You're Bulking?!?! *Gasp*

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:

Prof what would your recomendation be then.
What measurement and limit do you think should used so that I know I am not eating to get fat?

Oh and I apprceiate the patronizing repetition of “BMT”!

Helpful

NOTE: am 18!
[/quote]

My recommendation is that you stop listening to Waterbury. The man doesn’t follow bodybuilding or even care for it. That would be fine in and of itself if he didn’t insist on speaking on bodybuilding which causes newbies like yourself to think his advice is for those who really want to focus on building the most size AND strength.

You are advanced when you finally realize that your body does not work within whatever confines you try to place it in. Instead of working with your own genetics, many of you insist on trying to force your body to work against them.

Everyone can’t maintain 10% body fat and make optimal gains in muscle mass. Those who can should listen to their own bodies and make adjustments accordingly. Those who find they grow best with more body fat than that should accept that and keep building.

Instead, we get posters like you who are clearly beginners who think they can literally map out specifically how their body is going to respond before they ever actually work hard in the gym.

That is ass backwards. My advice is that you put the calculator away. Ignore anyone telling you that 3 days a week sounds great and simply get in the damn gym.

Quit trying to set up massive restrictions for your body to work within before you even see how your body responds to long term high intensity FREQUENT training.

There is a reason that Nike slogan “Just do it” has been around for so long. Athletes understand how much heart is involved. Most of you seem to think you can calculate the heart into your program. You can’t.

42

I completely understand what you say and agree though I feel that beginners need some sort of measureable factorthat guide what tey are doing. So that they are progressing in the rght way. And during this they can learn how their body reacts.

43

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
I completely understand what you say and agree though I feel that beginners need some sort of measureable factorthat guide what tey are doing. So that they are progressing in the rght way. And during this they can learn how their body reacts.

[/quote]

All a beginner needs is a basic workout skeleton and the advice to monitor whether what they are doing is actually causing an increase in strength and muscular body mass.

If you are the same weight today that you were 2 months ago, you have FAILED if the goal is to add muscle mass.

If you are gaining weight and aren’t gaining the strength or muscle to justify it, you have also FAILED.

This shit is NOT complicated, yet that hasn’t stopped some of you from acting as if you are soooo fucking intelligent that you have to show off what you’ve read. There is a reason it never took a PhD to get really fucking huge. That reason is because human biology is not so confined that someone can give you a bunch of hyper-specific rules and your body will simply “do as it’s told”.

The effort in the gym and at the kitchen table outweighs how many authors you can quote.

The sad thing is, most of the people who think they are so intelligent…are too stupid to figure out their own bodies quickly. That is why they are often the ones who, 15 years later, log in to tell us that they haven’t grown much.

No one gives a shit about your IQ in the gym.

Mind you, that is coming from someone who spent most of his life in school up to this point.

44

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
I completely understand what you say and agree though I feel that beginners need some sort of measureable factorthat guide what tey are doing. So that they are progressing in the rght way. And during this they can learn how their body reacts.

[/quote]

It’s very simple:

If you can increase either the weight or reps done with your last weight on your exercises every session, then you are progressing fine.

If you hit a plateau, then a) eat more and make sure you get enough sleep.
b) if that doesn’t help, drop exercise and do another one that hits the same primary muscle-group. Or do whatever else you like for plateau busting.

I will repost the routine I recommended to another beginner in another thread, within that quoted post you will also find info on how to perform your sets:

[quote]
If bbing (yes, even if you do not want to ever compete) is your goal, do something like this:

Day1 Chest+Tris
Day2 Back+Bis
Day3 Legs
Day4 Delts+traps+Abs
Day5 Off Day
Day6 Repeat

This’ll teach you to eat a ton, because if you don’t, you’ll burn out.
If you feel like shit, take a day off in between, if it happens a lot, eat more and make sure you get your sleep in.

Exercises (just a suggestion):

Chest+Tris

-Incline DB/BB Press

-Flat DB or Machine Press

(you could add flyes if you want, but imo not that important… Maybe do them to pump some blood into the muscle and that’s it)

-Close-Grip Press (If you get a gym membership, do these in the smith or powerrack and press against the smith/rack/towards your feet to get the tris more involved. Don’t do that if you press without rack/smith.
Hands shoulder width or slightly less, whatever’s comfortable for your wrists.)

-PJR Pullover’s or EZ Skullcrushers or some other extension where you can use some weight and that’s cool with your elbows.

-Pushdowns, whatever attachment you like. (more of a “get blood in” exercise, but you can also do it normally. Just leave 'em out when training at home.)

Back+Bis

-BTN Pulldowns to ear level onl, or Rack Chins, or Pullups/Chinups if you’re at home.

-One-Arm DB Rows or Low Cable Rows

-Rack Pulls (at the top of the movement, shrug BACKWARDS. Don’t do it during the movement.
You can do Deadlifts instead. (let’s not kid ourselves here, as a beginner with no one to show you how to deadlift properly, I don’t think floor deads should be in your split just now…)

  • Barbell Curls (if your wrists don’t like these, do EZ Curls)
  • Alternating DB Curls, or maybe Pinwheel Curls. All other’s are too difficult to progress on at your stage, imo… Wait till you’re stronger before you do them.

You don’t need 3 bi exercises as you already did rows and pulldowns.

Legs

-Leg Extensions if training at the gym, raise the angle so that you’re legs won’t go past a 90 degree bend (if you like your knees, that is)
Those mainly serve to warm you up… But try to progress on them, anyway.

-Squats or Leg Presses (watch this vid, that’s how you’re supposed to squat: http://www.youtube.com/...YojAPYILEo&NR=1 )

-Stiff-Legged Deads or Leg Curls

-Some Calf-Raise variation, you can do 1 or two exercises here… Make sure you get the stretch position right.

Delts+Traps+Abs

-Seated DB Overhead Presses

-DB Laterals or Machine laterals

-Bent-Over raises/ Face Pulls

-Shrugs (if you did Rack Deads on back+bi day, those may not be necessary… Just do them for a while and see how it goes.)

-Whatever you want to do for abs. Just make sure you progress on it, along with your other exercises. You can do 2 exercises here.

Ok, that’s it. You can alternate exercises (Do Incline DB Presses the one session, then do Incline Machine Presses the next… And go back and forth between the two. But you shouldn’t need to just yet. Remember that for later, makes progressing easier.)

If you stall on an exercise, first eat more. If that doesn’t help, do a different exercise for the same muscle-group. (i.e. BTN Presses to ear level instead of seated DB Presses… Or do Military Presses…).

You perform your sets in a pyramiding-up fashion. You warm up with light weight, 10-15 reps or so, then you increase the weight, do 8-10 reps, increase weight, 8-10 reps, increase weight again and do as many as you can (should be 7-10 or so).

Watch some youtube vids of pretty much any pro BB to see how they do it.
The last set is the one where you go all-out.

If your BB Curls look like this:
Bar12 (if the bar is too heavy for warm-up, use dumbells)
Bar+108
Bar+208
Bar+2510 ← this is your all-out set

You got 10 on your last set, so you can increase the weight next session.
So next session could be:
Bar12
Bar+108
Bar+208
Bar+307 ← all-out set

Ok, you only got 7, so next time don’t increase the weight, just try to get more reps till you can do 9-10. Then increase weight again.

Same formula for all exercises for now. On Squats and other big exercises, maybe do 5 or so total sets, i.e:

Bar15
Bar+more weight8-10
Bar+even more weight8-10
Bar+more weight again8-10
Bar+yet more weight * whatever you can do <-all-out set

Just make sure you always either progress by doing more reps and/or more weight on that last set of each exercise.

Ok, I think that’s all for now…

Avoid over-analyzing and reading 500 different articles which will only confuse you more.

You can do that once you’ve gained 50 pounds…

#Edit: Oh yeah, start doing your exercises with fairly strict form. You can start loosening up your form as you gain more experience and learn how to cheat properly. [/quote]

45

I forgot: Many prefer to train each muscle-group once a week, but do the weaker ones more often.

The workout I provided has a somewhat higher overall frequency, mainly because you are a complete beginner and also because you do not yet have any weak points (your whole body is small and weak, simple, don’t take offense btw).

If, despite eating lots (lots of protein, especially, and no, you don’t have to eat all clean, that’ll only hinder you…) and resting enough you find the frequency to be too high, just add in another off-day or so.

Once you get stronger, you may want to split the body up further, but you don’t need to worry about any of that stuff yet, a four-way split will be fine for now.

Don’t forget: Progression over time is what makes you big.
Without massive eating, that progression cannot take place (you can’t Close-Grip-Bench 300+ pounds for 10 or so reps without eating enough, it just doesn’t work.)

46

Fair PLay

That is it!!!

That is the rules of bulking

"If you are the same weight today that you were 2 months ago, you have FAILED if the goal is to add muscle mass.

If you are gaining weight and aren’t gaining the strength or muscle to justify it, you have also FAILED. "

It stops people from trying to creep up in weight while keeping abs and it stops people eating so much that there muscle increase and strength increase do no justify the massive weight increase of them getting fat.

Though I feel that strength (although te most important factor) is not the only factor in gaining muscle.

But still you have prety much written the guidlines that everyone should follow there.

Nice one!

47

I have to say the Prof is right on the money here with his last few posts. I’d like to also quote something from “Lost training tips” by Dr Ellington. This was an old school way of measuring if you’re getting fatter or growing muscle

"1. You Can’t Flex Fat!

Before skinfold caliper measurements, underwater weighings, and electrical impedance readings became popular to determine percentage of body fat, old timers had an interesting way to check their leanness. The test involved keeping a periodic record of the differences between the relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements.

Before a workout and using a plastic tape, here’s what they’d do:

  1. Relax the arm and measure the circumference midway between the elbow and tip of the shoulder with the arm hanging away from the body. Record the number to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.

  2. Flex the arm and measure it at right angles to the bone around the largest part of the contracted biceps with the upper arm parallel to the floor. Record the contracted arm to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.

  3. Determine the difference between the relaxed and contracted measurements.

If you’re trying to get leaner, or just out of curiosity, you should apply the same guidelines to your arm. Over several weeks, if you’re getting leaner, the differences between your relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements will get greater. If you’re getting fatter, the differences between the two will get smaller.

The reason one goes up and the other goes down is the fact that… you can’t flex fat! Only muscle contains contractile tissue.

Most of your noncontractile fat is stored directly under your skin, with thicker layers around your hips and midsection. When your percentage of fat is reduced, it’s reduced to a greater or lesser degree from all over your body.

Having 1-1/2 inches between the two measurements puts you at the approximate 10% level of body fat. A greater number is exceptional. The largest difference I’ve ever measured was on the arm of Casey Viator, who won the 1971 AAU Mr. America. Casey’s right arm was 17-1/8 inches relaxed and 19-5/16 inches contracted �?? which amounted to 2-1/4 inches between the two numbers.

His body fat was 3%. When Viator raised his arms and contracted them, his biceps and triceps seemed to explode �?? which is no exaggeration. "

Out of interest Prof, have you tried this?

48

[quote]Intersweat wrote:
I have to say the Prof is right on the money here with his last few posts. I’d like to also quote something from “Lost training tips” by Dr Ellington. This was an old school way of measuring if you’re getting fatter or growing muscle

"1. You Can’t Flex Fat!

Before skinfold caliper measurements, underwater weighings, and electrical impedance readings became popular to determine percentage of body fat, old timers had an interesting way to check their leanness. The test involved keeping a periodic record of the differences between the relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements.

Before a workout and using a plastic tape, here’s what they’d do:

  1. Relax the arm and measure the circumference midway between the elbow and tip of the shoulder with the arm hanging away from the body. Record the number to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.

  2. Flex the arm and measure it at right angles to the bone around the largest part of the contracted biceps with the upper arm parallel to the floor. Record the contracted arm to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.

  3. Determine the difference between the relaxed and contracted measurements.

If you’re trying to get leaner, or just out of curiosity, you should apply the same guidelines to your arm. Over several weeks, if you’re getting leaner, the differences between your relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements will get greater. If you’re getting fatter, the differences between the two will get smaller.

The reason one goes up and the other goes down is the fact that… you can’t flex fat! Only muscle contains contractile tissue.

Most of your noncontractile fat is stored directly under your skin, with thicker layers around your hips and midsection. When your percentage of fat is reduced, it’s reduced to a greater or lesser degree from all over your body.

Having 1-1/2 inches between the two measurements puts you at the approximate 10% level of body fat. A greater number is exceptional. The largest difference I’ve ever measured was on the arm of Casey Viator, who won the 1971 AAU Mr. America. Casey’s right arm was 17-1/8 inches relaxed and 19-5/16 inches contracted �?? which amounted to 2-1/4 inches between the two numbers.

His body fat was 3%. When Viator raised his arms and contracted them, his biceps and triceps seemed to explode �?? which is no exaggeration. "

Out of interest Prof, have you tried this?[/quote]

Er, I only have a one inch difference, even at 18-20 percent bf…
It stays pretty much the same all the way to around 10 percent… (haven’t been much leaner than that, yet)

I store fat mostly around the gut and lower back/obliques…
So, at 18-20%bf I can still see the line between the long head of my tris and my inner bi head in a front double-bi pose.

Also, I have long bis with not too much peak, kinda like levrone (just not as great, haha), and those two measurements will likely never differ all that much.

Imo while this Suggestion sounds good at first, it is a) overthinking
and b) too individual…

If you’re not satisfied with your leanness during a bulk, add some cardio and/or eat slightly less carbs. Make small adjustments and see how it goes.

Ultimately, if those adjustments make your strength-gains plateau, you’ve done it wrong (or you have an unrealistic expectation of how lean one should/can be while bulking).

49

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Bodybuilding…it isn’t for everyone.[/quote]

someone make a demotivator

50

[quote]Intersweat wrote:
I have to say the Prof is right on the money here with his last few posts. I’d like to also quote something from “Lost training tips” by Dr Ellington. This was an old school way of measuring if you’re getting fatter or growing muscle

"1. You Can’t Flex Fat!

Before skinfold caliper measurements, underwater weighings, and electrical impedance readings became popular to determine percentage of body fat, old timers had an interesting way to check their leanness. The test involved keeping a periodic record of the differences between the relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements.

Before a workout and using a plastic tape, here’s what they’d do:

  1. Relax the arm and measure the circumference midway between the elbow and tip of the shoulder with the arm hanging away from the body. Record the number to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.

  2. Flex the arm and measure it at right angles to the bone around the largest part of the contracted biceps with the upper arm parallel to the floor. Record the contracted arm to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.

  3. Determine the difference between the relaxed and contracted measurements.

If you’re trying to get leaner, or just out of curiosity, you should apply the same guidelines to your arm. Over several weeks, if you’re getting leaner, the differences between your relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements will get greater. If you’re getting fatter, the differences between the two will get smaller.

The reason one goes up and the other goes down is the fact that… you can’t flex fat! Only muscle contains contractile tissue.

Most of your noncontractile fat is stored directly under your skin, with thicker layers around your hips and midsection. When your percentage of fat is reduced, it’s reduced to a greater or lesser degree from all over your body.

Having 1-1/2 inches between the two measurements puts you at the approximate 10% level of body fat. A greater number is exceptional. The largest difference I’ve ever measured was on the arm of Casey Viator, who won the 1971 AAU Mr. America. Casey’s right arm was 17-1/8 inches relaxed and 19-5/16 inches contracted �?? which amounted to 2-1/4 inches between the two numbers.

His body fat was 3%. When Viator raised his arms and contracted them, his biceps and triceps seemed to explode �?? which is no exaggeration. "

Out of interest Prof, have you tried this?[/quote]

We’ve been through this already. That is a load of bullshit.

Period.

51
  1. My profile hasn’t been updated since Febrarury.
  2. I am farther along than you and was just trying to help.

It seems you have a decent grasp on things now. Try to lift more weight each week.

Good luck.

[quote]Phoenix Theory wrote:
You are making this waist increasing thing seem like I am goingto get fat in about an hour. That is 1/8th of an inch in 2 weeks, obviously measured at the same time of the same day.

This arbitary numbr was recomened by Chad Werbury in his muscle revolution book, with the a reletivly same recommmendation from one o the bodybuilders at AnimalPak.

But I supppose I should take the advice of someone he is 172lbs then. INstead of the big mother truckers that I wanna be like.

Oh and “MR POPOULAR” Help or shut the fuck up![/quote]

52

Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.

53

[quote]Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.[/quote]

No one here is recommending obesity. You are as lost as the guys who think they will get 20" arms by staying at 6% body fat.

54

[quote]Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say “obese” (bit too extreme)… More like “smooth” and in some instances “with a bit of a belly”.

55

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.

No one here is recommending obesity. You are as lost as the guys who think they will get 20" arms by staying at 6% body fat.[/quote]

I could swear that English is not his first language, I think he just doesn’t know a better word. Happens to me too, on occasion.

And sorry if I’m completely wrong with this, that was just the impression I got.

56

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.

I wouldn’t say “obese” (bit too extreme)… More like “smooth” and in some instances “with a bit of a belly”.

[/quote]

…which does NOT need a specific number assigned.

This is subjective, but if your belly is literally hanging over your pants, bulking up may not be for you.

However, if you simply can’t see your abs and the overall goal is to be really muscular, get your ass in the gym and train AND eat to gain.

57

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.

No one here is recommending obesity. You are as lost as the guys who think they will get 20" arms by staying at 6% body fat.

I could swear that English is not his first language, I think he just doesn’t know a better word. Happens to me too, on occasion.

And sorry if I’m completely wrong with this, that was just the impression I got.[/quote]

It was my interpretation as well, however, I am the one who will get labeled as telling newbies to get fat as hell.

It happens on this site ALL of the time even though I have never written anything like that.

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.

No one here is recommending obesity. You are as lost as the guys who think they will get 20" arms by staying at 6% body fat.[/quote]

I am not recommending the op become obesity. I am saying, you must accpet the concurrent sacrifices to be get huge.

If that means get fat, then so be it. But learn, that you cannot saty ultra lean in order tohhave like you put it, the 20" inch arms.

FOR ME, i must get obese to see large muscle gains… my body just works inneficiently. The original poster may not. But he cannot stay lean forever.

59

Why would someone need to get obese to gain muscle?

If you’re eating quality food, training hard, sleeping well and supplementing sure you’ll put on a little bit of chub.
But, if you reach obesity you’re doing something wrong.

It’s really not that hard guys, trust me. I’m doing it now and going with about 1 lb/week of weight gain will lead you in the right direction.

60

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Alquemist wrote:
Bodybuilding is about sacrifice. You have to accept the genetics giuven to you… and make the most of them…

I have realized the fat I will need to become pretty obese in order to gain significant muscle mass… but this is a fact that remains in my minds, and I will not give up my dreams of hugeness.

If you really wnat it bad enough, you will get it, even if that measn becomeing obese.

No one here is recommending obesity. You are as lost as the guys who think they will get 20" arms by staying at 6% body fat.

I could swear that English is not his first language, I think he just doesn’t know a better word. Happens to me too, on occasion.

And sorry if I’m completely wrong with this, that was just the impression I got.

It was my interpretation as well, however, I am the one who will get labeled as telling newbies to get fat as hell.

It happens on this site ALL of the time even though I have never written anything like that.[/quote]

That’s just the lack of common sense and reading comprehension around here… It’s outright frightening at times, because no matter what one writes, people WILL not understand.

All that pretty much disqualifies them from bbing imo, seeing as this activity requires quite a bit of common sense…