I had one more month on an Androgel prescription (I had recently switched to Testim) so decided to switch for a month. It’s usually a good idea to vary your therapy. After about a week, I felt like absolute shit! No details, but was also lucky to avoid jail time for fighting.
I went back to Testim, and now am feeling much better and more clear-headed.
For me, Androgel is simply crap. Stick with Testim.
Can you provide more helpful details as to why Androgel was “simply crap”?
You mentioned almost getting into a fight. Was this because the Androgel increased your T-levels beyond what you were expecting and you experienced agression issues? Or was it because you were angered that Androgel didn’t have the desired effect?
Detailed feedback comparing your experience with Testim vs. Androgel would be much more benefical for T-Nation readers. Thanks.
[quote]Bliptrip wrote:
Can you provide more helpful details as to why Androgel was “simply crap”?
You mentioned almost getting into a fight. Was this because the Androgel increased your T-levels beyond what you were expecting and you experienced agression issues? Or was it because you were angered that Androgel didn’t have the desired effect?
Detailed feedback comparing your experience with Testim vs. Androgel would be much more benefical for T-Nation readers. Thanks.[/quote]
Sure. Sorry I wasn’t more clear. I had used Androgel last summer. My bloodwork test, both free and bound, barely budged, from 164 mg/dl to 224. Even on 10 g of Androgel/day, I only got into the low 300’s.
Testim raised my total T into the low 400’s, but also greatly improved my free T, the most important one. I began to feel much better.
Anyway, I had a Androgel prescription left over, switched back, and my T obviously plummeted. I felt like absolute shit and, after a brief confrontation, went hunting for a guy at a mall. Since I’m 6’6", 285, I probably would have killed him if I’d found him. (He was very disrespectful to my wife. I avoided him at that moment at my wife’s request. The hunting came later.) I truly felt the difference and am getting more bloodwork at the end of the month.
Seriously, don’t fuck around. Low T is worse than any anabolic 'roid rage IMO. At least when your T is higher, you feel good. I would be less likely to be violent on high T.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Since I’m 6’6", 285, I probably would have killed him if I’d found him. (He was very disrespectful to my wife. I avoided him at that moment at my wife’s request. The hunting came later.) I truly felt the difference and am getting more bloodwork at the end of the month.
Seriously, don’t fuck around. Low T is worse than any anabolic 'roid rage IMO. At least when your T is higher, you feel good. I would be less likely to be violent on high T.
[/quote]
Damn, little guys like HH with Napolean complex.LOL
Low T for me was real ugly too. VERY irritable all of the time, all I wanted to do was sleep. I am now on cypioante 100mg per week and will be adding some arimidex to deal with some minor gyno. Minor gyno to me is like having small heart attack. Testim worked great for me too but my wife was literally repulsed by the smell. That makes “getting close” almost impossible…
[quote]sully’s wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Since I’m 6’6", 285, I probably would have killed him if I’d found him. (He was very disrespectful to my wife. I avoided him at that moment at my wife’s request. The hunting came later.) I truly felt the difference and am getting more bloodwork at the end of the month.
Seriously, don’t fuck around. Low T is worse than any anabolic 'roid rage IMO. At least when your T is higher, you feel good. I would be less likely to be violent on high T.
Damn, little guys like HH with Napolean complex.LOL
Low T for me was real ugly too. VERY irritable all of the time, all I wanted to do was sleep. I am now on cypioante 100mg per week and will be adding some arimidex to deal with some minor gyno. Minor gyno to me is like having small heart attack. Testim worked great for me too but my wife was literally repulsed by the smell. That makes “getting close” almost impossible…
[/quote]
Yeah, its got a pretty intense smell, that’s for sure. I always put it on in the AM so its gone (smell) by later in the day.
Hi HH - Glad you found something that is working for you.
You may recall that I responded well to Androgel (last check I was at 892). Things were OK, but I was a horny dude. The wife is menopausal, so she really isn’t into fun and games right now, so I thought I would come off and “releive the pressure” so to speak. I am back on today.
I should have looked at all my old posts and reminded myself why I went on in the first place. Energy is down, can’t sleep, grouchy and putting weight back on. This after coming off for only one month.
I think that for some of us, this really is a lifetime deal. Also, I wonder how many guys mt age that feel like crap have low T and why it isn’t adressed more in the mainstream media.
Best of luck with the Testim.
why not get the wife a Rx for low-dose T, it would boost her libido…
[quote]hankr wrote:
Hi HH - Glad you found something that is working for you.
You may recall that I responded well to Androgel (last check I was at 892). Things were OK, but I was a horny dude. The wife is menopausal, so she really isn’t into fun and games right now, so I thought I would come off and “releive the pressure” so to speak. I am back on today.
I should have looked at all my old posts and reminded myself why I went on in the first place. Energy is down, can’t sleep, grouchy and putting weight back on. This after coming off for only one month.
I think that for some of us, this really is a lifetime deal. Also, I wonder how many guys mt age that feel like crap have low T and why it isn’t adressed more in the mainstream media.
Best of luck with the Testim.
[/quote]
Yeah, once your on, the ‘boys’ slowly go on a permanent vacation.
I hope the mods don’t mind this: I recently incorporated a product called Novedex (not the drug Nolvadex). I know those are almost always a rip-off but I read so many posts on other boards praising it, I tried a bottle. It seems to be bringing my natural T up somewhat.
I do know that some supp companies blatantly pimp their product around (which is not me, btw) but it seems to be helping. Its pretty cheap too.
Why the heck would I try another product when my level before Androgel use was 300 and now it is 968 as of yesterday with 7.5 gm of gel a day.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I had one more month on an Androgel prescription (I had recently switched to Testim) so decided to switch for a month. It’s usually a good idea to vary your therapy. After about a week, I felt like absolute shit! No details, but was also lucky to avoid jail time for fighting.
I went back to Testim, and now am feeling much better and more clear-headed.
For me, Androgel is simply crap. Stick with Testim.[/quote]
Why on earth would someone vary therapy?
[quote]BradleyGrunner wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I had one more month on an Androgel prescription (I had recently switched to Testim) so decided to switch for a month. It’s usually a good idea to vary your therapy. After about a week, I felt like absolute shit! No details, but was also lucky to avoid jail time for fighting.
I went back to Testim, and now am feeling much better and more clear-headed.
For me, Androgel is simply crap. Stick with Testim.
Why on earth would someone vary therapy?[/quote]
Why does Cy Wilson tell us to take time off from supps every 12 weeks? Our bodies adapt quickly. By varying your supps, meds, workout routine, you probably will get better results over time.
My body may stop responding to Testim as well. Them, I’ll have to begin shots, pellet implants, whatever. That’s why you have to get periodic blood draws, to see if your meds are still doing the job.
Thanks for elaborating, HH.
Some HRT specialists are now recommending weekly low-dose HCG as a way to keep testicular shrinkage at bay during testosterone replacement therapy. Google “TRT HCG” for info.
[quote]Bliptrip wrote:
Thanks for elaborating, HH.
Some HRT specialists are now recommending weekly low-dose HCG as a way to keep testicular shrinkage at bay during testosterone replacement therapy. Google “TRT HCG” for info.[/quote]
Thank you! I’ll show some of this to my doc next week. Great heads up!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Why does Cy Wilson tell us to take time off from supps every 12 weeks? Our bodies adapt quickly. By varying your supps, meds, workout routine, you probably will get better results over time.
My body may stop responding to Testim as well. Them, I’ll have to begin shots, pellet implants, whatever. That’s why you have to get periodic blood draws, to see if your meds are still doing the job.
[/quote]
No, no, no. You should never stop or switch up your HRT. THis is a completely different subject. Don’t take Cy Wilson’s advice from one subject and try to imply it to another. That’s a recipe for disaster.
For SAFE, effective HRT, you need to find what works best for you and then stick to it. There’s no going back. As my doc says when asked if HRT is for life, he responds, “No, you can always go back to the way you used to feel.” HRT is for life and so what. As long as you feel better and are healthy (which you will be if on an appropriate HRT dose) who cares.
HcG is used best with a small 250IU shot twice a week. This keeps the balls working somewhat yet it’s not too much that your estrogen will raise significantly. Also too much HcG long-term will cause your testicles to become non-responsive to it. The 250IU 2x/week seems ideal. HcG (an analog of LH) also has other positive effects besides raising testosterone levels. There are also LH receptors in the brain. Adding HcG usually increases energy and sense of well-being beyond what the extra testosterone would give. If you think you feel good now, HcG shots in addition to Test will make you feel even better (and younger!).
BUt please, if you know what works for you, don’t change therapies! Varying test levels (going from high normal to low or below normal and back) is dangerous and NOT healthy. You’re asking for trouble.
[quote]greatgro wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Why does Cy Wilson tell us to take time off from supps every 12 weeks? Our bodies adapt quickly. By varying your supps, meds, workout routine, you probably will get better results over time.
My body may stop responding to Testim as well. Them, I’ll have to begin shots, pellet implants, whatever. That’s why you have to get periodic blood draws, to see if your meds are still doing the job.
No, no, no. You should never stop or switch up your HRT. THis is a completely different subject. Don’t take Cy Wilson’s advice from one subject and try to imply it to another. That’s a recipe for disaster.
For SAFE, effective HRT, you need to find what works best for you and then stick to it. There’s no going back. As my doc says when asked if HRT is for life, he responds, “No, you can always go back to the way you used to feel.” HRT is for life and so what. As long as you feel better and are healthy (which you will be if on an appropriate HRT dose) who cares.
HcG is used best with a small 250IU shot twice a week. This keeps the balls working somewhat yet it’s not too much that your estrogen will raise significantly. Also too much HcG long-term will cause your testicles to become non-responsive to it. The 250IU 2x/week seems ideal. HcG (an analog of LH) also has other positive effects besides raising testosterone levels. There are also LH receptors in the brain. Adding HcG usually increases energy and sense of well-being beyond what the extra testosterone would give. If you think you feel good now, HcG shots in addition to Test will make you feel even better (and younger!).
BUt please, if you know what works for you, don’t change therapies! Varying test levels (going from high normal to low or below normal and back) is dangerous and NOT healthy. You’re asking for trouble.
[/quote]
You actually sound much smarter than several docs I went to, before finding a decent one! Thank you for the help, I truly appreciate it!
I need to definitely do more homework on this.
Just got the results back from my last T-test and my total was 290. And, Free T was also at the low-low end of “normal”. “Normal”, so the doctor says.
This test was my second after a T-level of 320 about two months ago, and having all the symptoms common with low T. This second round of blood test work also included LH, Proactin, and all the other test to determine any additional problems.
Long story short, being in my mid-30’s, and relaitively good shape, the doc says, “your within normal range, low normal, but normal. I don’t think that you need it YET. Maybe in a few years when you down below, like 250”.
So, my answer back to the doc was, “how would you (the doc) like to be at this level and dealing with the assocciated symtoms?” Then I proceeded with, “How do we know that ~300 is normal for me?”
He responded with, “Come in early next week and we’ll proceed forward with treatment”. Since my results, and the preceding conversation took place over the phone, I have an appointment Monday.
This post is two-fold. First, I believe more and more younger folks are experiencing low levels of T. And, go un-noticed because many doc’s aren’t as knowledgable as they should be on the subject matter. And, second, the way that I was able to respond to the doc’s reluctance to proceed with TRT was due to some of the great info that I read on this website.
[quote]big_mike wrote:
Just got the results back from my last T-test and my total was 290. And, Free T was also at the low-low end of “normal”. “Normal”, so the doctor says.
This test was my second after a T-level of 320 about two months ago, and having all the symptoms common with low T. This second round of blood test work also included LH, Proactin, and all the other test to determine any additional problems.
Long story short, being in my mid-30’s, and relaitively good shape, the doc says, “your within normal range, low normal, but normal. I don’t think that you need it YET. Maybe in a few years when you down below, like 250”.
So, my answer back to the doc was, “how would you (the doc) like to be at this level and dealing with the assocciated symtoms?” Then I proceeded with, “How do we know that ~300 is normal for me?”
He responded with, “Come in early next week and we’ll proceed forward with treatment”. Since my results, and the preceding conversation took place over the phone, I have an appointment Monday.
This post is two-fold. First, I believe more and more younger folks are experiencing low levels of T. And, go un-noticed because many doc’s aren’t as knowledgable as they should be on the subject matter. And, second, the way that I was able to respond to the doc’s reluctance to proceed with TRT was due to some of the great info that I read on this website.
[/quote]
Good post and glad you got treatment. I used to just accept whatever a doctor said…now, I battle them. If a doc doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground, I leave at once. I was surprised by how lacking in knowledge some of these guys are, even in their specialty!
Remember Frank Burns, in the old MAS*H tv show? I’m beginning to believe he is the norm and Hawkeye is the rarity.
[quote]big_mike wrote:
Just got the results back from my last T-test and my total was 290. And, Free T was also at the low-low end of “normal”. “Normal”, so the doctor says.
This test was my second after a T-level of 320 about two months ago, and having all the symptoms common with low T. This second round of blood test work also included LH, Proactin, and all the other test to determine any additional problems.
Long story short, being in my mid-30’s, and relaitively good shape, the doc says, “your within normal range, low normal, but normal. I don’t think that you need it YET. Maybe in a few years when you down below, like 250”.
So, my answer back to the doc was, “how would you (the doc) like to be at this level and dealing with the assocciated symtoms?” Then I proceeded with, “How do we know that ~300 is normal for me?”
He responded with, “Come in early next week and we’ll proceed forward with treatment”. Since my results, and the preceding conversation took place over the phone, I have an appointment Monday.
This post is two-fold. First, I believe more and more younger folks are experiencing low levels of T. And, go un-noticed because many doc’s aren’t as knowledgable as they should be on the subject matter. And, second, the way that I was able to respond to the doc’s reluctance to proceed with TRT was due to some of the great info that I read on this website.
[/quote]
I think you’re right. I’m in my late twenties, and have had the symptoms of low T for years. (Irritability, over weight, frequent sickness, and no gains at the gym even after working with several trainers for five years or more.) Then two years ago my doctor diagnosed me with low T, but said it wasn’t the kind of thing he would treat. Now I see a specialist, but since my doctor refuses to give me a referral, I have to pay out of pocket for all the blood tests and office visits.
-A.
[quote]abudney wrote:
big_mike wrote:
Just got the results back from my last T-test and my total was 290. And, Free T was also at the low-low end of “normal”. “Normal”, so the doctor says.
This test was my second after a T-level of 320 about two months ago, and having all the symptoms common with low T. This second round of blood test work also included LH, Proactin, and all the other test to determine any additional problems.
Long story short, being in my mid-30’s, and relaitively good shape, the doc says, “your within normal range, low normal, but normal. I don’t think that you need it YET. Maybe in a few years when you down below, like 250”.
So, my answer back to the doc was, “how would you (the doc) like to be at this level and dealing with the assocciated symtoms?” Then I proceeded with, “How do we know that ~300 is normal for me?”
He responded with, “Come in early next week and we’ll proceed forward with treatment”. Since my results, and the preceding conversation took place over the phone, I have an appointment Monday.
This post is two-fold. First, I believe more and more younger folks are experiencing low levels of T. And, go un-noticed because many doc’s aren’t as knowledgable as they should be on the subject matter. And, second, the way that I was able to respond to the doc’s reluctance to proceed with TRT was due to some of the great info that I read on this website.
I think you’re right. I’m in my late twenties, and have had the symptoms of low T for years. (Irritability, over weight, frequent sickness, and no gains at the gym even after working with several trainers for five years or more.) Then two years ago my doctor diagnosed me with low T, but said it wasn’t the kind of thing he would treat. Now I see a specialist, but since my doctor refuses to give me a referral, I have to pay out of pocket for all the blood tests and office visits.
-A.[/quote]
Sounds like you’ve got an HMO plan there, out for the buck and screw the patient. Any way to opt out of it?
I’ve come pretty close to ‘blowing up’ at several doctors, especially the one who told me a 300 level total T reading was ‘just fine’. Another one, with the same blood reading in his hands, actually said I should cut back on the Androgel I was taking at the time.
Is it some kind of conspiracy to turn us all into eunuchs? Damn doctors!!
(Sorry about the rant, guys!)
[quote]sully’s wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Since I’m 6’6", 285, I probably would have killed him if I’d found him. (He was very disrespectful to my wife. I avoided him at that moment at my wife’s request. The hunting came later.) I truly felt the difference and am getting more bloodwork at the end of the month.
Seriously, don’t fuck around. Low T is worse than any anabolic 'roid rage IMO. At least when your T is higher, you feel good. I would be less likely to be violent on high T.
Damn, little guys like HH with Napolean complex.LOL
Low T for me was real ugly too. VERY irritable all of the time, all I wanted to do was sleep. I am now on cypioante 100mg per week and will be adding some arimidex to deal with some minor gyno. Minor gyno to me is like having small heart attack. Testim worked great for me too but my wife was literally repulsed by the smell. That makes “getting close” almost impossible…
[/quote]
Mine hates the smell too. Usually I put it on in the morning before I train and it’s gone by the time I’m back home and showered and ready for work. I may lose a little on the t levels, but the happy wife works for me!!!