So can boys sign up to play girls’ volleyball?
lol @ this whole thread.
Males are better than females at sports. FACT
These males who play in men leagues are better than those women who play in women leagues. FACT
Men therefore ARE ONLY ALLOWED (99.9% of the time) to play in womens leagues.
If a woman is capable of COMPETING in a mens league, then let it happen. Why not compete with the best, right?
If a woman cannot compete in a mens league, then she will play in the womens league.
Sport leagues should be looked at on a 2-step totem (Men at the top, Women on the bottom) and you can only go up
AC (i think it was you) i understand your level playing field argument (females should play with females, males play with males) but why not allow the women who are capable of playing with the males, play with the males?
You already see it in professional sports today.
Ex. the NHL allows females to play, and it has in the past. (Tampa Bay had the girl goalie for a couple games). They thought she could compete in the league but once she couldn’t prove herself she was booted out. If she put up .950SV% and 0.5GAA, would you not let her play?? that would be retarded. And its pretty obvious why men in the NHL dont play in womens leagues, because they would destroy them.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
No, but I think a boy should be able to go play for another school if his school doesn’t have the sport. It’s one thing for a girl with the rare ability to complete with the boys, but in a girls sport it’s going to be filled with average girls that have no chance against a boy with average ability.[/quote]
I do understand the distinction. My softball/field hockey hypothetical is not a perfect analogy. However, I do tend to agree with AC that our whole purpose in this life as a society should not be to iron out EVERY single wrinkle of EVERY single perceived social inequity. It’s gotten ridiculous to the point of sheer, unadulterated stupidity.
There is too much “force” being applied in our country today. Turn libertarianism loose - live and let live.
Government thinks, and by extension the people that install the government think, that it, government, is some kind of handy-fucking-dandy tool that can and should be used to “fix” EVERYTHING under the sun. And this so called “gender inequity” issue is a prime example.[/quote]
^Exactly. Well said PH.
Oh, and any parent who could watch the video clip AC put up and think that their daughter belongs in the middle of that, has no common sense. That doesn’t make them misogynistic either, quite the opposite.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If women are capable of and should be accepted in male sports, then there should not be female exclusive sports.[/quote]
There isn’t for this sport. Wrestling is an exception to the norm because of the weight classes in place. Skill can make up for a deficit in strength/speed as well (to a point). That is not the case in most sports.[/quote]
There are also sports where the natural physical attributes of a girl are more suited to the task, but boys aren’t allowed to compete. (gymnastics, kicking, est.)
There are also a lot of sports where physicality is pretty even. Pool, table tennis, bowling, est. That there isn’t a mixing of the genders.
If there is a need for female sports then females should play female sports. (there is apparently female wrestling already)[/quote]
Are girls really more qualified (“physical attributes” as you said) to participate in gymnastics then males?? how so? don’t give me flexibility reasons because that isn’t true for any male gymnast.
I wouldn’t really consider pool or table tennis to be a sport. bowling somewhat. Although I completely agree with you that these “sports” should not be gender specific.
I agree again with you that females should play with only females. However, if a female is truly capable of competing against a guy then why not? It is a KNOWN fact, whether anyone would like to admit it or not, but males ARE better than females at SPORTS. Therefore, if a female can compete with men then they should be given the opportunity. However, I have yet to see a female who can compete against males. (compete = on the same skill level as men and not just the physical act of competing)[/quote]
No girls are not better at gymnastics. The top female gymnasts can’t even dream of doing the things the top men can do.
I agree with all of your post except the part about ping pong. It’s way more of a sport than bowling. Watch some world class video. Some amazing stuff goes on at a ping pong table.[/quote]
It depends on the event. BUT do not forget that balance and grace and flow and body lines are a large factor. And those are things girls are naturally better at.[/quote]
You are full of shit. lol
[quote]Oleena wrote:
However, in the explosive sports, the explosive and strength abilities only make a difference if the player has the same level of skill as their opponent. For instance, take an old schooled boxer and put him with a younger, inexperienced, yet stronger and faster opponent. He is going to beat that kid, hands down, in about three moves. There are plenty of youtube videos attesting to this. In the same light, a very experienced female jujitsu opponent will take out a stronger and faster, much less experienced guy of the same weight class.
[/quote]
Have you heard of Mike Tyson or Cassius Clay?
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
Sport leagues should be looked at on a 2-step totem (Men at the top, Women on the bottom) and you can only go up
[/quote]
ding ding ding. Well said
I think everyone agrees here. You all are just twisting words and meanings.
Male and Female sports should be separate; however, if a female is talented enough to actually compete with the males, then she should be allowed to. It’s about as simple as that. Does anyone disagree?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Extremely lame to equate women with the deef (sic), amputees, people with congenital birth defects, black guys, and homosexuals. It’s so lame it bears no extensive response other than “Your train of logic derailed. Again.” [/quote]
…Please elaborate if possible…
[/quote]
You honestly want me to elaborate on the fact that that a man/boy who refuses to wrestle or compete against a woman is not the same as a man/boy who refuses to wrestle or compete against a black guy?
Off to Siberia you go, my intellectual giant. Bring your long underwear.[/quote]
Its an analogy for the sake of argument. And you have failed to elaborate. Very weak argument, or lack thereof.
Alright people. Show of hands, now. Who wrestled in school and beyond? I ask because unless you actually competed and such, you really have nothing to say.
Title IX is an issue for some areas within the US, however, Iowa is not one of them. Especially not in wrestling, where this sport is bigger than fucking FOOTBALL! Now, with this in mind, this isn’t a “feel good” story. She wasn’t GIVEN this opportunity to compete. She busted her ass for it since she was 3. She placed 2d in her region, for fucks sake! She’s good. She’s obviously proven her own merit based upon the fact that she’s at the fucking state tournament to begin with! To simply chalk this up to Title IX is a discredit to her and the fucking sport, and I’d kindly ask you to just shut your fucking mouth about it. You know not what you speak of.
Now, for those that are beating their drums about female teams…this is extremely rare in the school-aged system. From the time they are in the pee-wees, the girls compete with the boys. How do I know? I FUCKING COACHED!!! How dare any of you open your mouths (fingers) to say that a spot is awarded to a girl for political reasons only. You have to earn that spot on a weekly basis, unless there is no one there to compete for it. I don’t imagine that was the case for this girl in particular. So with this said, what is she to do, since there isn’t a girls team, and she is more than capable of competing with and beating boys? She shouldn’t be allowed to compete because she’s a girl? Because it’d put “undue” pressure on the boys she has the potential to beat? Yeah…gotcha. While they do have female brackets and tourneys on the National and International level, you won’t find much of this in the local or state setting, so how do they train and get better?
And Oleena, stay the fuck out of shit you know nothing about! Your ignorance is fucking offensive. I’ve personally “re-located” opponents’ knees. I’ve broken backs. I’ve left dudes unconscious. And I wasn’t even considered “elite.” Having trained with the World Class Athlete Program, where females DO train with the guys, I can tell you how rough it can be. There are no gentlemen on the fucking mat. We don’t “play.” We are not gentle. Get a fucking clue.
And that video is not “Eastern Bloc” wrestling. That’s international competition. And the rules are completely different from high school, or “folk-style” wrestling. Do your research people.
[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]on edge wrote:
No, but I think a boy should be able to go play for another school if his school doesn’t have the sport. It’s one thing for a girl with the rare ability to complete with the boys, but in a girls sport it’s going to be filled with average girls that have no chance against a boy with average ability.[/quote]
I do understand the distinction. My softball/field hockey hypothetical is not a perfect analogy. However, I do tend to agree with AC that our whole purpose in this life as a society should not be to iron out EVERY single wrinkle of EVERY single perceived social inequity. It’s gotten ridiculous to the point of sheer, unadulterated stupidity.
There is too much “force” being applied in our country today. Turn libertarianism loose - live and let live.
Government thinks, and by extension the people that install the government think, that it, government, is some kind of handy-fucking-dandy tool that can and should be used to “fix” EVERYTHING under the sun. And this so called “gender inequity” issue is a prime example.[/quote]
^Exactly. Well said PH.
Oh, and any parent who could watch the video clip AC put up and think that their daughter belongs in the middle of that, has no common sense. That doesn’t make them misogynistic either, quite the opposite. [/quote]
I disagree. I think all young women, on the year of their first period should go wrestle in bulgaria against 200lb olympic caliber wrestlers.
/sarcasm
You got in this thread too late. You are behind.
This girl weighed like 120 lbs. She would be wrestling 120 lb young men. She is in little to no danger.
Edited to remove immaturity from original response.
As to the government forcing anything I don’t see it. I see a meritocratic sports division that does not discriminate against anyone that fits basic high school sports eligibility. When you run a wrestling organization feel free to create your own bylaws.
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
Alright people. Show of hands, now. Who wrestled in school and beyond? I ask because unless you actually competed and such, you really have nothing to say.
Title IX is an issue for some areas within the US, however, Iowa is not one of them. Especially not in wrestling, where this sport is bigger than fucking FOOTBALL! Now, with this in mind, this isn’t a “feel good” story. She wasn’t GIVEN this opportunity to compete. She busted her ass for it since she was 3. She placed 2d in her region, for fucks sake! She’s good. She’s obviously proven her own merit based upon the fact that she’s at the fucking state tournament to begin with! To simply chalk this up to Title IX is a discredit to her and the fucking sport, and I’d kindly ask you to just shut your fucking mouth about it. You know not what you speak of.
Now, for those that are beating their drums about female teams…this is extremely rare in the school-aged system. From the time they are in the pee-wees, the girls compete with the boys. How do I know? I FUCKING COACHED!!! How dare any of you open your mouths (fingers) to say that a spot is awarded to a girl for political reasons only. You have to earn that spot on a weekly basis, unless there is no one there to compete for it. I don’t imagine that was the case for this girl in particular. So with this said, what is she to do, since there isn’t a girls team, and she is more than capable of competing with and beating boys? She shouldn’t be allowed to compete because she’s a girl? Because it’d put “undue” pressure on the boys she has the potential to beat? Yeah…gotcha. While they do have female brackets and tourneys on the National and International level, you won’t find much of this in the local or state setting, so how do they train and get better?
And Oleena, stay the fuck out of shit you know nothing about! Your ignorance is fucking offensive. I’ve personally “re-located” opponents’ knees. I’ve broken backs. I’ve left dudes unconscious. And I wasn’t even considered “elite.” Having trained with the World Class Athlete Program, where females DO train with the guys, I can tell you how rough it can be. There are no gentlemen on the fucking mat. We don’t “play.” We are not gentle. Get a fucking clue.
And that video is not “Eastern Bloc” wrestling. That’s international competition. And the rules are completely different from high school, or “folk-style” wrestling. Do your research people. [/quote]
You agree with my overall point and criticize my use of the term ‘eastern bloc’. You’re right, I did not do research. I assumed that BUL on the singlet stood for bulgaria. I did also point out that their rules appeared to differ from the folk style practiced in most american schools.
A small point of difference, but overall the same page.
Yes its rough. She signed up for it knowing that. Shes a tough girl.
[quote]Reygekan wrote:
Women and men should not both compete in wrestling because wrestling is a full contact sport and a thing called boobs exist.
You either don’t allow the girl to call judge every time a guy touches her boob trying to pin or flip her, and then you end up with a bunch of guys taking advantage of the situation to start groping chicks. Or, you allow the girl to call judge and disqualify the guy, and then the guy’s at a disadvantage because there’s a big “DON’T TOUCH ANYWHERE NEAR HERE” zone that any intelligent female can use to their advantage.
If that girls wants her breasts surgically removed before entering the competition, then I don’t really give a fuck if she competes.[/quote]
What in the ever living fuck are you talking about.
There is no ‘judge’ rule. There is no don’t touch zone in wrestling. No one is groping anybody on the mat. Wrestling, despite the contact is the least sexually arousing shit available. No guys are popping boners in practice, or in singlets because they are physically and mentally exhausted. 5 years high school and collegiate level talking here. Never fucking happens.
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
Alright people. Show of hands, now. Who wrestled in school and beyond? I ask because unless you actually competed and such, you really have nothing to say.
Title IX is an issue for some areas within the US, however, Iowa is not one of them. Especially not in wrestling, where this sport is bigger than fucking FOOTBALL! Now, with this in mind, this isn’t a “feel good” story. She wasn’t GIVEN this opportunity to compete. She busted her ass for it since she was 3. She placed 2d in her region, for fucks sake! She’s good. She’s obviously proven her own merit based upon the fact that she’s at the fucking state tournament to begin with! To simply chalk this up to Title IX is a discredit to her and the fucking sport, and I’d kindly ask you to just shut your fucking mouth about it. You know not what you speak of.
Now, for those that are beating their drums about female teams…this is extremely rare in the school-aged system. From the time they are in the pee-wees, the girls compete with the boys. How do I know? I FUCKING COACHED!!! How dare any of you open your mouths (fingers) to say that a spot is awarded to a girl for political reasons only. You have to earn that spot on a weekly basis, unless there is no one there to compete for it. I don’t imagine that was the case for this girl in particular. So with this said, what is she to do, since there isn’t a girls team, and she is more than capable of competing with and beating boys? She shouldn’t be allowed to compete because she’s a girl? Because it’d put “undue” pressure on the boys she has the potential to beat? Yeah…gotcha. While they do have female brackets and tourneys on the National and International level, you won’t find much of this in the local or state setting, so how do they train and get better?
And Oleena, stay the fuck out of shit you know nothing about! Your ignorance is fucking offensive. I’ve personally “re-located” opponents’ knees. I’ve broken backs. I’ve left dudes unconscious. And I wasn’t even considered “elite.” Having trained with the World Class Athlete Program, where females DO train with the guys, I can tell you how rough it can be. There are no gentlemen on the fucking mat. We don’t “play.” We are not gentle. Get a fucking clue.
And that video is not “Eastern Bloc” wrestling. That’s international competition. And the rules are completely different from high school, or “folk-style” wrestling. Do your research people. [/quote]
You agree with my overall point and criticize my use of the term ‘eastern bloc’. You’re right, I did not do research. I assumed that BUL on the singlet stood for bulgaria. I did also point out that their rules appeared to differ from the folk style practiced in most american schools.
A small point of difference, but overall the same page.
Yes its rough. She signed up for it knowing that. Shes a tough girl.[/quote]
Yeah…I got a lil heated. lol… And yeah, BUL is Bulgaria. My tirade was geared more toward the general ignorance that’s running rampant thru here. A few of you actually make sense, but there are some that just need to step off. Wrestling is my first passion, and from first-hand experience, I won’t hate on any girl that can compete with the guys in this sport. She is on another level entirely if she can, as this girl in Iowa can. It’s an entirely different mentality, not for the meek or faint of heart. I’ve met some ladies whose intensity levels and skill set would put some guys to shame.
Then truth be told, we are talking about girls who, most often, are competing in the lower weight-classes: 103, 112, 119, 125… These aren’t the biggest, strongest dudes on the planet. Some are, some are not. Quickness, endurance, and technique rules the day in most cases. I’ve seen girls win with this in mind. I’ve seen “non-athletic” dudes win against beasts, based on technique alone.
I get the faith issue, however that is a rarity. Most often, it’s fear of perception that rules out. “What if I get beat?” “What would I look like if I destroy her?” There is a simple solution. Either take her out quickly, tech fall her, or takedown and release. The latter is usually what takes place.
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]Reygekan wrote:
Women and men should not both compete in wrestling because wrestling is a full contact sport and a thing called boobs exist.
You either don’t allow the girl to call judge every time a guy touches her boob trying to pin or flip her, and then you end up with a bunch of guys taking advantage of the situation to start groping chicks. Or, you allow the girl to call judge and disqualify the guy, and then the guy’s at a disadvantage because there’s a big “DON’T TOUCH ANYWHERE NEAR HERE” zone that any intelligent female can use to their advantage.
If that girls wants her breasts surgically removed before entering the competition, then I don’t really give a fuck if she competes.[/quote]
What in the ever living fuck are you talking about.
There is no ‘judge’ rule. There is no don’t touch zone in wrestling. No one is groping anybody on the mat. Wrestling, despite the contact is the least sexually arousing shit available. No guys are popping boners in practice, or in singlets because they are physically and mentally exhausted. 5 years high school and collegiate level talking here. Never fucking happens.[/quote]
It’s because you wrestled against dudes. C’mon man. If i were wrestling against an attractive girl, I’d probably be touching her innapropriately… or at least thinking about it ha
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
ehh…
i know this girl’s dad, and he competes in powerlifting and stuff like that (and he’s a good dude,a nd hella badass).
i don’t blame the kid for forfeiting, but what if she wins the whole thing, all 4 years? why bust your ass all season not to compete, especially in wreslting, where ya gotta cut?
this girls’ been wrestling since 3rd grade, so it’s not a novelty to her. she’s also a freshman, which makes her even more impressive.
[/quote]
Because there are things above winning a competition.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]Reygekan wrote:
Women and men should not both compete in wrestling because wrestling is a full contact sport and a thing called boobs exist.
You either don’t allow the girl to call judge every time a guy touches her boob trying to pin or flip her, and then you end up with a bunch of guys taking advantage of the situation to start groping chicks. Or, you allow the girl to call judge and disqualify the guy, and then the guy’s at a disadvantage because there’s a big “DON’T TOUCH ANYWHERE NEAR HERE” zone that any intelligent female can use to their advantage.
If that girls wants her breasts surgically removed before entering the competition, then I don’t really give a fuck if she competes.[/quote]
What in the ever living fuck are you talking about.
There is no ‘judge’ rule. There is no don’t touch zone in wrestling. No one is groping anybody on the mat. Wrestling, despite the contact is the least sexually arousing shit available. No guys are popping boners in practice, or in singlets because they are physically and mentally exhausted. 5 years high school and collegiate level talking here. Never fucking happens.[/quote]
It’s because you wrestled against dudes. C’mon man. If i were wrestling against an attractive girl, I’d probably be touching her innapropriately… or at least thinking about it ha[/quote]
I’ve trained and wrestled and sparred both men and women. It’s called controlling yourself and focusing on the training.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]Reygekan wrote:
Women and men should not both compete in wrestling because wrestling is a full contact sport and a thing called boobs exist.
You either don’t allow the girl to call judge every time a guy touches her boob trying to pin or flip her, and then you end up with a bunch of guys taking advantage of the situation to start groping chicks. Or, you allow the girl to call judge and disqualify the guy, and then the guy’s at a disadvantage because there’s a big “DON’T TOUCH ANYWHERE NEAR HERE” zone that any intelligent female can use to their advantage.
If that girls wants her breasts surgically removed before entering the competition, then I don’t really give a fuck if she competes.[/quote]
What in the ever living fuck are you talking about.
There is no ‘judge’ rule. There is no don’t touch zone in wrestling. No one is groping anybody on the mat. Wrestling, despite the contact is the least sexually arousing shit available. No guys are popping boners in practice, or in singlets because they are physically and mentally exhausted. 5 years high school and collegiate level talking here. Never fucking happens.[/quote]
It’s because you wrestled against dudes. C’mon man. If i were wrestling against an attractive girl, I’d probably be touching her innapropriately… or at least thinking about it ha[/quote]
No, you’d be thinking win this and get the fuck out because its awkward as hell. Unless you are a serious fucking pervert that wants to pop a boner in front of family, teachers, peers, coaches and the general public. You just wrestle.
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]TD54 wrote:
[quote]Eli B wrote:
[quote]Reygekan wrote:
Women and men should not both compete in wrestling because wrestling is a full contact sport and a thing called boobs exist.
You either don’t allow the girl to call judge every time a guy touches her boob trying to pin or flip her, and then you end up with a bunch of guys taking advantage of the situation to start groping chicks. Or, you allow the girl to call judge and disqualify the guy, and then the guy’s at a disadvantage because there’s a big “DON’T TOUCH ANYWHERE NEAR HERE” zone that any intelligent female can use to their advantage.
If that girls wants her breasts surgically removed before entering the competition, then I don’t really give a fuck if she competes.[/quote]
What in the ever living fuck are you talking about.
There is no ‘judge’ rule. There is no don’t touch zone in wrestling. No one is groping anybody on the mat. Wrestling, despite the contact is the least sexually arousing shit available. No guys are popping boners in practice, or in singlets because they are physically and mentally exhausted. 5 years high school and collegiate level talking here. Never fucking happens.[/quote]
It’s because you wrestled against dudes. C’mon man. If i were wrestling against an attractive girl, I’d probably be touching her innapropriately… or at least thinking about it ha[/quote]
No, you’d be thinking win this and get the fuck out because its awkward as hell. Unless you are a serious fucking pervert that wants to pop a boner in front of family, teachers, peers, coaches and the general public. You just wrestle.[/quote]
LMAO! Pretty much… good one!
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
Yeah…I got a lil heated.
[/quote]
I’m a bit heated myself. Mostly because guys on this site are always talking about what it is to be a man. Part of that is comporting yourself with dignity and respect for those who show it to you in turn. You don’t have to admit to being wrong, or even feel that you are but you can have a respectful exchange of ideas that isn’t always an argument. That’s my ideal that I strive for although I often fail to reach it. I don’t think others are even trying to hold themselves to the same standard.
Same old alpha bullshit.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I don’t get the “let men play on women’s volleyball team” argument. Is that just to test the boundaries of the people in favor of the girl wrestling with the boys?
Because there are already men’s teams for those sports, so why blatantly try to play with the women?
If she was wrestling with the guys because there were no female competitions AT THAT LEVEL, then that makes sense. Equity is fine, but so long as there’s equal opportunity for BOTH genders’ sports, there’s no “issue.”
It’s not just about religion or “pussing out.” I think men in general are HARD WIRED to not be as physically aggressive–if at all–with women, and that seems to a legit point that’s unfairly overlooked when discussing this issues, particularly when WOMEN discuss them:
“That asshole forfeited to take away from her achievement!”
No, that “asshole” was probably raised a certain way AND his natural instinct was to not get violent with a girl. This is a point that women will NEVER understand because they’re not men. Men understand it, though.[/quote]
I could understand if this was Arizona, but this is Iowa the women have their own division. You just don’t hear about it, like you don’t hear about women’s football.