Your Peri-Workout Nutrition Experiences

TrainForPain · October 15, 2013, 5:49pm

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
In my opinion its not the need of fuel that precipitates the use of periworkout nutrition. Rather, it is the oppurtunity to put select substances into the muscle (creatine, aminos, etc) and most importantly the anti-catabolic effects of insulin itself. Just like how foam rolling doesn’t seem too big of a deal until you are at the point to need it, periworkout nutrition may not seem like a big deal until you are scraping for a handful of lbs over a year, and anti-catabolism becomes a big part of holding on to that fraction of a lb each month. [/quote]

I can see this too. So maybe it’s like everything else, and is situation dependent.

infinite_shore · October 15, 2013, 6:32pm

How exactly do you know that “it” worked? The problem with anecdotal evidence is that in almost all cases things are hopelessly vague and not controlled.

But, let’s be practical here. How do you know that one nutritional strategy worked better than another? The most obvious is “energy” + pump during a training session. Both should easily be covered by a high carb diet without special peri-workout nutrition. Anybody really disagree with that?

Now, if you say the whole peri stuff lead to more hypertrophy than an iso-caloric (+macro-matched) whole food diet, then we really would need better evidence than just your word.

ryanbCXG · October 15, 2013, 9:08pm

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
You must not be reading everything I write. I said I gave it a try. I get better results and workouts without it. I also stated that until someone is at a very advanced level the difference will not be noticeable in terms of progress again my views and experiences.
[/quote]

I see you mentioned that some carbs did nothing for you, that’s all I really saw. But I mean, if you gave it a try, and it didn’t work… it didn’t work.

For me, my experience has been different.

I think the real points I wanted to get across:

these products are more than just another protein powder/protein source
the improved intra-set recovery benefit is where the real value is

If you’re just looking at it as a way to get in more protein, its kind of a waste. If you’re looking for a way to increase your performance during your workout sessions, I think it’s worth giving it a try.

Basically “don’t knock it until you’ve tried it”. I hate cliches, but that’s how I really feel about it.[/quote]

I have tried it and the only reason i did It was for better performance and gains. I got no ether so I have tired it, it didn’t work so I can say bad shit about it

I think a lot jump the gun on what their body can handle. A lot is mental about good workouts

gtl · October 15, 2013, 10:07pm

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]gtl wrote:
And we’re talking about foods around training. Whole eggs… not ideal.
[/quote]
Why not? You can’t have eggs an hour before you work out?[/quote]

You can, and those who preach the benefits of peri-WO nutrition do so. John Meadows eats fats in his pre-WO meal to slow digestion of carbs.

Plus, you can buy whole eggs and just use the whites pretty easily. So whole eggs or egg whites are in reality the same price lol[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the fat amount like 10g or so?

And you’re talking John Meadows, so lets look at organic free range eggs at $4.49/dozen then.

2 whole eggs (10g fat), 3 egg whites = 21g protein total = $1.87

Again, I’m still saying, the cost of 20g protein from a powder can be cheaper than whole foods.

Sutebun · October 15, 2013, 11:24pm

@Ryan

I’ve seen you mention before you have a diet very high in carbohydrates. Maybe this enables you to do the long, long, workouts in a fasted state? BTW, when do you typically train?

Infinite_Shore and others,

the point of the post wasn’t really to prove peri-workout nutrition does or doesn’t work. None of us are running scientific studies here and all we have is anecdotal experience, BUT, given a few details about a person’s type of training and their day-to-day nutrition, I think we can maybe find patterns in what people are suggesting worked and did not work for them.

And about whole food > all concept. Bullshit. Eat what works for you. I find if I try to take 200g of protein in a day through chicken I just don’t feel as good. I feel more lethargic through the whole day. If I take the same protein via whey or mostly whey and a little meat I feel much better. Also, for those who haven’t left the states, prices for meat can be ridiculous in other countries!

I think people need to stop with this “protein is only a supplement” thing too. No, it’s just a bunch of nutritional protein like meat. Labeling it as a supplement seems to give it “magic” properties. I’m sure we’ve all gotten that person in the gym who comes up to us and asks “Do I NEED to drink protein? Are you drinking protein?” Saying whey (or other protein) is a supplement for your protein is akin to saying that a milkshake is a supplement for your carbs and fats. They are just another avenue for your nutrients. If we are talking about peri-workout or using protein because of fast acting properties, then it falls more into the supplemental category, but drinking a shake during the day time is just another “meal”.

Sutebun · October 15, 2013, 11:27pm

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]gtl wrote:
And we’re talking about foods around training. Whole eggs… not ideal.
[/quote]
Why not? You can’t have eggs an hour before you work out?[/quote]

You can, and those who preach the benefits of peri-WO nutrition do so. John Meadows eats fats in his pre-WO meal to slow digestion of carbs.

Plus, you can buy whole eggs and just use the whites pretty easily. So whole eggs or egg whites are in reality the same price lol[/quote]

His pre-wo meal calls for about 5-8g of fat as posted here before and the purpose is to stop your body from going hypo from high gi carbs.

So saying JM suggests fats and that eggS would probably be ok is a misrepresentation of his stance.

ryanbCXG · October 16, 2013, 12:11am

I do non panting cardio every morning and some 1-2 hiit sessions a week and then train around 1-3 as a start time.

anon23385723 · October 16, 2013, 5:19am

[quote]Sutebun wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]gtl wrote:
And we’re talking about foods around training. Whole eggs… not ideal.
[/quote]
Why not? You can’t have eggs an hour before you work out?[/quote]

You can, and those who preach the benefits of peri-WO nutrition do so. John Meadows eats fats in his pre-WO meal to slow digestion of carbs.

Plus, you can buy whole eggs and just use the whites pretty easily. So whole eggs or egg whites are in reality the same price lol[/quote]

His pre-wo meal calls for about 5-8g of fat as posted here before and the purpose is to stop your body from going hypo from high gi carbs.

So saying JM suggests fats and that eggS would probably be ok is a misrepresentation of his stance.
[/quote]

Way to disregard my 2nd point of either way eggs vs egg whites being roughly the same cost. All I was saying was eating fats in your pre-WO meal isn’t inherently bad. If your pre-WO meal had 3 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, and some oats, it would be right around 10g of fat. 5g of fat either way isn’t going to effect much. Don’t misrepresent my stance as if I said Meadows recommends half a dozen whole eggs pre-WO.

Some people like Ben Pak and Keifer eat only P + F and find that his ‘optimal’ pre-WO. The point many were trying to make is that whole foods can be used effectively peri-WO as well. I do agree with a poster above, though, that gram per gram protein powder can be cheaper then whole foods, though usually that’s just basic whey, not hydrosolates and stuff.

Sutebun · October 16, 2013, 2:56pm

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Sutebun wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]gtl wrote:
And we’re talking about foods around training. Whole eggs… not ideal.
[/quote]
Why not? You can’t have eggs an hour before you work out?[/quote]

You can, and those who preach the benefits of peri-WO nutrition do so. John Meadows eats fats in his pre-WO meal to slow digestion of carbs.

Plus, you can buy whole eggs and just use the whites pretty easily. So whole eggs or egg whites are in reality the same price lol[/quote]

His pre-wo meal calls for about 5-8g of fat as posted here before and the purpose is to stop your body from going hypo from high gi carbs.

So saying JM suggests fats and that eggS would probably be ok is a misrepresentation of his stance.
[/quote]

Way to disregard my 2nd point of either way eggs vs egg whites being roughly the same cost. All I was saying was eating fats in your pre-WO meal isn’t inherently bad. If your pre-WO meal had 3 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, and some oats, it would be right around 10g of fat. 5g of fat either way isn’t going to effect much. Don’t misrepresent my stance as if I said Meadows recommends half a dozen whole eggs pre-WO.
[/quote]

Yeah that’s correct. About the half-dozen, that’s the way it came across to me when I read it. Probably due to never eating less than 4 whole eggs at a time haha,

anon23385723 · October 16, 2013, 3:36pm

[quote]Sutebun wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]Sutebun wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]gtl wrote:
And we’re talking about foods around training. Whole eggs… not ideal.
[/quote]
Why not? You can’t have eggs an hour before you work out?[/quote]

You can, and those who preach the benefits of peri-WO nutrition do so. John Meadows eats fats in his pre-WO meal to slow digestion of carbs.

Plus, you can buy whole eggs and just use the whites pretty easily. So whole eggs or egg whites are in reality the same price lol[/quote]

His pre-wo meal calls for about 5-8g of fat as posted here before and the purpose is to stop your body from going hypo from high gi carbs.

So saying JM suggests fats and that eggS would probably be ok is a misrepresentation of his stance.
[/quote]

Way to disregard my 2nd point of either way eggs vs egg whites being roughly the same cost. All I was saying was eating fats in your pre-WO meal isn’t inherently bad. If your pre-WO meal had 3 egg whites, 2 whole eggs, and some oats, it would be right around 10g of fat. 5g of fat either way isn’t going to effect much. Don’t misrepresent my stance as if I said Meadows recommends half a dozen whole eggs pre-WO.
[/quote]

Yeah that’s correct. About the half-dozen, that’s the way it came across to me when I read it. Probably due to never eating less than 4 whole eggs at a time haha,
[/quote]

Fair enough. lol. I personally eat a hefty amount of fats pre-WO, sans carbs, as I’ve found a CBL strategy to be very effective for me and my goals, so I will admit I may be bias. lol

Aragorn · October 17, 2013, 3:53am

[quote]crazyj23 wrote:
I wrote my reply before you edited yours.

My point is, I wonder if all the people jumping on the peri nutrition thing have ever tried eating the right food at the right times which I guess is peri nutrition, before buying supplements.[/quote]

I don’t know about others, but yes for me. and I’m not going back to whole foods only. not in a million years, not unless I’m dead or in the wilderness.

Aragorn · October 17, 2013, 4:09am

[quote]TrainForPain wrote:

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
In my opinion its not the need of fuel that precipitates the use of periworkout nutrition. Rather, it is the oppurtunity to put select substances into the muscle (creatine, aminos, etc) and most importantly the anti-catabolic effects of insulin itself. Just like how foam rolling doesn’t seem too big of a deal until you are at the point to need it, periworkout nutrition may not seem like a big deal until you are scraping for a handful of lbs over a year, and anti-catabolism becomes a big part of holding on to that fraction of a lb each month. [/quote]

I can see this too. So maybe it’s like everything else, and is situation dependent.[/quote]

I completely agree with this! (and c.m.l. above you too, naturally). Alan Aragon and I had this discussion a couple years ago over lunch actually. For the majority of the people that go to the gym and jog for 30 minutes it won’t matter a bit. For those who go in and half ass it, it won’t matter a bit because theyre not training hard. However, for people training multiple times a day, or for elites, or for people needing even a small edge, it 100% matters imo. Alan basically agreed, and we sort of had a moment lol. His target audience is different than my goals, that’s all.for 100% of the clients I have convinced to go on it (including among them 2 mma fighters, one nationally competitive, and one medical doc) it has worked, big time, in terms of recovery boost, soreness, and performance in the workouts. They all notice the differencd if they come in and have forgotten their peri. For myself as well. I notice a gigantic difference in performance levels and subsequent soreness levels.

Sutebun · October 17, 2013, 10:18am

[quote]zraw wrote:
If you can copy/paste that post I can/could comment back on it as I dont remember which post you are refering to or what it contained lol

I can give an update view/review :)[/quote]

Took a bit of searching but found it! Reading Zraws take is what gave me the idea to start this post.

QUOTE ZRAW:

I did a lot of testing tbh

Tried

Gatorade powder + bcaa
Vitargo + Bcaa
Karboload (rice,oat, corn starches) + bcaa
Karbo + casein hydro

AND

CASEIN HYDRO did not feel the same as BCAA

Karbo/vitargo didnt feel the same as gatorade
Vitargo gave the less bloat feeling
I will try vitargo casein hydro soon

Zraw, you’ve made intras using both Peptopro and regular casein hydro correct? Which do you prefer? Regular hydrolysates can be purchased fairly cheap, but the Peptopro stuff costs an arm and a leg. Also any opinion of your own on how whey hydrolysate compares?

howie424 · October 17, 2013, 12:50pm

[quote]Myosin wrote:

[quote]howie424 wrote:
I will never stop using SWF, but MAG-10 I will definitely have a break from once winter comes. [/quote]

Interested in your thought process with this. Do you train less in the winter, tend to eat more real foods, big schedule change or what?

Also, please share your opinion on MAG-10, much appreciate![/quote]

I will train a lot less this Winter. I won’t be doing another BJJ tournament until late next Spring so this time period will serve as an “off season” so to speak. I will still be pushing the weights, but at a much slower pace.

My work schedule will also change drastically, so again I won’t be training as frequently. Most likely 5-6 sessions a week as opposed to training everyday, often twice a day.

And of course, it’s nice to have a break from MAG-10 from a financial point of view. It does get expensive, so when I don’t need it, I don’t use it.

I think that MAG-10 is an incredible product. The past week or so I have experimented with only 2 or so pulses a day, with more whole foods. Training twice a day, my recovery has been down and sleep quality has been down as well. I will be back to 4 pulses a day until tournament time is over. This is NOT a knock on whole foods, but with plenty of whole foods AND MAG-10, recovery is just second to none.

I have experimented with various timing of MAG-10. I just recently started using it pre-workout with my normal pre-workout meal. Have noticed nothing significant. I think the best way to use this product is throughout the day. FOR ME, the optimal way to use it is:

Meal
SWF
Pulse
Pulse
Meal (optional)
Pulse
Pulse
SWF
Meal

This is very convenient as I am not hauling food around throughout the day, just throwing a couple shaker bottles in my backpack and slamming them when needed. Sometimes that middle meal doesn’t happen, just depends on where I am working on any given day.

So this is my take on MAG-10. I can probably ramble on some more.

Myosin · October 17, 2013, 2:35pm

[quote]howie424 wrote: