[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
[quote]Kerley wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I eat whatever I want pretty much (no unnecessary sugar) and I stay lean. Am I doing a clean bulk or a dirty bulk? Someone please explain it to me.[/quote]
STEROIDS!!![/quote]
You have opened up a can of shit worms my friend.[/quote]
Ya but Kerley’s pretty gangster like that!
[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
[quote]Kerley wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I eat whatever I want pretty much (no unnecessary sugar) and I stay lean. Am I doing a clean bulk or a dirty bulk? Someone please explain it to me.[/quote]
STEROIDS!!![/quote]
You have opened up a can of shit worms my friend.[/quote]
Your sarcasm detector is broken.
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
[quote]Hazzyhazz24 wrote:
[quote]Kerley wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I eat whatever I want pretty much (no unnecessary sugar) and I stay lean. Am I doing a clean bulk or a dirty bulk? Someone please explain it to me.[/quote]
STEROIDS!!![/quote]
You have opened up a can of shit worms my friend.[/quote]
Ya but Kerley’s pretty gangster like that![/quote]
IZZZZZ GANGSTAAAA!
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I’ve been training for more then a year now, and I managed to go from 140 to about 210 now, while maintaining my abs the whole time. Now, I did get some many “love handles” and my abs weren’t as defined and deep as they were when i was skinny cross country runner, but i definatly kept a full 6-pack through out. Am I big? noway. I’m 6’3", so 210 doesnt look massove on my lanky frame. but by getting about 1.5 grams per lbs of protein, and keeping carbs in early in the day and around workouts, i think I did as clean a bulk I could have done, even though it wasn’t my intention[/quote]
Guy, at 6’3", you should be EASILY walking around at over 220lbs with minimal effort assuming you actually eat enough to support it.
Look, it amazes me that people are still this confused on this issue. Your goal in the gym is to work ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN GENETICS AND RESULTS, not anyone else’s. I doubt even two other people on this forum have the genetics to match kingbeef as far as being able to gain muscle while staying that lean (further, he may eventually find that to get much bigger than he is will require him to allow more fat gain as well because reaching 200-210 is NOTHING like reaching upwards of 225-230). You would have to be a freaking idiot to keep eating focusing only on how lean you are instead of focusing on whether eating that way is actually allowing you to make gains well above average.
That means, once again, that the goal is not to win some contest as far as who ate the cleanest. the goal is to work in whatever way your genetics dictate that allows you to make the most muscle gains while keeping body fat under some sort of control.
That means yes, the average newbie who jumps into this assuming everyone needs to try to stay under “10% body fat” as they gain is FLAT OUT FUCKING WRONG. Some can get away with that. It doesn’t mean YOU can.
Further, if you are still skinny or are so tall that you “200lbs” still leaves you looking malnourished…please stop responding to posts like this thread as if you already got big based on body weight alone.[/quote]
Thank you. I have noticed a lot of guys throw around “I am 200”, “I am 220”, “I am 240” etc.; like just WEIGHING that much means something. Depending upon your frame and proportions, you can look VERY different than a guy who weighs the same. I’m not even 5’8" and the lowest I would EVER go in bodyweight if I seriously cut was 220 and I actually prefer to stay in the 255 to 265 range (and have actually been up to 280), because, FOR ME, that is the size and stage at which I look most powerful and massive and am still able to do what I want to do athletically and physically.[/quote]
The thing is, even if these guys had the genetics, most will never get to that level where they can carry 250+lbs and look relatively lean while doing it because they literally FEAR any extra fat gain more than they have the MOTIVATION to gain that level of muscle mass.
You already know how heavy I’ve been before and I seriously doubt I want to be much under 250 again unless I am doing a show or something. That wouldn’t have happened eating like these guys do…yet they keep arguing…even though I haven’t seen any carrying that level of size yet.
I mean, just to ask…are ANY of the “must eat clean” guys carrying the size that Lewhitehurst is? Anywhere close?
Anyone matching Waylander by completely ignoring his advice?
I mean, every “must eat clean” guy in this thread with arms OVER 18" where you can actually see the biceps, please make yourselves known.
I just want to know what level you all are actually getting to.[/quote]
Guys, I never said I was big by any means. My goal currently is to try and reach 230 by then end of the year. My only point was that I went from 140 to 210 while staying lean. Thats what the OP wanted to know; the gains made by people who stayed ‘lean’. So I just was adding my 2 cents. but I never tried to give off the vibe that I’m huge or anything close. Just answering the OP’s question[/quote]
OK. My misunderstanding. At least you aren’t stopping at 210. 
You should be able to hit 230, no problem. i would say even 250 or 260 at your height.[/quote]
yes, currently my BIG goal is 270. But like i’ve said, I’ve never tried to ‘clean bulk’. I just have a crazy metabolism, plus i dont eat food that see carries no nutritional value (candy, potato chips, ect.) all I tried to get across was that a good deal of weight gain IS possible with little fat gain, though the biggest factors at play are probably genetic (height, metabolism, ect)[/quote]
Spidey,
I don’t think anyone is disputing a good deal of weight gain is possible with little fat gain. That IS the goal. I can only speak for myself, but I think what X, Bonez and I are trying to get across is that 99% of people have to put on some fat to make progress. Hell, I have grown off of eating once a day and actually put on weight when cutting (freaky genetics), but I still have to put on fat to gain appreciable size. We did go off on a tangent, but it was more of a preemptive reaction to all the guys who are not growing who are going to read about the one or two guys on here who can stay at 10% or lower and put on appreciable size and think that that applies to them.
I’m not sure what this thread is about, anymore. Am I not supposed to mention my weight because I’m so tall? Or should I pre-emptively state how tall I am before I mention how heavy I am?
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
yes, currently my BIG goal is 270. [/quote]
You probably won’t be satisfied when you get there. 
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’m not sure what this thread is about, anymore. Am I not supposed to mention my weight because I’m so tall? Or should I pre-emptively state how tall I am before I mention how heavy I am?
[/quote]
LOL. IDK. Just post pics along with the stats and refer guys to your hub, maybe.
I think some of us may just be worn down from all the crazy questions that pop up in the beginners forum, so we are hypersensitive.
serious question (for once) for the bigger guys, how much fat are we talking 15% or more?
[quote]Kerley wrote:
serious question (for once) for the bigger guys, how much fat are we talking 15% or more?[/quote]
IMO, whatever it takes without letting it get out of control. I think there is a different threshhold for everyone. Arbitrary numbers will do you no good.
This coming from one of the moderately bigger guys, I guess. ALTHOUGH I SHOULD STATE I’M 6’5".
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]Kerley wrote:
serious question (for once) for the bigger guys, how much fat are we talking 15% or more?[/quote]
IMO, whatever it takes without letting it get out of control. I think there is a different threshhold for everyone. Arbitrary numbers will do you no good.
This coming from one of the moderately bigger guys, I guess. ALTHOUGH I SHOULD STATE I’M 6’5".
;)[/quote]
hey i said bigger guys not taller.
Jk
[quote]Kerley wrote:
serious question (for once) for the bigger guys, how much fat are we talking 15% or more?[/quote]
Depends on the person, but I would hazard a guess to say “yes” for most people. 15% to %20, depending on how much mass you carry and how your body carries fat and muscle does not look nearly as bad as most people believe. It’s just that most people carry no appreciable muscle, so they have to be super lean to be noticeable and even then, most look small, scrawny and weak.
I look my best at about 15% to 20% and over 255. Hell, I even still have visible abs and most people could give a shit whether I have a little bellyfat going on.
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
[quote]Kerley wrote:
serious question (for once) for the bigger guys, how much fat are we talking 15% or more?[/quote]
Depends on the person, but I would hazard a guess to say “yes” for most people. 15% to %20, depending on how much mass you carry and how your body carries fat and muscle does not look nearly as bad as most people believe. It’s just that most people carry no appreciable muscle, so they have to be super lean to be noticeable and even then, most look small, scrawny and weak.
I look my best at about 15% to 20% and over 255. Hell, I even still have visible abs and most people could give a shit whether I have a little bellyfat going on.[/quote]
Same here. I doubt I am under 15% right now at all but people in the gym who are serious keep asking me WHY I am dieting down further because they think I look fine as it is right now.
The only people who seem to get off on calling me fat are the skinny dudes on this forum alone. No one else.
I get compliments on my appearance still when upwards of 15-18% and no one is talking shit about it…and while my abs may not be sharp in detail, you can still see the outline of them even when I was at my fattest a few months back.
The perspective of these guys needs to change because I really don’t think they understand that the more muscle you carry, the better you are going to look even at higher body fat percentages.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’m not sure what this thread is about, anymore. Am I not supposed to mention my weight because I’m so tall? Or should I pre-emptively state how tall I am before I mention how heavy I am?
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
yes, currently my BIG goal is 270. [/quote]
You probably won’t be satisfied when you get there. :/[/quote]
We are only making an issue about height because some of these newbs see “200lbs” and think they have accomplished the same as the rest of us even though they are like 6’6". Me at 200lbs is NOTHING like some guy who is that tall at 200lbs.
Someone 6’5" or taller won’t even look filled out until they get over 250. I mean, shit, we’ve done the whole thread in the past where we listed tall guys in football and basketball at certain weights. NONE of them looked really muscular until they got well over 250lbs.
Damn…
…how do you have visible abs at 15-20%?
I’d love to know the secret.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’m not sure what this thread is about, anymore. Am I not supposed to mention my weight because I’m so tall? Or should I pre-emptively state how tall I am before I mention how heavy I am?
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
yes, currently my BIG goal is 270. [/quote]
You probably won’t be satisfied when you get there. :/[/quote]
We are only making an issue about height because some of these newbs see “200lbs” and think they have accomplished the same as the rest of us even though they are like 6’6". Me at 200lbs is NOTHING like some guy who is that tall at 200lbs.
Someone 6’5" or taller won’t even look filled out until they get over 250. I mean, shit, we’ve done the whole thread in the past where we listed tall guys in football and basketball at certain weights. NONE of them looked really muscular until they got well over 250lbs.[/quote]
I agree, I’m 280 and I look pretty wide but not real thick. Obviously still a huge work in progress.
But it seems like going from 140-210 at any height should be regarded as some sort of an accomplishment, no?
And, if I may say so, I believe I completely pwned you in that thread.
Btw, have I mentioned I am really fucking tall? (mandatory disclaimer)
What some consider fat and lean seems all over the place.
For some it seems like being fat is being anything other than contest shape.
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Damn…
…how do you have visible abs at 15-20%?
I’d love to know the secret.[/quote]
Do you realize the level of muscle mass of someone damn near 300lbs who has no belly hanging out? Even if they are a little over 20%, you are talking about a shit load of muscle that most people won’t come close to. That is why it makes little sense to approach this as if your primary concern is how lean you are because you do NOT have that much time to make gains like that. Once you get past the age of 35, you can give up truly massive weight changes…or at least without a cost with regards to health.
If some 40 year old gains 50lbs, chances are his blood pressure will increase drastically. The same is much less likely to occur to someone who is under the age of 30.
I’ve already put my time in. I could go the rest of my life and not bulk up again and I would still be bigger than most people in the gym.
I mean, of course we are not saying that our stomachs look like the abs of someone who is truly below 10%, but hell, most people here are not becoming obese even if I may get the fattest out of most of the guys we are discussing.
It helped me get this big so there are no complaints…and the moment I see any of you “must eat clean” guys making the same progress, then I will stop laughing at all of them as they claim how well they are growing.
Picking one or two guys who have genetics better than 99% of the people here as examples of how to eat to grow makes little sense when the issue of how lean you are while gaining comes up.
It is an individual pursuit…and no one can tell you how YOU alone will need to eat to gain the most muscle in a given period of time.
[quote]Undertow wrote:
What some consider fat and lean seems all over the place.
For some it seems like being fat is being anything other than contest shape.[/quote]
Agreed…and this comes most often from people who are no where near big or in contest shape.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Undertow wrote:
What some consider fat and lean seems all over the place.
For some it seems like being fat is being anything other than contest shape.[/quote]
Agreed…and this comes most often from people who are no where near big or in contest shape.[/quote]
x2
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Spartiates wrote:
Damn…
…how do you have visible abs at 15-20%?
I’d love to know the secret.[/quote]
Do you realize the level of muscle mass of someone damn near 300lbs who has no belly hanging out? Even if they are a little over 20%, you are talking about a shit load of muscle that most people won’t come close to. That is why it makes little sense to approach this as if your primary concern is how lean you are because you do NOT have that much time to make gains like that. Once you get past the age of 35, you can give up truly massive weight changes…or at least without a cost with regards to health.[/quote]
I am far from tall, but you know from experience, at anything approaching 300 lbs, the first words anyone will say to you is “You’re huge!” And at that weight, your abs should be just as developed as the rest of you. What a lot of guys don’t realize is to get to that point your whole BODY grows, not just your showoff muscles so to speak. And once you hit that and hold it for awhile it isn’t anything to gain it back, thanks to muscle memory. I’m over 40, but since I did the work when I was younger I can easily put on 15 or 20 pounds of muscle in a few weeks because my body KNOWS what it can handle. Right now, I am staying under 250 for a physical agility test coming up, but once that is over and I find a decent place to lift, I think I am going to go back up to 265 to make a visual point to these guys about growth and bodyfat.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
(Generally) Once you get past the age of 35, you can give up truly massive weight changes…or at least without a cost with regards to health (generally).
If some 40 year old gains 50lbs, chances are his blood pressure will increase drastically (generally). The same is much less likely to occur to someone who is under the age of 30 (generally).
[/quote]
Just wanted to offer a few (general) edits to that post.
As an over 35 under 40 lifter, I’ve put on about 50 or so pounds in less than 2 years. While some may consider me obese, I’m ‘smooth’ but I can see vascularity in my arms/shoulders and just a hint of abzes. Legs, little fat.
My health has not been better in 10 years, this with the addition of 8-10 eggs + 1-2lbs of red meat daily. Of course, I average 5-6 days at the gym per week, and I’m not just fucking off.