[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Is everybody on Androgel? I just went in and had my test done and am awaiting results.
Tired, sluggish, anxiety. I’m On Effexor EX, but it does not help with the tiredness. I talked my doc into doing bloodwork today. Hopefully I’m good, but if not, I know he will help me out.[/quote]
Well reading was 356 Total T. I don’t have the details on free yet. The reading was taken at about 4:30 pm though, so I assume my AM test levels would be around 4-500?
Any guesses?
Well, there is a lot of depression on this thread. The side effects of SSRI’s are horrible and tend to create problems that testosterone typically helps with. The best result would be to go on test and then be able to drop the SSRI’s.
Another option is SAMe, a natural compound that has no side effects. The best product that I know of is from LEF.org
http://search.lef.org/search/default.aspx?s=1&QUERY=557
It can work quite quickly. You might find that after taking SAMe with your SSRI that you might feel better and want to try the SAMe alone. SAMe is not cheap, but perhaps not much more than some spend on co-pays.
Fish oils can help as well as other things, read the articles on depression at LEF.org
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Is everybody on Androgel? I just went in and had my test done and am awaiting results.
Tired, sluggish, anxiety. I’m On Effexor EX, but it does not help with the tiredness. I talked my doc into doing bloodwork today. Hopefully I’m good, but if not, I know he will help me out.
Well reading was 356 Total T. I don’t have the details on free yet. The reading was taken at about 4:30 pm though, so I assume my AM test levels would be around 4-500?
Any guesses?[/quote]
Absolutely impossible to tell and you should get retested, getting in any and all bloodwork by 9am if possible
[quote]hankr wrote:
I think it was TC who had the best suggestion: get your levels checked when you are 25, and use that as a benchmark for the rest of your life.[/quote]
Don’t think you will find better advice than this anywhere.
Even if you are 35 or younger, getting your levels checked will still give you a good datum. It is understood that levels at 35 are typically lower than levels at 25, but it can give you a good “lowest” level indication that you want to be at.
I will also go as far as stating that women should probably also get their hormone profile checked around 25 years old or so: estrodiol, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA, thyroid.
Though there is alot of negative publicity these days regarding hormone replacement therapy for women, I believe most of the negatives are a result of not knowing what a “normal” level is for a specific individual’s body.
[quote]KSman wrote:
What messes up women who are suffering from menopause, is getting put on SSRI’s then loosing more sexual ability. With men, there is less of an event and the changes are so slow, many do not even know that they have lost.
When I had my transient libido surge when starting test cyp, it was WTF!!! “So that is what things were like when I was young.” You don’t know what you have lost.
And the cruel thing, as others have pointed out, is that this increased libido is transient and you then know what you are missing. I am struggling to understand if that is from the body/brain simply getting used to that, or lower free testosterone as estrogen increases which increases SHBG and the increased estrogens direct -ve effects.
Adding to the confusion is what is known about deca dick and the effects of (too much) progesterone; combined with a few things on the net that statements that a small bit of progesterone increases libido in men. Further there are statements that an increase in estrogen as a transient effect on libido. So the increase of estrogen might itself be contributing to the transient libido, before it does its -ve things.
I wish that there was some hard info on these things. I would like to find something that simply states that free testosterone is the dominant driver of libido.
I would like to see the results of a pre HRT blood panel, then have the guy show up for a blood panel right when he feels that he simply needs to line the ladies up and do them all, then another blood panel after 3 months when things settle done. That would really have some interesting data. The on could use that second blood panel as a therapeutic objective.[/quote]
Another thing that would be interesting for most men is getting their levels of estrodiol, DHT, and progesterone checked along with their testosterone.
There are some folks on this board (poor guys) who take TRT but still have low levels. Could be absorption issues with the gels or creams, or it could be those individual’s bodies converting the test quickly into something else. For these folks, taking some small amount of anti-aromatase could help.
I think the small amount of estrogen or progresterone needed for a healthy libido is yet another issue that alot of people on HRT are not looking closely at.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Is everybody on Androgel? I just went in and had my test done and am awaiting results.
Tired, sluggish, anxiety. I’m On Effexor EX, but it does not help with the tiredness. I talked my doc into doing bloodwork today. Hopefully I’m good, but if not, I know he will help me out.[/quote]
Hi RS, just wondering how the effexor works for you. My T replacement has raised my numbers but not my energy or mood. Might be time for me to get some meds for the anxiety and depression.
Anyone out there to recommend an effective med that wont kill my ability to sleep…? Thanks and best to all. PV
[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Is everybody on Androgel? I just went in and had my test done and am awaiting results.
Tired, sluggish, anxiety. I’m On Effexor EX, but it does not help with the tiredness. I talked my doc into doing bloodwork today. Hopefully I’m good, but if not, I know he will help me out.
Hi RS, just wondering how the effexor works for you. My T replacement has raised my numbers but not my energy or mood. Might be time for me to get some meds for the anxiety and depression.
Anyone out there to recommend an effective med that wont kill my ability to sleep…? Thanks and best to all. PV
[/quote]
I really want off the Effexor. Lexapro worked well for me though.
I stopped effexor at 75 mgpd, and after day 3 I started to get anxiety rushes, which I’ve NEVER had before.
Now I’m on 150 mg…go figure. I hate the shit, but apparantly I need it and that’s the scarey part and why I want off antidepressants.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Is everybody on Androgel? I just went in and had my test done and am awaiting results.
Tired, sluggish, anxiety. I’m On Effexor EX, but it does not help with the tiredness. I talked my doc into doing bloodwork today. Hopefully I’m good, but if not, I know he will help me out.
Hi RS, just wondering how the effexor works for you. My T replacement has raised my numbers but not my energy or mood. Might be time for me to get some meds for the anxiety and depression.
Anyone out there to recommend an effective med that wont kill my ability to sleep…? Thanks and best to all. PV
I really want off the Effexor. Lexapro worked well for me though.
I stopped effexor at 75 mgpd, and after day 3 I started to get anxiety rushes, which I’ve NEVER had before.
Now I’m on 150 mg…go figure. I hate the shit, but apparantly I need it and that’s the scarey part and why I want off antidepressants.[/quote]
just curious- why did you stop the Lexapro if it was working? I tried it for 5 days and it was not too
pleasant for me - I got no sleep at all, I mean zero,
for 5 days. If the effexor is not happening for you,
there is alot of other stuff. Look around and you will see stories of people who did poorly with one
med and great with another. Keep looking for what works. best of luck and keep us posted. PV
[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Is everybody on Androgel? I just went in and had my test done and am awaiting results.
Tired, sluggish, anxiety. I’m On Effexor EX, but it does not help with the tiredness. I talked my doc into doing bloodwork today. Hopefully I’m good, but if not, I know he will help me out.
Hi RS, just wondering how the effexor works for you. My T replacement has raised my numbers but not my energy or mood. Might be time for me to get some meds for the anxiety and depression.
Anyone out there to recommend an effective med that wont kill my ability to sleep…? Thanks and best to all. PV
I really want off the Effexor. Lexapro worked well for me though.
I stopped effexor at 75 mgpd, and after day 3 I started to get anxiety rushes, which I’ve NEVER had before.
Now I’m on 150 mg…go figure. I hate the shit, but apparantly I need it and that’s the scarey part and why I want off antidepressants.
just curious- why did you stop the Lexapro if it was working? I tried it for 5 days and it was not too
pleasant for me - I got no sleep at all, I mean zero,
for 5 days. If the effexor is not happening for you,
there is alot of other stuff. Look around and you will see stories of people who did poorly with one
med and great with another. Keep looking for what works. best of luck and keep us posted. PV
[/quote]
I had a problem climaxing during sex on Lexapro. I could last looong, but the end game just would not come to easily.
[quote]PV Wolf wrote:
gdm wrote:
Okay, after two months of Androgel at 5gms a day (and a very brief period(1 week) at 10gms a day), here are the test results:
Total: 789 (up from about 300)
Free: 25 (up from about 7)
All the previous negative symptoms I had are improving at a rapid clip, especially in the last couple of weeks. I have also lost several pounds of bodyfat and my strength levels are up for the first time in a long time. The most noticeable change has been my energy levels as they have greatly improved.
I’m soldiering on at 5gms and hopefully things will get even better. The moral of the story is that you should give the gel at least a couple of months. I almost jumped ship after a few weeks and that would have been a big mistake.
PV - how is it going? I hope to hear some good news from you.
gdm
Hey GDM- I got my numbers last week. After just over a month on 10g, I am
at : 639 total, 18.5 free (up from 234
and 9) so the numbers are good and I am
feeling some definite improvement but not yet my old self. Libido is way up but I am still tired with a good bit of brain fuzz and low feeling remaining.
Hope you are continuing your good results. PV[/quote]
PV,
Very glad to hear your numbers went up. I’m still going strong. I haven’t posted in awhile as work has been brutal lately. I’m continuing on with the 5gms/day. My sleep hasn’t been as good as I would like so I ordered a few bottles of ZMA to see if that helps.
Rockscar - I tried Effexor a few years back and it actually worked fairly well. I did have the “delayed orgasm” problem and because of that and a few other side effects I stopped taking it. The side effects when I stopped were absolutely horrendous - the dreaded brain zaps. There are protocols out there to mitigate the effects but I didn’t follow them. I’m not on any other meds other then the gel right now and I feel good.
I’ll report back when I get me T levels checked again (in a few weeeks).
Best wishes to all.
gdm
[quote]gdm wrote:
The side effects when I stopped were absolutely horrendous - the dreaded brain zaps. [/quote]
Exactly. The shit is scaring me now. I need to stay on it to stop the brain (Zaps) or rushes…but zap is a good description of it too.
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
gdm wrote:
The side effects when I stopped were absolutely horrendous - the dreaded brain zaps.
Exactly. The shit is scaring me now. I need to stay on it to stop the brain (Zaps) or rushes…but zap is a good description of it too.
[/quote]
The brain zaps do go away on their own after a while, so knowing that can make that tolerable until your brain re-wires itself. But after its all over, you will not be an emotionally zombie anymore and will feel life. Depression is an emotion and for ?some?all? anti depressants work by removing ones emotions. pls consider the SAMe
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I used Androgel for HRT for about 10 months. Please realize that the gel was designed to bring us low-T guys up to muster. Using it for ‘enhancement’ will simply lead to long term shutdown of your natural T.
If you do this, you’ll need to treat it as a mild cycle of steroids. That means you have to follow the protocols outlined in the Steroids section. If you don’t, you’ll be WORSE off than now.
Why not try the new Alpha Male? It may get your T up to high normal. Then, failing that get your thyroid checked and have an arginine-infusion GH test.
HH[/quote]
Hey, I’m new here. Can you please give a link of how we should take Androgel as outlined in the Steroids section?
And what is this new Alpha Male and how can we get it?
Also, it seems the consensus here is that Androgel 5 mg/daily works but it takes a couple months to notice the improvement. Do most of the people here who took actually lift weights too and are your T-levels close to normal or normal?
I already lift weights so if I take 5 mg Androgel will it help me get stronger if my T-level is 357?
There seems to be some differing opinions here so I’d appreciate all of your input and if you have a good source please show that.
Thanks a lot, guys.
Guys, I was put on lexapro and wellbutrin 3 years ago for depression, I believe my hormone were contributing to my depression, I researched and found out about hormones had them tested and got surprised how poor my numbers were.
T was 350 400 - 1200 range
e2 81 10 - 50 range
everything came out equally poor, cortisol included.
AD suck and should be avoided. Th e Only way to get off them is a 10% reduction every 3 to 6 weeks
go to http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7to learn
I started androgel a week ago, added T3 for my hypothyroid condition, B12 shots for good measure. Feel freaking great.
I think it is prudent to START on a gel or cream , then consider shots later .
I have puffy nipples from 30 years ago, I am concerned about gyne, byt KSMAN got me some good info to bring to my doctor attention. Schedule for retest in a week or so
I am concerned about my own levels dropping , leaving me with a net loss on T. I am on 5ml on androgel
I was on compounded get, it sucked
Do NOT RELY ON AD MEDS.
The guy that quit CT made a mistake, now youre on 150 mg instead of 75 mg. Psych docs are clueless of withdraw of AD, there is a definate withdraw syndrome. When one cold Turk of meds , end up feeling like shi…t docs see, you need the meds, take more.
happydog posted this in another thread about androgel
FROM John Crisler,
tESTOSTERONE GELS AND CREAMS
The only way to go, in my professional opinion, if physician and patient prefer a transdermal delivery system. They are easy to apply, well absorbed, and rapidly establish stable serum androgen levels (usually by the end of the second day). I recommend all practitioners first try a testosterone gel for their TRT patients.
Much is made of the risk posed by accidental transferal of testosterone to others, such as children or sexual partners. Simply covering with a T-shirt has been shown to block transfer of the hormone. The testosterone sinks into the skin within an hour, which acts as the actual reservoir for the hormone�??s delivery. One may then shower, or even swim, without worry. I remind my patients that most of us have neither the time, nor the opportunity, for romance until evening (given the recommended early morning application), and a quick shower is always nice to “freshen up” then anyway.
Gels and creams, like all transdermal delivery systems, provide a bigger boost in DHT levels, compared to injectable testosterone preparations. This can be a double-edged sword. As DHT is responsible for all the things of manhood, the transdermals are better at treating ED than the injectables. However, issues of hair loss and possible prostate morbidity (a contentiously debatable point, to be sure) then come into play. Either way, please make sure to monitor DHT with the transdermals. I�??m just not comfortable with gross elevations in DHT, and prefer to avoid adding finasteride whenever possible.
Some have reported an increase in hair growth over the application area(s). All physicians who administer TRT must be prepared to disappoint their patients at this time by pointing out, sadly, this same effect cannot be achieved on the scalp.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Here’s a must-read:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/2085
Good luck!
HH[/quote]
the study mentioned in the article above was paid for by the company that makes andogel!!! read the entire article and footnotes
[quote]matthewt wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Here’s a must-read:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/2085
Good luck!
HH
the study mentioned in the article above was paid for by the company that makes andogel!!! read the entire article and footnotes
[/quote]
“mean serum estradiol/T ratio doubled” They do not want to disclose how much T was increased. Lets say that they increased TT from 300 → 600. So they doubled TT, and doubled the E:T ratio. That would mean that E2 levels are increased by a factor of four. Some men would be less and many more than that.
“Efficacy data were presented in 123 subjects considered evaluable.” -does that mean that they cherry picked from the 163 men who started? I assume that they eliminated the non-responders.
“Continuous AndroGel treatment normalized mean serum T and free T levels.” So TT was within lab normal ranges? That can include a lot of poor results.
All that they stated was that TT, FT and E2 went up. T:E ratios declined [bummer]. The whole idea is to improve the T:E ratio, not make it worse. This is a failure.
They do not talk about the dose-response in the context of the standard achieved with injection.
[quote]KSman wrote:
matthewt wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Here’s a must-read:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/5/2085
Good luck!
HH
the study mentioned in the article above was paid for by the company that makes andogel!!! read the entire article and footnotes
“mean serum estradiol/T ratio doubled” They do not want to disclose how much T was increased. Lets say that they increased TT from 300 → 600. So they doubled TT, and doubled the E:T ratio. That would mean that E2 levels are increased by a factor of four. Some men would be less and many more than that.
“Efficacy data were presented in 123 subjects considered evaluable.” -does that mean that they cherry picked from the 163 men who started? I assume that they eliminated the non-responders.
“Continuous AndroGel treatment normalized mean serum T and free T levels.” So TT was within lab normal ranges? That can include a lot of poor results.
All that they stated was that TT, FT and E2 went up. T:E ratios declined [bummer]. The whole idea is to improve the T:E ratio, not make it worse. This is a failure.
They do not talk about the dose-response in the context of the standard achieved with injection.
[/quote]
KSman, you busted them out!!!
KSman with my T/E ratio of 4/1 [ 357/81] that prolly eexplain why I make no gains in my excersice for the last year.
I am really hoping the T gel get me from T-357 to 700. But i am afraid my E is going up as we speak,. Doc not convinced I need a AI with a E level of 81 [ 10-50 range] , he said loose weight and E will go down.
[quote]cej wrote:
PV Wolf wrote:
Hi - I am new to the site. I went to my doc 7 mos. ago for depression and anxiety which seemed to come on very quickly but was preceded by months and months of constant tiredness and foggy head.
Libido is maybe slightly diminished but
mood / foggy head is my main problem.
My doc tested for low T - my numbers are:
free T … 9.7
total T … 234
Is this considered hypogonadal?
she prescribed Androgel once a day 5g.
my question : can anyone share their experience with Androgel as it has affected mood/ anxiety / depression/
and the foggy, full head feeling ?
I have not started using it yet and I
would like to know what to expect and specifically - how long for the mood
improvement, if any. Thanks for this site - I have learned more about low T
from these posts than from anywhere else.
I was in the same boat with depression and anxiety. My levels were nearly the same as yours prior to starting Androgel.
I am now taking 7.5 mg daily and feel MUCH better. My overall sense of well being (not to mention libido) is much better as a result of Androgel. I suspect you will feel much better as well.
Good Luck!
[/quote]
I am in the same boat as both of you.
My T was 350 [400-1200 range], my Estrodiol was 81 [ 10-50 range] , I am hypothyroid also, I am on 2 anti depressant for 3 years. Started androgel 3 and 1/2 weeks ago, depression lifted in days, gel did what no antidepressent ever did. I have started a slow taper off the AD.
I have a endo that gave me the gel, but I doubt he will give me AI, hcg or anything good protocol requires. I know my E is rising as my already puffy nipples from 30 years ago may be getting worse.
After 3 weeks of gel, I get my T tested, waiting on results
, after 3 weeks of 4 pumps[ 5g ] depression tried to come back in, so I upped to 6 pumps or 7.5 grams.I am feeling well once again.
Too make a long story short, I had some serious problems with family and deaths, my health was poor. I was hospitalized for depression nd put on AD meds, My hormones where NEVER tested, after 3 years I decided to get hormones tested and reading links between depression and hormones. My guess was right freaking horrible numbers. Low T, H E, hi cortisol at all 4 times of the day. Other numbers were bad two.
Going doc to doc at my own expense finally got the A gel and it has worked wonders.
I BELIEVE MY DEPRESSION ISSUE ARE AT LEAST IN PART FROM MY HORMONES AND ADRENAL FATIGUE.
I have been lifting weights, elliptical machine, I stopped drinking and nicotine use after 25 years of use… I am on the right track and this site is a HUGE part of my success. I still need to learn what to tell or ask my doc about TRT as most are clueless. I am relying on you folks in here. KSman has been a tremendous help.
BTW I am a foundation, structural, concrete, masonry waterproofing contractor, ask me if you need help in that area, thats one thing I am good at
mtaylorenterprise.com
thanks for all your help guys, soooooo thankfull
Matt , Maryland
well ,with me on androgel for 6 weeks my T at 166 [350-1200 range]i do not feel all that great,
free T 25 [ 52-280 range]
my egg head endo is on vacation till august and his advice was to take more gel! I would slap his face but with T level AT 166 his nurses could beat me up.
I going to another doc Tues with all my supporting documents in hand.
I have read 500 post or more on this and other sites, I think T shots, if done right are favored 10 to 1 over the creams. I can say I tried a gel and it did not work, time to try shots.
I have not had a boner in so long the poor thing look like a turtle head half hiding in its shell.
The extra penis skin has not been stretch in so long I thing it melded together like a web foot, an erection may tear it .
One thing about a tiny shriveled dead penis is its easy to pee, may have start sitting and peeing!
O’ how I miss the days when I had a tent in the bed [ bed sheet over erection]. that sheet tent slept four adult!
This is my first time and I am not really sure how this works so bare with me. I have had cronic fatigue since I was 18 ( now 36). I finally got my T done and it wasin the mid 100’s. I tried diff compounds and got some results but not to much. I went to a different Dr and he wanted to use Androgel specificlly. No compound, to inconsistant he said. 5G a day and 75 mg of Synthroid. Like others, I felt great at first.
It has been about 2 1/2 mon and my Libido is still up there but I feel like crap again. I think I feel like my estrogen is high and I look flat and have miner gyno. Luckily I am in pretty good shape so only I can tell. I am not taking it for looks. I play soccer and work out. I have an incredibly healthy lifestyle. My endurance have been crazy bad, got a little better and is low again. I am exausted all the time. I think that Andro is great but do I need an anti-estrogen to go with it? With out it, I am afraid that I will have nothing again. I am not married and with out Andro, I might as well give it up because I won’t even look at girls. With it, I look at everything. It’s great and makes me feel normal. Any advice?