[quote]rasturai wrote:
What is that talk about Tyson? If Tyson were to do MMA realize he would be shorter in the heavyweight division which would make it harder to take him down cause he would already be low…and if your getting that close that would enable his fast footwork and you’d get some good hooks/uppercuts in and possibly be KO’ed.
Realize Tyson always had power in his hands.
Aside from that yes the UFC does have not the best hands in the business but it’s true the guys who have a big background in wrestling/bjj whatever do very well in MMA cause if they know they are fighting a guy with very good stand up they will take them down to their world, even if the boxer/great stand up guy has trained some groundfighting it will not be the same.
Bas Rutten lost to submisison and got so mad he said he would never lose again, so since his standup was already great he trained the ground game 2 sometimes 3 times a day and won his next 8 fights by submission. Anything is possible, just work hard dammnit![/quote]
I highly highly highly doubt Toney trains his ground game every day.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
What is that talk about Tyson? If Tyson were to do MMA realize he would be shorter in the heavyweight division which would make it harder to take him down cause he would already be low…and if your getting that close that would enable his fast footwork and you’d get some good hooks/uppercuts in and possibly be KO’ed.
Realize Tyson always had power in his hands.
Aside from that yes the UFC does have not the best hands in the business but it’s true the guys who have a big background in wrestling/bjj whatever do very well in MMA cause if they know they are fighting a guy with very good stand up they will take them down to their world, even if the boxer/great stand up guy has trained some groundfighting it will not be the same.
Bas Rutten lost to submisison and got so mad he said he would never lose again, so since his standup was already great he trained the ground game 2 sometimes 3 times a day and won his next 8 fights by submission. Anything is possible, just work hard dammnit![/quote]
I highly highly highly doubt Toney trains his ground game every day.[/quote]
It’s because is GHEI! didn’t you read his interview?
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Couture? THE BEST HANDS DOWN GRAPPLER THE UFC HAS EVER SEEN. He was an Olympic alternate.
[/quote]
Gotta disagree that he’s the best grappler the UFC has ever seen. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Randy and he has had a great career. But there have been better grapplers who have competed in the UFC. GSP, Hughes, Maia, Lindland, and Penn are all better pure grapplers than Randy. Maybe you meant to say most accomplished?
Still agree that wrestling is a great base system and that there have been many successful wrestlers who have made the jump to MMA. I’m sure that people could also cite quite a few examples of Jiu-Jitsu or Striking art guys also making the jump and being successful though.
In the end you’ve gotta be well rounded enough to at least be able to force your opponent to fight your fight, regardless of your base system.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
What is that talk about Tyson? If Tyson were to do MMA realize he would be shorter in the heavyweight division which would make it harder to take him down cause he would already be low…and if your getting that close that would enable his fast footwork and you’d get some good hooks/uppercuts in and possibly be KO’ed.
Realize Tyson always had power in his hands.
Aside from that yes the UFC does have not the best hands in the business but it’s true the guys who have a big background in wrestling/bjj whatever do very well in MMA cause if they know they are fighting a guy with very good stand up they will take them down to their world, even if the boxer/great stand up guy has trained some groundfighting it will not be the same.
Bas Rutten lost to submisison and got so mad he said he would never lose again, so since his standup was already great he trained the ground game 2 sometimes 3 times a day and won his next 8 fights by submission. Anything is possible, just work hard dammnit![/quote]
I highly highly highly doubt Toney trains his ground game every day.[/quote]
Lol Toney? I’m talking about Tyson…where did Toney come from? If we are on that topic though your right. Toney probably doesn’t train his ground game everyday…but then again I’m not concerned with Toney, it’d be hilarious if he KO’s Randy…but Randy will take him down and do his thing most likely.
I think the problem with going from boxing to MMA as opposed to wrestling or BJJ to MMA is that it takes a fairly long time to get truly dangerous at wrestling or bjj (against pro-level opponents), but relatively less time to learn to throw a couple of punches and maybe a combo or two that can get lucky. Yes, as a boxer most MMA fighters would die, but they don’t have to be boxers. All they have to do is throw with enough power to make the other guy respect their hands.
On the other hand, a boxer with 6 months of BJJ is no threat to anyone who calls themselves a pro level MMA fighter. Maybe 10 years ago, but now the sport has advanced to the point where it takes 2-3 years of ground experience just to survive without being submitted (or lay-and-prayed). So the guys with the gracie black belt or D1 college wrestling are only 6 months to a year from being well rounded enough for MMA, whereas the boxer is usually a few years out. Add to that the fact that pay scale still looks like “boxers > MMA > wrestling (not WWE)/ BJJ ,” and there’s even less incentive for a boxer to put in the time and effort to become an MMA fighter, whereas the wrestlers and BBJers actually stand to make some money by learning enough standup to go MMA.
This dynamic could change if some better strikers get into the UFC and force people to pick up their standup the way the BJJ crowd forced everyone to work on their ground game, and if UFC pay starts going north of boxing. Especially at the lower levels, once MMA starts to pay better than boxing the kids that are in it for the money will train MMA, and boxing gyms will start to transition to MMA gyms. Until then, the young kids putting in long hours in a sweaty concrete hole will keep boxing, and they will probably stay boxers for their career.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I think the problem with going from boxing to MMA as opposed to wrestling or BJJ to MMA is that it takes a fairly long time to get truly dangerous at wrestling or bjj (against pro-level opponents), but relatively less time to learn to throw a couple of punches and maybe a combo or two that can get lucky. Yes, as a boxer most MMA fighters would die, but they don’t have to be boxers. All they have to do is throw with enough power to make the other guy respect their hands.
On the other hand, a boxer with 6 months of BJJ is no threat to anyone who calls themselves a pro level MMA fighter. Maybe 10 years ago, but now the sport has advanced to the point where it takes 2-3 years of ground experience just to survive without being submitted (or lay-and-prayed). So the guys with the gracie black belt or D1 college wrestling are only 6 months to a year from being well rounded enough for MMA, whereas the boxer is usually a few years out. Add to that the fact that pay scale still looks like “boxers > MMA > wrestling (not WWE)/ BJJ ,” and there’s even less incentive for a boxer to put in the time and effort to become an MMA fighter, whereas the wrestlers and BBJers actually stand to make some money by learning enough standup to go MMA.
This dynamic could change if some better strikers get into the UFC and force people to pick up their standup the way the BJJ crowd forced everyone to work on their ground game, and if UFC pay starts going north of boxing. Especially at the lower levels, once MMA starts to pay better than boxing the kids that are in it for the money will train MMA, and boxing gyms will start to transition to MMA gyms. Until then, the young kids putting in long hours in a sweaty concrete hole will keep boxing, and they will probably stay boxers for their career.[/quote]
no
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I think the problem with going from boxing to MMA as opposed to wrestling or BJJ to MMA is that it takes a fairly long time to get truly dangerous at wrestling or bjj (against pro-level opponents), but relatively less time to learn to throw a couple of punches and maybe a combo or two that can get lucky. Yes, as a boxer most MMA fighters would die, but they don’t have to be boxers. All they have to do is throw with enough power to make the other guy respect their hands.
On the other hand, a boxer with 6 months of BJJ is no threat to anyone who calls themselves a pro level MMA fighter. Maybe 10 years ago, but now the sport has advanced to the point where it takes 2-3 years of ground experience just to survive without being submitted (or lay-and-prayed). So the guys with the gracie black belt or D1 college wrestling are only 6 months to a year from being well rounded enough for MMA, whereas the boxer is usually a few years out. Add to that the fact that pay scale still looks like “boxers > MMA > wrestling (not WWE)/ BJJ ,” and there’s even less incentive for a boxer to put in the time and effort to become an MMA fighter, whereas the wrestlers and BBJers actually stand to make some money by learning enough standup to go MMA.
This dynamic could change if some better strikers get into the UFC and force people to pick up their standup the way the BJJ crowd forced everyone to work on their ground game, and if UFC pay starts going north of boxing. Especially at the lower levels, once MMA starts to pay better than boxing the kids that are in it for the money will train MMA, and boxing gyms will start to transition to MMA gyms. Until then, the young kids putting in long hours in a sweaty concrete hole will keep boxing, and they will probably stay boxers for their career.[/quote]
no[/quote]
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
I think the problem with going from boxing to MMA as opposed to wrestling or BJJ to MMA is that it takes a fairly long time to get truly dangerous at wrestling or bjj (against pro-level opponents), but relatively less time to learn to throw a couple of punches and maybe a combo or two that can get lucky. Yes, as a boxer most MMA fighters would die, but they don’t have to be boxers. All they have to do is throw with enough power to make the other guy respect their hands.
On the other hand, a boxer with 6 months of BJJ is no threat to anyone who calls themselves a pro level MMA fighter. Maybe 10 years ago, but now the sport has advanced to the point where it takes 2-3 years of ground experience just to survive without being submitted (or lay-and-prayed). So the guys with the gracie black belt or D1 college wrestling are only 6 months to a year from being well rounded enough for MMA, whereas the boxer is usually a few years out. Add to that the fact that pay scale still looks like “boxers > MMA > wrestling (not WWE)/ BJJ ,” and there’s even less incentive for a boxer to put in the time and effort to become an MMA fighter, whereas the wrestlers and BBJers actually stand to make some money by learning enough standup to go MMA.
This dynamic could change if some better strikers get into the UFC and force people to pick up their standup the way the BJJ crowd forced everyone to work on their ground game, and if UFC pay starts going north of boxing. Especially at the lower levels, once MMA starts to pay better than boxing the kids that are in it for the money will train MMA, and boxing gyms will start to transition to MMA gyms. Until then, the young kids putting in long hours in a sweaty concrete hole will keep boxing, and they will probably stay boxers for their career.[/quote]
no[/quote]
you could develop/expand your answer, no?[/quote]
Who cares what his answer is… I am just praying that isn’t him in his avatar with that ridiculous tattoo
I think I realized why the quality of striking across the board (outside of the few elite of the sport) generally sucks ass: MMA suffers from not having an amateur outlet.
In boxing, most young boxers have 5-7 years of amateur fights under their belt before they turn pro. Wheres the amateur outlet for MMA? Until recently, it was largely non-existing. Hell by their own admittance, alot of pro MMA fighters, especially in the UFC, are footballers or other athletes that came across after their football careers fell through.
The amateur outlets? BJJ and wrestling tournaments. A lot of guys go into MMA from those backgrounds. My guess is, if you’re a boxer fighting in the amateur ranks, you’re less likely to transition into MMA. This might explain the higher standard of grappling in MMA relative to that of boxing/kickboxing.
Training for “MMA” is dumb (IN MY PERSONAL OPINION) if you don’t have BASES. Seriously what are you gonig to gather/go off of.
like rundymc said…they have BJJ and wrestling tournaments…and it’s true lots of guys go into MMA from that background.
Brandon Vera said it before a long time ago…he said something like before you go into MMA you should compete in ALL the different sports and really get into it…that includes Muay Thai (do some bouts), BJJ tournaments, wrestling, boxing if you’d like etc.
And it’s true. Right now I am training strictly boxing…if I ever plan on doing MMA 5-6 years from now I will have already 2 years Muay thai under my belt, years of boxing…and it’d probably be a good idea to start training BJJ and throws within the next year and I would be well rounded and THEN I could train MMA style where I combine everything.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
The amateur outlets? BJJ and wrestling tournaments. A lot of guys go into MMA from those backgrounds. My guess is, if you’re a boxer fighting in the amateur ranks, you’re less likely to transition into MMA. This might explain the higher standard of grappling in MMA relative to that of boxing/kickboxing.[/quote]
There’s no standard of grappling in boxing, if you tried to grapple you’d most likely be deducted points seeing as it’s illegal. The closest thing to training grappling is learning how to tie someone up.
[quote]rundymc wrote:
LOL, worded that last sentence improperly. I meant the standard of grappling in MMA is better than the standard of striking (in MMA).[/quote]
I was wondering about that, I figured you’d just watched tape of Bernard Hopkins and thought some boxers spend time wrestling though.