Wider Shoulders

Training
61

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]giograves wrote:
Chris, where are you? lol

Man, the upper back, glutes, abs, just about every thing gets a great workout from OHP at least for me (at beginner weight 100lbs). But yeah for shoulder sculpting, mountain dog stuff seems to be the way. [/quote]

“â?¢ It’s just about impossible to build an impressive physique without overhead pressing exercises. They build your delts like no other exercise, and also contribute to your traps and triceps.”

I loled.[/quote]
If you’re going to criticize someone’s professional work, at least back up your points properly. not very classy

62

Nothing has helped my shoulders like meadows stuff my right shoulder was severely atrophied after surgery and once I stopped doing heavy OHP pressing and upright rows and focused more on the heavy partials and " destroyer" sets is when the muscle came back to life… and quick. Its what worked for me its still not where I would like to be but it is a big improvement. Upright rows and such really weren’t helping fill out the shoulder girdle

63

Kinda strange where this thread went. We’ve discussed ad nausaeum various deltoid training protocols. (Just look through the last month of threads, there were some great threads.)

I was pretty much just asking about changes to the shoulder girdle over time. Thanks to those who actually read the question.

64

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Kinda strange where this thread went. We’ve discussed ad nausaeum various deltoid training protocols. (Just look through the last month of threads, there were some great threads.)

I was pretty much just asking about changes to the shoulder girdle over time. Thanks to those who actually read the question.[/quote]

Human nature

65

Nothing has helped my shoulders like meadows stuff my right shoulder was severely atrophied after surgery and once I stopped doing heavy OHP pressing and upright rows and focused more on the heavy partials and " destroyer" sets is when the muscle came back to life… and quick. Its what worked for me its still not where I would like to be but it is a big improvement. Upright rows and such really weren’t helping fill out the shoulder girdle

66

With your original question lorez I went through a period during my A school where I couldn’t go to the gym on base due to working hours. Outside of our barracks we had some staggered pull up and dip bars. So for about six months all I did was calisthenics and kettlebell work. I forget which book by pavel I read but I did a lot of kb snatch and pull up ladders working up to weighted pull ups by hooking the bell around my foot emphasizing the negative portion. I

also used bands to take the tension off and really stretch and contract the lats. The snatches also work the shoulder girdle quite a bit. The book also recommended a lat stretch where you place both hands on a post bend over to parallel at the hips and kind of push through the lats rather than pull.

Anyway where I’m going with this when I graduated I could barely squeeze into my blues and couldn’t even stand at attention properly ie. shoulders squared scap retracted. I noticed my scapulae seem farther spaced, allong with my ribcage appearing wider. All this could just be in my head though. I don’t know enough to say if someones bone structure could change or if it’s just all illusion.

Old time lifters used to think so especially with newer lifters and other than boot camp I hadn’t done any type of training since highschool prior. And like zraw said what’s a few minutes to stretch really going to hurt?

67

Anyone who has not tried the “Shoulder Shocker” is missing out. I think Meadows came up with it. I have never had a pump in my delta before or since. Totally new feeling.

I do bench presses, incline DB press and weighted dips for chest/triceps. I figure with those 3 heavy compounds why would I need to OHP?

68

[quote]Rush88 wrote:
With your original question lorez I went through a period during my A school where I couldn’t go to the gym on base due to working hours. Outside of our barracks we had some staggered pull up and dip bars. So for about six months all I did was calisthenics and kettlebell work. I forget which book by pavel I read but I did a lot of kb snatch and pull up ladders working up to weighted pull ups by hooking the bell around my foot emphasizing the negative portion. I

also used bands to take the tension off and really stretch and contract the lats. The snatches also work the shoulder girdle quite a bit. The book also recommended a lat stretch where you place both hands on a post bend over to parallel at the hips and kind of push through the lats rather than pull.

Anyway where I’m going with this when I graduated I could barely squeeze into my blues and couldn’t even stand at attention properly ie. shoulders squared scap retracted. I noticed my scapulae seem farther spaced, allong with my ribcage appearing wider. All this could just be in my head though. I don’t know enough to say if someones bone structure could change or if it’s just all illusion.

Old time lifters used to think so especially with newer lifters and other than boot camp I hadn’t done any type of training since highschool prior. And like zraw said what’s a few minutes to stretch really going to hurt?[/quote]

I could believe that dips do some shit to our ribcages. I used to get sternum/xiphoid pain whenever I did weighted dips, which I hear is very common for noobs. I doubt it stretched out much, but it certainly got stronger or conditioned because they don’t hurt anymore.

69

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Anyone who has not tried the “Shoulder Shocker” is missing out. I think Meadows came up with it. I have never had a pump in my delta before or since. Totally new feeling.

I do bench presses, incline DB press and weighted dips for chest/triceps. I figure with those 3 heavy compounds why would I need to OHP?[/quote]

I think it was DeFranco. For those who haven’t seen it, about half way down:

70

[quote]Rush88 wrote:
With your original question lorez I went through a period during my A school where I couldn’t go to the gym on base due to working hours. Outside of our barracks we had some staggered pull up and dip bars. So for about six months all I did was calisthenics and kettlebell work. I forget which book by pavel I read but I did a lot of kb snatch and pull up ladders working up to weighted pull ups by hooking the bell around my foot emphasizing the negative portion. I

also used bands to take the tension off and really stretch and contract the lats. The snatches also work the shoulder girdle quite a bit. The book also recommended a lat stretch where you place both hands on a post bend over to parallel at the hips and kind of push through the lats rather than pull.

Anyway where I’m going with this when I graduated I could barely squeeze into my blues and couldn’t even stand at attention properly ie. shoulders squared scap retracted. I noticed my scapulae seem farther spaced, allong with my ribcage appearing wider. All this could just be in my head though. I don’t know enough to say if someones bone structure could change or if it’s just all illusion.

Old time lifters used to think so especially with newer lifters and other than boot camp I hadn’t done any type of training since highschool prior. And like zraw said what’s a few minutes to stretch really going to hurt?[/quote]

Thanks for that answer.

As far as “bone structure changing”, my understanding is the scapulae mostly just “float” over the underlying substructure, so there’s actually room for it to get wider if you can stretch/modify that over time. I know DC has focused on that to some degree (there’s an old thread on here that I’m not going to dig up.)

I think I have that book from Pavel. If I remember correctly, you basically bend over parallel to the ground, put your hands around a pole, and then use your lats to push forward and down. Does that sound about right?

71

Yeah that “stretch” sounds right. You’ll definitely feel it in your lats. I was doing alot of dips and presses at that that time also.

72

[quote]Cron391 wrote:

[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:

[quote]Cron391 wrote:
Can someone link where it says DB OHP or Arnalod Presses are bad for your shoulder?
People have been doing them for the past 30 years+ with no problems…
Personally I always do them first, and never had any shoulder issues and I press 95lb DB’s[/quote]

CT explained that going heavy (for yourself) and having a range of motion going past your mouth or lower on the essentric phase can put unnecessary stress on tendons and ligaments. [/quote]

Ok so he basically said don’t go too shallow on the press and dont use super heavy weight…never said they are “bad” for you if proper techique is used…

thats like saying leaning forward too much on squats is bad…duh…but dosn’t mean dont do them, just use proper form…

I just find it hard to belive a CLASSIC COMPOUND MOVEMENT is now being removed? So if further research found out that “heavy” benching is bad for your tendons would everyone stop?

ANY one have actually scientific articles that back up this claim?[/quote]

I’m guilty of thread hi-jack with this one. However, because there is misconception out there that one needs OHP in order to build impressive shoulders, I think this is somewhat relevant. After all, if you are injured, you can’t train. And if you can’t train, you will not improve.

Just because a movement is classic does not mean it is suited for everyone. We all bring different histories, body types, and goals to the table. One of the main reasons OHP is not for everyone pertains to the type of acromion you have. Those with type 1 are the least likely suffer impingement issues with OHP. Type 2 folks should take caution. And for the type 3s, OHP is contraindicated.

What is interesting - and highly important - is that people can develop bone spurs on the acromion. In other words, just because a person has type 1 acromion is absolutely positively no guarantee that he cannot develop type 2 or even 3 characteristics in time. Of course, there are the lucky few who will have type 1 all their lives.

Also keep in mind that some of the most accomplished physique athletes drank the kool-aid when they were first starting out and felt obligated to do the “classic” movements. As the lack of progress and injuries piled on, they wised the fuck up and they learned to improve by other means.

It is the rarest of things to see a young man who actually learns from the mistakes of his elders and does everything possible to prevent it from happening to him. I think Mark Twain put it best when he said, “The trouble with youth is that it’s wasted on the young.”

If you can OHP and have the discipline and knowledge to program it correctly, then sure, include it in your tool box. However, do not believe for one minute that it is a must-do movement.

73

on a thread about building wider shoulders, there are comments that the OHP is either out-dated, or just not used altogether?

wow - I just dont believe what I am reading, on a bodybuilding forum, yet.

I have hesitated to comment, Rez, cause I dont want to be just another asshat giving my opinion, but I do want to say, that if you are NOT doing the OHP, you are NOT serious about building your body, or your shoulders in particular.

74

To think this is what replaced SAMA. Horrible, just horrible.

75

Could someone wake me up when overhead pressing is back en vogue?

76

careful - by using this logic, we could surmise that:
Bench pressing is bad
Squats are bad
situps are bad
deadlifts are gawdawful bad

all thats left is kettelbells and crossfit~

FML~

77

[quote]Edgy wrote:

all thats left is kettelbells and crossfit~

FML~[/quote]

Better go get yourself a pair of capris before they’re all gone.

78

[quote]Edgy wrote:
on a thread about building wider shoulders, there are comments that the OHP is either out-dated, or just not used altogether?

wow - I just dont believe what I am reading, on a bodybuilding forum, yet.

I have hesitated to comment, Rez, cause I dont want to be just another asshat giving my opinion, but I do want to say, that if you are NOT doing the OHP, you are NOT serious about building your body, or your shoulders in particular.[/quote]

x2.

I’m not a physique oriented lifter, but OHPing regularly has added a lot of mass to my delts, traps, triceps and upper back.

79

[quote]Consul wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
on a thread about building wider shoulders, there are comments that the OHP is either out-dated, or just not used altogether?

wow - I just dont believe what I am reading, on a bodybuilding forum, yet.

I have hesitated to comment, Rez, cause I dont want to be just another asshat giving my opinion, but I do want to say, that if you are NOT doing the OHP, you are NOT serious about building your body, or your shoulders in particular.[/quote]

x2.

I’m not a physique oriented lifter, but OHPing regularly has added a lot of mass to my delts, traps, triceps and upper back.[/quote]

Same. I’m noticbly wider and more Superman-like since I added in OHP (which was only about 2 months ago :frowning: )

80

[quote]Edgy wrote:
on a thread about building wider shoulders, there are comments that the OHP is either out-dated, or just not used altogether?

wow - I just dont believe what I am reading, on a bodybuilding forum, yet.

I have hesitated to comment, Rez, cause I dont want to be just another asshat giving my opinion, but I do want to say, that if you are NOT doing the OHP, you are NOT serious about building your body, or your shoulders in particular.[/quote]

What’s interesting about this post is that you did in fact give your opinion.

And no, I’m not accusing you of being an asshat because you’re a fan of OHP (just as I hope you didn’t imply the same towards me for giving my thoughts on the subject).

You and the chorus of OHP fans who posted today dismiss the fact that some people simply do not respond well to the OHP.

Go to any given gym and it’s littered with lifters who, at one point thought they were bullet proof and how they look right then and there is all that matters.

That’s okay. You keep doing your thing. You might belong to that lucky segment who will never suffer an injury. Or you’ll be that guy who lurks the injury forum and fattens the wallets of orthos/pts.

As I specifically stated in my earlier post, if the person can OHP and has the discipline and knowledge to program it correctly, they should include it. But for you and others like to you to believe that just because you can do a certain movement pain-free (for NOW anyway) that everyone should follow suit…well, that alone speaks volumes.