of simply judging what is onstage is debatable, but they do indeed do it.

He could improve his placings if he improved that area to the level he had before. I think you are missing my point.

You are giving way too much credit to other bodybuilders. His abs, serratus, and intercostals look pretty damn good there. There are many photos of other bodybuilders that look like shit by comparison. His current midsection is much less detailed by comparison. He needs to bring that look back to his midsection.

Or, you can go fetch them yourself. I feel again as if you have missed the point. He needs to get back to his best midsection and his placings will improve with the better flow of his lines. His best midsection is the one he displayed in the past.

148

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That’s what I was getting at…and you have to realize that the pic you chose is pretty old. The guy has been competing for a very long time. I have NPC comp videos where you can’t see much separation at all UNTIL he flexes and this is when he has to be at around 6% body fat or less.[/quote]

He is indeed old. Would still like to see him try to bring back the seperation he had if he could. Like Dennis James, he has mass to spare and could possibly bring a better package if he brought the area down.

149

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:

I know this because I train there and from the people (some amateurs and pros) I know and talk to this is the case.

DG[/quote]

Ask Milos what his take is on the midsections. That is a problem he has never had personally, yet some of his guys went away from him saying that his protocols were the issue.

It could easily be a combination of things. 17aa methyls can cause liver enlargement/swelling from hepatic insult, igf-1 has receptors on internal organs possibly leading to enlarged growth, insulin resistance can cause increases in visceral adipose tissue causing distention, many hypothesis exist.

Obviously no studies will ever be done on bodybuilders for this, but it would be good to hear Milos’ reasoning. I have actually read his defense of insulin use on other boards and he had some points but lacked others.

It would be interesting to hear what his thoughts are on the cause of the increases in gut size and what it is caused by. If you get the chance, hit him up.

150

Who cares about Ingrams abs? I am just happy that Dex won, this hopefully will be a changing point in rewarding more streamlined, v-tapered, pleasing to look at physiques.

Leo is lucky to be able to stand on stage at the olympia with no seperation in his abs, i consider him lucky.

151

Indeed this thread took an odd turn.

What do you all expect cutler and dexter to do? If you were dex, do you try to defend the arnold, or sit the year out to try and fend off victor at the O in '09?

If you’re Cutler, retire, or try to be the only O champ to reclaim his title after defeat?

152

As champion of both you’d expect him to defend both. However being Mr.O things are different. Id go with defending the O and leave the arnold to Phil Heath, thats even if he chooses to compete at the arnold.

If Culter, definitely come back again next year. Go toe to toe with Dex and Victor and try and win that shit.

153

[quote]paul496 wrote:
As champion of both you’d expect him to defend both. However being Mr.O things are different. Id go with defending the O and leave the arnold to Phil Heath, thats even if he chooses to compete at the arnold.

If Culter, definitely come back again next year. Go toe to toe with Dex and Victor and try and win that shit.[/quote]

Cutler has no chance of ever winning the O again. Unless he drops down to 240-250 and bringing his midsection way down… Still, too many other guys at lighter weights who bring a way better package on stage.

The IFBB apparently want to appease people, and Dex is the right man for that (physique wise). The only reason for the IFBB to let the mass-monsters (not that there are all that many left…) win again is if supplement sales, mag sales and general public opinion go back towards “mass over everything else”.

This is still an economic and highly political thing, not “the best wins” (or else Dex/phil would have become the champs long ago).

154

[quote]BlackSabbath wrote:
Indeed this thread took an odd turn.

What do you all expect cutler and dexter to do? If you were dex, do you try to defend the arnold, or sit the year out to try and fend off victor at the O in '09?

If you’re Cutler, retire, or try to be the only O champ to reclaim his title after defeat?[/quote]

I think that Dex can do both the Arnold and the O but if he does the Arnold and loses then his credibility at the O is cut short (vic, wolf, heath, kai, all at the Arnold?). I honestly don’t see Dex winning either show next year with the lineup he will have to face.

I’d probably just do the O and then retire because I personally think the “young uns” and vic will out do him.

Remember Arnold came back out of retirement and won the O again. Not after defeat but I think it should be anybodys trophy if they can bring the right package and surprise some people.

I’d personally retire if I were Jay, he is no longer genetically what the judges are looking for.

On to Milos, if I talk to the guy and get an answer I will post that, but more or less I’ll probably get the answer from some of the guys I know that train under him. One thing about Milos is he is an ass and I don’t even want to approach him. lol

DG

155

[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
How do you reverse distention?[/quote]

Don’t know, ask Ronnie Coleman, Dennis James, Silvio Samuel or even Dexter Jackson.

156

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Most anabolic steroids, growth hormone, some peptides, and insulin for one will cause distention. (I personally think it is due to the increase in igf, but I know very little and just started my research on that topic a few months ago)

distention is caused by the growth of internal organs, being that we have more igf receptors there would lead me to believe that this is the cause for distention. Like I said tho I don’t claim to know anything on that topic let alone be credited with any knowledge here.

I don’t know how to reverse it, but some guys that I know who had it really bad said that focusing on keeping the abs tight during all movements helped. Also I guess the vacuum pose has helped some as well.

I think that just as with anything in the body it tends to come back to normal after a while if certain practices are stopped.

All I know is that there is a LOT more people who train under milos or at his gym that do not have distention. If you talk to milos he is a person who strives for the vtaper and aesthetic physique.

All of the names that you listed had distention problems before coming to milos. I think it was due to everybody trying to mass up because of yates and coleman. Training, nutrition, and drug use will all play a role in a thick or distended waist.

I’m not saying milos is always right and that he can fix or make anybody better. I do know that he is not the cause for the distention in athletes.

I know this because I train there and from the people (some amateurs and pros) I know and talk to this is the case.

DG[/quote]

I disagree about the cause of distention, but I digress. I have made my case about the omentum on this forum.

I am not saying Milos is the cause, but I think his high glycemic cocktails could be a major cause/contributor.

Hmmm. No, all of those guys didn’t. I can’t speak for the rest of them, but I followed both Silvio and James after they left Milos and they both have made major improvements in this area. That is not to say he is a bad guy at all, or that he doesn’t have incredible talent and training knowledge.

157

[quote]chriscarani wrote:

Don’t know, ask Ronnie Coleman, Dennis James, Silvio Samuel or even Dexter Jackson.

[/quote]

If I could sit down and pick any one of those guy’s brains… I would. Trust me.

158

Cutler was so cocky in his pre Olympia interviews…
he basically guaranteed that 1st was locked down.

I would love to see one of these shows live, get a real appreciation as to how big these guys are

159

Finally, they get the shit right and the best looking physique actually wins.

Hopefully, like others have said this will be a changing of the gaurds for good…

160

[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
chriscarani wrote:

Don’t know, ask Ronnie Coleman, Dennis James, Silvio Samuel or even Dexter Jackson.

If I could sit down and pick any one of those guy’s brains… I would. Trust me.[/quote]

good luck finding ronnie’s.