I’m a bit heated myself. Mostly because guys on this site are always talking about what it is to be a man. Part of that is comporting yourself with dignity and respect for those who show it to you in turn. You don’t have to admit to being wrong, or even feel that you are but you can have a respectful exchange of ideas that isn’t always an argument. That’s my ideal that I strive for although I often fail to reach it. I don’t think others are even trying to hold themselves to the same standard.
Same old alpha bullshit.[/quote]
Hey hey hey! You capitalize that that shit! Alpha! Capital ‘A’! lol. I get what you’re saying, though. It’s like, heaven help you if you have a different opinion…one that you can actually back up based on experience and facts.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/quote]
Explain my shattered cheek bone and dislocated jaw. “Non-striking” my ass. After that, then explain all my muscle pulls and tears (from various ill delivered moves by my opponents), and my ripped ligaments in my fingers from getting them ripped out of joint. Explain to me the dozens of times I had my corneas scratched, or that time I had my shoulder dislocated because I was dropped wrong.
The only thing that reviles my wrestling injury list is my boxing list and my football list (in that order). If someone has zero injuries in 15 years, either he’s an anomaly, he hasn’t actually tried, or he’s lying to you.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/quote]
[/quote]
I agree with Ole about it being on a different level of physical risk, despite whose leg or neck was broken wrestling.
I disagree with Ole that it’s relevant. If a girl can compete with guys in UFC or boxing, and she wants to, she should be allowed to. The opponents of such a girl should take her on just the way they would any other opponent.[/quote]
[quote]Oleena wrote:
It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/quote]
[/quote]
I agree with Ole about it being on a different level of physical risk, despite whose leg or neck was broken wrestling.
I disagree with Ole that it’s relevant. If a girl can compete with guys in UFC or boxing, and she wants to, she should be allowed to. The opponents of such a girl should take her on just the way they would any other opponent.[/quote]
Okay, and we’ll see our first kill in UFC.[/quote]
depends on what you mean by ‘first’
“Total deaths in the ring for between the period of 1998 and now:
BOXING 70 deaths
MMA 1 Death”
"Let it also be noted that the one MMA death occurred in Russia to a man who had previous injuries and was said to have â??blacked outâ?? in trainings before the match in Russia.
Mixed Martial Arts has come along way since 1998. The rules have become increasingly more protective of the fighters. It also must be said that there have been a lot more boxing matches than MMA matches during this time period."
There’s a huge difference between taking a kidney/face shot and wrestling sports. I’m sorry, but they are nowhere close to the same thing as far as violence goes.
[/quote]
^This
Worst injury I ever got was a bloody nose/cuts on brow.
Second worst was an infection affecting a knee surgery scar.
Its his choice and all, but its not the choice I would make. Sounds to me like he was afraid of cooties.[/quote]
What team did you wrestle for, dude? I’ve seen plenty of injuries. Broken knee caps, collar bones, elbows, nose of course… There were all kinds of neck injuries. But then again, my HS had state champions in at least two weight classes each year I was there. In his office, my coach had a set of “brass balls” as a paper weight on his desk - the program was legit. I lost seven pounds in one practice at a bw of 135. People got hurt all the time.
[/quote]
Ah, the joy of losing 15-20 lbs 4-6 hours, shaving off all your hair (including your head), taking out your contacts, and standing on a scale buck ass nekkid cupping your balls and cock so that the “lady” judges and “female” wrestles don’t see your shit…all so you can make weight. The memories…I wish I could still wrestle, but you know Title fucking IX took that away from me, took a lot of sports away from guys at my school. The hilarious thing is that 4:1 is the ratio of girls to guys at my school, guys dominate in sports, not because we hog all the money. The girls are just there to get an education and a husband (which is fine), but we shouldn’t be penalized for this shit!
So, now I teach Greco-Roman at the local elementary and HS. At least there, it is Private so I can tell the girls to GTFO of my wrestling room.
[b][center]I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/center][/b][/quote]
[/quote]
I want to pair Olee’s statement with this video once again.
[/quote]
Are you comparing high school wrestling to eastern bloc wrestling?
I think the majority of those throws are illegal in high school wrestling. Having to do with the throwers knee touching the mat before the body of the throwee does.
And as a bad wrestler that got ragdolled like that from time time, including with some illegal throws, you shake it off.
Anyway I see both sides of the argument. I don’t think its clear cut night and day.[/quote]
WTF Eastern Block? You mean Greco-Roman? Yeah, not a lot of programs do it because of the “injuries” however unless you’re a little kid and you’re serious…the club teams do Grek, and even if you’re not on a club you can still enter Grek meets as an individual.
[b][center]I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/center][/b][/quote]
[/quote]
I want to pair Olee’s statement with this video once again.
[/quote]
You guys are missing the point. There’s no girls who can compete at the level in that video and no girls are trying too. In high school there are some girls who can compete and they should be allowed too.[/quote]
I don’t support any political crap, but if a girl can make a boys team on her own merit, I support it if thats what she wants especially if she has no girl team option. The girl I referenced was competing against the boy, maybe he sucked but I don’t think they made him wrestle just so there would be a fair match for the girl. He was a westler, she was a wrestle, they matched up even.[/quote]
So this begs the hypothetical field hockey/softball/cheerleading question…if a boy can make a girls team on his own merit, do you support it if that’s what he wants especially if he has no boy team option?[/quote]
No, but I think a boy should be able to go play for another school if his school doesn’t have the sport. It’s one thing for a girl with the rare ability to complete with the boys, but in a girls sport it’s going to be filled with average girls that have no chance against a boy with average ability.[/quote]
WTF? So, girls can join guys teams, if there is no girls teams (which there is in Iowa), but boys have to go to another school to join a team if their school doesn’t have one? That’s a little strange.
[b][center]I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/center][/b][/quote]
[/quote]
I want to pair Olee’s statement with this video once again.
[/quote]
Are you comparing high school wrestling to eastern bloc wrestling?
I think the majority of those throws are illegal in high school wrestling. Having to do with the throwers knee touching the mat before the body of the throwee does.
And as a bad wrestler that got ragdolled like that from time time, including with some illegal throws, you shake it off.
Anyway I see both sides of the argument. I don’t think its clear cut night and day.[/quote]
WTF Eastern Block? You mean Greco-Roman? Yeah, not a lot of programs do it because of the “injuries” however unless you’re a little kid and you’re serious…the club teams do Grek, and even if you’re not on a club you can still enter Grek meets as an individual.[/quote]
I admire you for working your way through the thread but the topic has been covered. Couldn’t identify the style as I never wrestled greco or free style but I knew those throws are illegal in high school.
I was just noting that these were athletes representing “eastern-bloc” countries like Bulgaria where the wrestling culture is perhaps a bit stronger.
I refer you to the following passage from the Iowa High School Athletic Association:
-2010-2011 HANDBOOK PAGE 7-
GIRLS PARTICIPATING IN BOYS SPORTS PROGRAMS
The Iowa High School Athletic Associationâ??s position on girls participating in boys sports programs is as
follows:
When a girl participates on some boyâ??s team, the following guidelines are recommended:
a. A meeting with the principal, athletic director, coach of the sport involved, the girl, and her parent(s).
b. The girl and her parent(s) should be informed that once she becomes a member of the team, she will be
treated like all other team members.
c. The coach should explain to the girl and her parent(s) exactly what will be expected in practice and games
so the girl and her parent(s) will have an understanding of a typical practice/game situation as it pertains to that sport.
d. The girl and her parent(s) should be informed that she will be provided with proper supervision and she
will have supervised dressing facilities.
If the young lady is planning on participating in football, she should be informed that football is an
aggressive contact sport. She should be informed of the risk of injury while playing football. She should be informed
football pads were not made to protect young ladies, as there is a great deal of contact on the front part of the body.
If the young lady is going to participate in wrestling, she should be informed of the various holds
and maneuvers used in wrestling, notably:
a. Wrestling is a sport which teaches techniques that involve grasping to restrain a wrestler through the crotch and
across the chest.
b. Competition and practice are often aggressive and physically demanding.
c. There is a risk of injury while participating in wrestling.
The principal should have a prepared statement that indicates a meeting took place, the date, who
was in attendance, a meeting outline, and have all parties sign the statement. This will serve as a record that a
meeting did take place and what transpired.
[b][center]I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/center][/b][/quote]
[/quote]
I want to pair Olee’s statement with this video once again.
[/quote]
You guys are missing the point. There’s no girls who can compete at the level in that video and no girls are trying too. In high school there are some girls who can compete and they should be allowed too.[/quote]
Wrestling is sport of weight classes there are a FINITE number of spots on a team. If she is incapable of going all the way, then all she is doing is WASTING everyone’s time and taking the spot of a boy who has a chance to go all the way. But everyone “feels good” that she got to play with the boys, right? Fucking bullshit.[/quote]
Even in my shit wrestling program you competed for your spot every week. Either it was an open spot or she won it fair and square. I imagine its that way all over.
Wrestling is a sport for the deef, blind, amputees, people with congenital birth defects and women. I cannot fathom why this angers you.
And talking about torn eyelids and broken knee caps. Seriously if that shit doesn’t happen to blind dudes at a rate that makes it too dangerous for them why can’t a girl roll?
Now if a guy has to throw away his dreams of a state championship cause he won’t wrestle a woman, a black guy, a homosexual, or an amputee or a blind guy, thems the breaks of personal integrity I guess.
And no, dudes shouldn’t compete on girls teams. Its a logical fallacy that one implies the other.
^ A man will usually have an unfair competitive advantage in a women’s league. A woman will not in the reverse situation.
Now which of you paternalistic condescending misogynists is gonna give an inch on this one?[/quote]
What about equality? Who are you to try and force boy’s who if raised right has been told not to hurt ladies turn around and expect them to slam them to the mat.[/quote]
Please read my fourth paragraph.
Also, as shit a wrestler I was, I am confident in my ability to not only beat a girl, but to beat her gently.
I could quick pin her, I could tech fall her on points with take down and release.
[/quote]
So could I, but if I hurt boys (or men, whatever you want to call them, who had been wrestling for 5-10-15 years) on a weekly basis in meets, what do you think is going to happen to a female? Because, if I wrestle I go full on, no bullshitting, I’m not going to rag doll someone across the mat to show how cool I am. I will attempt to tear their shit up as hard as I can and as fast as I can. Now, consciously I can’t do that to a woman, and consciously if I’m not going to wrestle 100 percent I might as well not step on the damn mat.
If you don’t understand that there is a difference between man and a woman, I can’t help you. You are just plain and utterly retarded.
Tell me this, if you have any kind of relationship as I do with my father, I wrestle, fight, punch, roll with my father from time to time. Now, tell me, what kind of fucking lunatic would think they could do that to their mother without their father royally kicking their ass? You see the difference, my mother is no pansy, I’m sure she could kick my ass and your ass at the same time while making supper and carrying a baby on her hip. She’s that tough, but never in my right mind would I think that wrestling, fighting, punching, or rolling with my mother was a good idea. NEVER! What a total lack of respect.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
I think everyone agrees here. You all are just twisting words and meanings.
Male and Female sports should be separate; however, if a female is talented enough to actually compete with the males, then she should be allowed to. It’s about as simple as that. Does anyone disagree?[/quote]
Yes, I disagree. Take a look at Eastern Bloc countries and their system of pitting athletes against each other. I believe you have five levels (Novice, Level 1, 2, 3, and Master) and each of those levels has sub levels. So, if a woman is a Master and she was pitted against a male Master she wouldn’t have a chance. She’d have to be pitted against a lower level wrestler. For the training/experience/strength/&c. would not be a level playing ground. You’ll have a highly experienced woman against basically a sophomore in the sport. Just a big Foxtrot Charlie to me even if you ignore the fundamental differences between man and woman…AND, wrestling a person of your own sex and someone of the opposite sex.
So could I, but if I hurt boys (or men, whatever you want to call them, who had been wrestling for 5-10-15 years) on a weekly basis in meets, what do you think is going to happen to a female? Because, if I wrestle I go full on, no bullshitting, I’m not going to rag doll someone across the mat to show how cool I am. I will attempt to tear their shit up as hard as I can and as fast as I can. Now, consciously I can’t do that to a woman, and consciously if I’m not going to wrestle 100 percent I might as well not step on the damn mat.
If you don’t understand that there is a difference between man and a woman, I can’t help you. You are just plain and utterly retarded.
Tell me this, if you have any kind of relationship as I do with my father, I wrestle, fight, punch, roll with my father from time to time. Now, tell me, what kind of fucking lunatic would think they could do that to their mother without their father royally kicking their ass? You see the difference, my mother is no pansy, I’m sure she could kick my ass and your ass at the same time while making supper and carrying a baby on her hip. She’s that tough, but never in my right mind would I think that wrestling, fighting, punching, or rolling with my mother was a good idea. NEVER! What a total lack of respect.
[/quote]
I can wrestle at 50%. Often did in practice. Active passive drills and the like.
I watched a guy (initials BK for credibility) tech fall his way through a tournament (including one of my friends) in active pursuit of the missouri state high school takedown record. A girl can get tackled on a mat surely and survive.
The girl signed up. Shes roughly the same age. Same weight, roughly the same experience and she made it through all those practices and the entire season en route to the state tournament.
You’re not convinced? Fine forfeit the match. Sacrifices are often made for personal beliefs.
Maybe you would consider trying to tech fall her though before that. Or maybe you can sprawl on her first shot, cover, turn her with a standard half nelson and pin in the first :30. You can forfeit at any time during the match might as well give it a shot.
Good god I’m not wrestling my mom. Shes a sixty plus year old post-menopausal grandmother half my height and weight.
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
Title IX is an issue for some areas within the US, however, Iowa is not one of them. Especially not in wrestling, where this sport is bigger than fucking FOOTBALL! Now, with this in mind, this isn’t a “feel good” story. She wasn’t GIVEN this opportunity to compete. She busted her ass for it since she was 3. She placed 2d in her region, for fucks sake! She’s good. She’s obviously proven her own merit based upon the fact that she’s at the fucking state tournament to begin with! To simply chalk this up to Title IX is a discredit to her and the fucking sport, and I’d kindly ask you to just shut your fucking mouth about it. You know not what you speak of.
[/quote]
Well, from the things that I have read and the things that I have seen (dealing with women in wrestling), she has had several men bow out from wrestling her. So, to say that she earned it with a 1.6:1 winning ratio and several men forfeiting, eh. Earn is debatable.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
It was wrestling, not freaking UFC or boxing. I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/quote]
[/quote]
I agree with Ole about it being on a different level of physical risk, despite whose leg or neck was broken wrestling.
I disagree with Ole that it’s relevant. If a girl can compete with guys in UFC or boxing, and she wants to, she should be allowed to. The opponents of such a girl should take her on just the way they would any other opponent.[/quote]
Okay, and we’ll see our first kill in UFC.[/quote]
depends on what you mean by ‘first’
“Total deaths in the ring for between the period of 1998 and now:
BOXING 70 deaths
MMA 1 Death”
"Let it also be noted that the one MMA death occurred in Russia to a man who had previous injuries and was said to have â??blacked outâ?? in trainings before the match in Russia.
Mixed Martial Arts has come along way since 1998. The rules have become increasingly more protective of the fighters. It also must be said that there have been a lot more boxing matches than MMA matches during this time period."[/quote]
[b][center]I don’t think the “violence” argument has as much weight with such a controlled, non-striking skill sport.[/center][/b][/quote]
[/quote]
I want to pair Olee’s statement with this video once again.
[/quote]
Are you comparing high school wrestling to eastern bloc wrestling?
I think the majority of those throws are illegal in high school wrestling. Having to do with the throwers knee touching the mat before the body of the throwee does.
And as a bad wrestler that got ragdolled like that from time time, including with some illegal throws, you shake it off.
Anyway I see both sides of the argument. I don’t think its clear cut night and day.[/quote]
WTF Eastern Block? You mean Greco-Roman? Yeah, not a lot of programs do it because of the “injuries” however unless you’re a little kid and you’re serious…the club teams do Grek, and even if you’re not on a club you can still enter Grek meets as an individual.[/quote]
I admire you for working your way through the thread but the topic has been covered. Couldn’t identify the style as I never wrestled greco or free style but I knew those throws are illegal in high school.
I was just noting that these were athletes representing “eastern-bloc” countries like Bulgaria where the wrestling culture is perhaps a bit stronger.[/quote]
My father wrestled Greco-Roman it is because of liability, folk is much safer (I guess I can see how someone might be possibly able to wrestle for fifteen years in folk and not get hurt, but he’d still have to not try at the sport) and liability is down, however higher levels and private clubs and tournies routinely do Grek.