[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that there is a reason why the guys at Westside don’t pull heavy from the floor on a regular basis?[/quote]
because the larger guys all pull several hundred pounds more then me.
edit: I know what your saying, but I am not nearly as strong as the westside guys, and that is why I didn’t use their template.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Did you ever stop to think that there is a reason why the guys at Westside don’t pull heavy from the floor on a regular basis?
because the larger guys all pull several hundred pounds more then me.[/quote]
Does that mean that a maximal pull is less stressful for you?
Remember, max effort is just that: maximal.
I dont think you really understand how what you are doing works, and its showing in how you are setting up your programming.
You are going to max out on squats one week, max out on box squats the next, and then max out on deadlift the next. Do you honestly think that is smart? Step back and look at your training and evaluate what has been working and what hasnt.
Youve been taking max or near-max pulls on a regular basis for several months and your training hasnt gone anywhere…and youre telling me that you need to keep doing what hasnt been working?
It would be one thing if you had some sort of set up where the ONLY maximal work you did was pulling heavy every third week, but thats not the case.
You have this mindset that “I MUST PULL HEAVY TO GET STRONGER” and its proving to be a major stumbling block for you. You dont have to pull heavy on a regular basis to get a stronger pull, and if that is the school of thought that you wish to subscribe to, then I would recommend finding a training system that agrees with you. Right now youre trying to put square pegs in round holes.
Remember how I said that it was all about context? This is no different. Frequent heavy pulling can work, but not in the context of the program that you are doing.
You are now wanting to do the same thing with the program that I outlined. Instead of making all parts of the program work synergistically, you are cutting and pasting bits and pieces of different shit together and in however many weeks, you are going to be in the exact same place you are now, stuck, spinning your wheels, and wondering why the hell your clusterfuck didnt work out for you.
The program I linked you to is a basic training program (not template, dont fuck with it) for the beginner-intermediate trainee. Detazathoth is making big gains with it and all of his raw lifts are 100 or so lbs higher than yours. It doesnt recommend frequent heavy pulling.
I wonder why? Probably because it doesnt fit into the context of that program…much in the same way it doesnt fit into the context of my program or even the context of what youre doing.
In case you are interested in what I am doing, here is my program for the next 12 or so weeks:
Monday- Maximal Effort Bench
Reverse Band Bench(floor press if no bands), #board, #board+chains
Dumbell Bench Press- 10 x4
Barbell Row- 8 x4
Lat Pulldown- 12 x3
Tuesday- Maximal Effort Squat
Free Squat, box squat, ssb box squat(gm’s if no ssb)
Speed Pull against bands(or chains) (bar weight=50%,55%,60% x 1 x8)
Glute-Ham Raise- 10 x3
Standing Abs- 10 x3
Thursday- Upper Body Assistance
Floor Press- 5 x5
Barbell Shoulder Press- 8 x4
Barbell Curl- 8 x4
Pushdowns- 12 x3
Lateral Raise- 15 x3
Friday- Lower Body Assistance
Romanian Deadlift- 5 x5
Front Squats or power squats- 12 x4
Glute-Ham Raise- 8 x4
Obliques- 10 x3
Reverse Curl w/Fat Bar- 15 x3
This is all in reps x sets
Stop spinning your wheels and basing your training on emotional compulsions.
Monday:
-ME squat/dl
-front squats
-good mornings
-glute hams/pull thrus
-leg ext
-weighted abs
Tuesday:
-DE bench
-high boards
-pullovers
-vertical pull variation
-rear delt flys
-gunz
Thursday:
-DE squat
-DE deadlift
-leg press
-glute hams
-suit case deads
Friday:
-heavy bench
-low boards
-shoulders
-rows
ME lower:(one week) box squat w/ chains, back squat, deadlift with chains
ME upper (three week rotation):
inclines, flat bench, low block press with chains
Dynamic work:
squats:
Week 1 (70 %): 8x2 @ 235 lbs + 60 lbs of chains at top
Week 2 (73 %): 8x2 @ 245 lbs + 60 lbs of chains at top
Week 3 (75 %): 8x2 @ 250 lbs + 60 lbs of chains at top
Deads:
225+chains 8x1
Bench:
Chains: 8x3 @ 135 lbs + 40 lbs of chains at top (one 5/8")
This is it, I’m not changing it till I try it. I need to get rid of the indecision and start fucking trucking.
SH, you’re right.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
SH, you’re right.[/quote]
Then why are you still maxing out on deadlift every third week?
Hey wait a minute, that 9 week basic training program is the same program I’m doing right now!
Whoa, what a strange way of going about things Stronghold.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
SH, you’re right.
Then why are you still maxing out on deadlift every third week?[/quote]
because every third week is not that frequent.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
In case you are interested in what I am doing, here is my program for the next 12 or so weeks:
Monday- Maximal Effort Bench
Reverse Band Bench(floor press if no bands), #board, #board+chains
Dumbell Bench Press- 10 x4
Barbell Row- 8 x4
Lat Pulldown- 12 x3
Tuesday- Maximal Effort Squat
Free Squat, box squat, ssb box squat(gm’s if no ssb)
Speed Pull against bands(or chains) (bar weight=50%,55%,60% x 1 x8)
Glute-Ham Raise- 10 x3
Standing Abs- 10 x3
Thursday- Upper Body Assistance
Floor Press- 5 x5
Barbell Shoulder Press- 8 x4
Barbell Curl- 8 x4
Pushdowns- 12 x3
Lateral Raise- 15 x3
Friday- Lower Body Assistance
Romanian Deadlift- 5 x5
Front Squats or power squats- 12 x4
Glute-Ham Raise- 8 x4
Obliques- 10 x3
Reverse Curl w/Fat Bar- 15 x3
This is all in reps x sets
Stop spinning your wheels and basing your training on emotional compulsions.[/quote]
Hmm…that program sounds familiar…
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
edit: I know what your saying, but I am not nearly as strong as the westside guys, and that is why I didn’t use their template.[/quote]
You did use their template, you just added a bunch of counterproductive shit to it.
The 9 week basic training program is written for beginners and intermediates. Do that. Make gains. Thank me later.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
because every third week is not that frequent.[/quote]
Yes. It. Is.
Context context context context. You havent been reading my posts and if you have, then youve been reading selectively.
You are maxing out twice a week on something with a system like this. The idea is to find the most productive exercises that have the least impact on your recovery ability. Deadlifting every third week when you are maxing out on some other lower body lifts on weeks one and two.
Want to pull every third week? Fine. Go ahead and keep doing what youve been doing and keep not making progress. I tried to help you but you dont seem to want to listen.
I’m trying to remember the last time I pulled over 60% of my 1RM on my deadlift.
God, I have such a bad memory.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
I’m trying to remember the last time I pulled over 60% of my 1RM on my deadlift.
God, I have such a bad memory.[/quote]
October at the SC Champs.
…starting to get an idea of what kind of frequency you should be pulling heavy with?
Heavy Good Mornings and speed deads are really all it takes to keep the deadlift moving. If you can move 55-60% of your max FAST on speed deads I can almost guarantee your max will increase.
If you like pulling heavy frequently take a look at what Brad Gillingham does (his DVD is on Elitefts). He almost exclusively does sets of 5 for squats, varying intensity, and a lot of heavy rack pulls.
Getting stronger on just about anything should improve the deadlift, strong on squats, good mornings, (faster) on speed deads, power cleans, t-bar rows, strict barbell rows. But the great thing about speed deads is they keep your deadlift groove without killing your CNS.
I think you are making things a little complicated dude. When you are pulling 425lbs you dont need bands or chains you just need to keep pulling.
Like people have suggested find some assistance lifts that build your dead and work them. Also dont max out every 3 weeks. If you want to pull heavy frequently then maybe every 5-6 weeks would be better. Ive fallen into the trap of trying to max too often numerous times, its frustrating and a waste fo time.
Personally heavy rack pulls and getting in some decent work at lower % of my max has always been the key to increasing my pull. For instance im currently doing the following (1rm 230kg right now, although I think I have a little more in me)
week1
155kg 5 x 3, 120kg 3 x 3
week2
170kg 5 x 3, 130kg 3 x 3
week 3
190kg 3 x 3, 140kg 3 x 3
week4
205kg x 2, 120kg 3 x 3
week5
220kg x 2-3 ME.
If I dont feel right for a ME pull on week 5 I ll take another week at around 90%.
[quote]Dave284 wrote:
I think you are making things a little complicated dude. When you are pulling 425lbs you dont need bands or chains you just need to keep pulling.
Like people have suggested find some assistance lifts that build your dead and work them. Also dont max out every 3 weeks. If you want to pull heavy frequently then maybe every 5-6 weeks would be better. Ive fallen into the trap of trying to max too often numerous times, its frustrating and a waste fo time.
Personally heavy rack pulls and getting in some decent work at lower % of my max has always been the key to increasing my pull. For instance im currently doing the following (1rm 230kg right now, although I think I have a little more in me)
week1
155kg 5 x 3, 120kg 3 x 3
week2
170kg 5 x 3, 130kg 3 x 3
week 3
190kg 3 x 3, 140kg 3 x 3
week4
205kg x 2, 120kg 3 x 3
week5
220kg x 2-3 ME.
If I dont feel right for a ME pull on week 5 I ll take another week at around 90%.[/quote]
This is good advice, but dont go trying to sandwich this into your current program. While its good advice, I dont think its good for what youre wanting to do (westside-style program).
I dont think you are ready to be designing your own training yet…maybe Dave can provide an example as to what the rest of his training looks like while he is doing this deadlift cycle? Im almost certain he wont be maxing out on a bench movement every week, maxing out on a squat movement every week, and then doing shit tons of heavy assistance work in addition to all of that.
So Dave…whats the rest of the training look like?
My log on here:
I didnt update it for about 3 months at the end of the summer but Im putting everything up there again now.
Right now my training looks like:
Bench/ME Upper (planned weights for this cycle in brackets)
Bench (100kg 5 x 5, 110kg 5 x 5, 120kg 5 x 3, 130kg 2 x 2 , 140kg x 1)
Floor press
DB row
Pulldown
Facepull
Deadlift
Deadlift (outlined already, pulling 190kg 3 x 2 tomorrow)
Blockpull
Rows
Face pull
Squat
Back squat (still planning, probably 130kg 5 x 5 & 110kg 3 x 3, 135kg 5 x 5 & 115kg 3 x 3, 140kg 5 x 3 & 120kg 3 x 3, 150kg 2 x 2 & 110kg 3 x 3, PR attempt 165-170kg)
RDL
Abs
Extra day of whatever I feel like, normally postural stuff, some recovery etc. Last time it was like
DB press
Dimmel deadlift
HS row
Reverse fly
Max out in each lift maybe once every 6 weeks. Going down to a single in the deadlift more often does not work for me.
Benching you might get away with 4 weeks, probably not much less.
The more time you take between PR attempts the bigger the PR, simple as that. Its better to keep it in your pants for an extra week and hit a PR than shoot your load and miss one!
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
I’m trying to remember the last time I pulled over 60% of my 1RM on my deadlift.
God, I have such a bad memory.
October at the SC Champs.
…starting to get an idea of what kind of frequency you should be pulling heavy with?[/quote]
Oh yeah, didn’t I puke 9 times, and lost like 5lbs, but I still managed to pull 505 the next morning?
Where the fuck are the recent posts?
Today sucked ass, my training partner’s didn’t show because they were to beat after the metallica show. Not only that, but some bastard finally took the last of the usable belts from the weightroom.
Today:
low box squat w/ med chains
135x3
185x3
225x3
belt+wraps
275x1
315x0
I had this for two last week with the 13mm belt. I lost my air at the bottom because of the shitty design of the POS belt I wore. The metal part that holds the ends together dug into my abs.
Front squats off pins:
135x5
155x5
175x3
185x3
195x1 baseline
205x1 PR
225x0
195x1
185 3x2
Lat pulldowns:
110x10
130x10
150x10
170x5
190x5
200x4
pull thrus
worked up to 150x8
olympic abs
30x15
50 2x10
these blow hard.
Some guy said “kid, you’re getting there” to me today. Made me feel good.
I think I may start doing all my lower body work beltless, because if I can’t use a good belt I might as well not use one at all.
olympic abs???
Maxed on two lifts in one session?
Mind explaining the logic here?
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Maxed on two lifts in one session?
Mind explaining the logic here?[/quote]
usually keep it at one and 3-8 reps on the front squats. I really, really, REALLY wanted to hit 2 plates
that and I felt cheated on the box squats because I lacked the same equipment.
I needed to pr on a squat movement.
[quote]mrodock wrote:
olympic abs???[/quote]
