Wider Shoulders

Training
81

[quote]56x11 wrote:
You and the chorus of OHP fans who posted today dismiss the fact that some people simply do not respond well to the OHP.
[/quote]

I don’t think the OHP is for everyone. As Eric Cressey says, there are no contraindicated exercises, just contraindicated people, or words to that effect. If your shoulder and thoracic mobility are decent, and you still get pain from OHPing, then it’s just common sense to avoid the exercise. However, no-one should dismiss an exercise before experimenting with it, and there are people who could benefit from OHPing regularly.

Find what works for you, and do that.

82

[quote]56x11 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
on a thread about building wider shoulders, there are comments that the OHP is either out-dated, or just not used altogether?

wow - I just dont believe what I am reading, on a bodybuilding forum, yet.

I have hesitated to comment, Rez, cause I dont want to be just another asshat giving my opinion, but I do want to say, that if you are NOT doing the OHP, you are NOT serious about building your body, or your shoulders in particular.[/quote]

What’s interesting about this post is that you did in fact give your opinion.

And no, I’m not accusing you of being an asshat because you’re a fan of OHP (just as I hope you didn’t imply the same towards me for giving my thoughts on the subject).

You and the chorus of OHP fans who posted today dismiss the fact that some people simply do not respond well to the OHP.

Go to any given gym and it’s littered with lifters who, at one point thought they were bullet proof and how they look right then and there is all that matters.

That’s okay. You keep doing your thing. You might belong to that lucky segment who will never suffer an injury. Or you’ll be that guy who lurks the injury forum and fattens the wallets of orthos/pts.

As I specifically stated in my earlier post, if the person can OHP and has the discipline and knowledge to program it correctly, they should include it. But for you and others like to you to believe that just because you can do a certain movement pain-free (for NOW anyway) that everyone should follow suit…well, that alone speaks volumes. [/quote]

When some posters post verbatim “OHP is the dumbest exercise that should never be performed.” Will lead other posters to defend a movement that has worked for them, which is happening in this thread.

Personally it has benefited me greatly, so when it gets shitted on, I think its natural to defend something you spend time performing knowing your reaping the benefits.

83

[quote]zraw wrote:
Any form of overhead pressing sucks IF DONE AS FIRST EXERCISE, imo.

I sometimes have some kind of overhead pressing in my shoulder routine but as a last exercise when my other delts head are burnt and when my front head is also burnt from the chest pressing.

Fwiw I do not think the front delt contribute much to a “basketball delt” look.[/quote]

Zraw didn’t you say that all you did for delts on DC was OHP? You’re delts were massive then and that was pre Meadows. If that is so how can you say that OHP sucks?

84

it is absolutely my opinion, 56 - as I stated.

the problem with quoting various articles, is that each article will contradict another - its the nature of the business, just like in this forum.

I was not calling you out in particular, but it needs to be emphasized that ANY, repeat ANY exercise if performed incorrectly, or in excess will damage your joints.

the article that were referred to in this thread (yes, I read them) refer to athletes, not the part-time lifters who frequent these forums. athletes train for particluar events and not all PL or BB exercises will assist them in their training. for instance - if I were to train for bowling or golf, I would not emphasize my bench press or bicepts, as they would get in the way, and inhibit my performance.

look man, I am not looking to get into a protracted argument about OHP, or anything else, I just thought the discussion needed another point of view.

85

The OHP definitely has a benefit, but when you’re looking at training specifically with a certain aesthetic in mind (ie. bodybuilding competition), sometimes the focus of your training shifts from the more introductory approach of developing overall strength and thickness.

I would venture a guess that ZRAW and many other competitors (myself included) got something out of the inclusion of OHP in their early development, only to later on move the exercise to a more secondary position. While a big fan of the movement, I realize that it suits MY goals better by positioning it last in my shoulder training (after hitting side and posterior delt heads in a more direct manner).

In general, there will always be people who can benefit from one movement while others don’t, and vice versa. Anyone who throws out such blanket statements about movements being completely worthless is simply showing their small mindedness, and relative lack of experience. Trust me, your perspectives change after a number of years (and injuries -lol.)

S

86

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
The OHP definitely has a benefit, but when you’re looking at training specifically with a certain aesthetic in mind (ie. bodybuilding competition), sometimes the focus of your training shifts from the more introductory approach of developing overall strength and thickness.

I would venture a guess that ZRAW and many other competitors (myself included) got something out of the inclusion of OHP in their early development, only to later on move the exercise to a more secondary position. While a big fan of the movement, I realize that it suits MY goals better by positioning it last in my shoulder training (after hitting side and posterior delt heads in a more direct manner).

In general, there will always be people who can benefit from one movement while others don’t, and vice versa. Anyone who throws out such blanket statements about movements being completely worthless is simply showing their small mindedness, and relative lack of experience. Trust me, your perspectives change after a number of years (and injuries -lol.)

S[/quote]

This pretty much. There is no “right” way to train. There is a bunch of great things that can be applied from the mountain dog articles and in fact i do apply some to my own training. But it is getting realllllllyyyy tiresome coming into every thread and having a bunch of parrots squawking about how anyone who does not adhere to every rule or concept of mountain dog training is doing it wrong.

FYI i am only using mountain dog training as an example because it seems to be the trendy thing that everyone is preaching around here lately.

87

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Your clavicle in one of the last bones to mature meaning you could have growth into your mid-twenties. This along with your spine and jaw. My wisdom teeth are still coming in at 24. Maybe your seeing this or possibly just the illusion of broader shoulders[/quote]

This is great news!!! Lol. Im 18 and I have narrow clavicles. I also broke one of them when I was 13 so one is shorter than the other

88

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
The OHP definitely has a benefit, but when you’re looking at training specifically with a certain aesthetic in mind (ie. bodybuilding competition), sometimes the focus of your training shifts from the more introductory approach of developing overall strength and thickness.

I would venture a guess that ZRAW and many other competitors (myself included) got something out of the inclusion of OHP in their early development, only to later on move the exercise to a more secondary position. While a big fan of the movement, I realize that it suits MY goals better by positioning it last in my shoulder training (after hitting side and posterior delt heads in a more direct manner).

In general, there will always be people who can benefit from one movement while others don’t, and vice versa. Anyone who throws out such blanket statements about movements being completely worthless is simply showing their small mindedness, and relative lack of experience. Trust me, your perspectives change after a number of years (and injuries -lol.)

S[/quote]

Finally an intelligent post

89

[quote]ESX wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:
Any form of overhead pressing sucks IF DONE AS FIRST EXERCISE, imo.

I sometimes have some kind of overhead pressing in my shoulder routine but as a last exercise when my other delts head are burnt and when my front head is also burnt from the chest pressing.

Fwiw I do not think the front delt contribute much to a “basketball delt” look.[/quote]

Zraw didn’t you say that all you did for delts on DC was OHP? You’re delts were massive then and that was pre Meadows. If that is so how can you say that OHP sucks?
[/quote]

I had a big front delt. Only a big front delt

I think lateral delts are wayyyy more important to make a shoulder look good

But thats me

90

[quote]Brian14 wrote:

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Your clavicle in one of the last bones to mature meaning you could have growth into your mid-twenties. This along with your spine and jaw. My wisdom teeth are still coming in at 24. Maybe your seeing this or possibly just the illusion of broader shoulders[/quote]

This is great news!!! Lol. Im 18 and I have narrow clavicles. I also broke one of them when I was 13 so one is shorter than the other[/quote]

If you shoulders are narrow and bodybuilding is truly your goal I would not work traps directly at all. Nothing looks more horrendous then narrow clavicles with a huge neck and traps.

If you clavicles are straight you have a good bone structure you will be able to build a great slablike upper chest. Building your chest properly (not by bench pressing yourself into a breast like formation) will make the impression of much wider shoulders then you actually have. The trick is to get the line under the pec to cast a shadow that flows seamlessly into the shadow of the delts when posing properly. Look up Vince Gironda’s chest dips as they create this look. Then all you have to do is pack some serious meat on the lateral head of the delt and no one will ever think you have narrow clavicles because bodybuilding is an illusion

If they are not fairly straight but instead have a large kink and get to 90% development you end up with the franco columbo like split look. Don’t see why everyone likes it, I think it detracts a little from a great chest but most people would be pleased to have that chest split to look forward to

91

This is just my opinion but from my experience, strict OHP definitely gave me a wider appearance. My training partner who used to be much narrower became noticeably wide after sticking to OHP for months (we don’t do anything but compound lifts). I also believe it’s the heavy OHP that contributes the most to it. We stick with rep ranges 1-3 and do many sets of it.

John Meadow believes Incline Bench Press as well as training the rear delts to be beneficial as well and I think he has a point. Should check out his article on it!

92

1299×769 131 KB

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:

all thats left is kettelbells and crossfit~

FML~[/quote]

Better go get yourself a pair of capris before they’re all gone.[/quote]

93

Where is that article, i think it was by meadows, where it advised doing one non stop set of lateral raises, then front raises then DB press all with the same weight for like 15 reps each. I tried something similar and it gave a massive shoulder burn, but i cant find the article now.

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Articles → Featured Authors → John Meadow

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ahh! so the OHP is bad now. thank you internet gods in your infinite wisdom!

96

[quote]Doh wrote:
This is just my opinion but from my experience, strict OHP definitely gave me a wider appearance. quote]

X2

97

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:

all thats left is kettelbells and crossfit~

FML~[/quote]

Better go get yourself a pair of capris before they’re all gone.[/quote]
[/quote]

silly Dwarfie~

98

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:

[quote]Brian14 wrote:

[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
Your clavicle in one of the last bones to mature meaning you could have growth into your mid-twenties. This along with your spine and jaw. My wisdom teeth are still coming in at 24. Maybe your seeing this or possibly just the illusion of broader shoulders[/quote]

This is great news!!! Lol. Im 18 and I have narrow clavicles. I also broke one of them when I was 13 so one is shorter than the other[/quote]

If you shoulders are narrow and bodybuilding is truly your goal I would not work traps directly at all. Nothing looks more horrendous then narrow clavicles with a huge neck and traps.

If you clavicles are straight you have a good bone structure you will be able to build a great slablike upper chest. Building your chest properly (not by bench pressing yourself into a breast like formation) will make the impression of much wider shoulders then you actually have. The trick is to get the line under the pec to cast a shadow that flows seamlessly into the shadow of the delts when posing properly. Look up Vince Gironda’s chest dips as they create this look. Then all you have to do is pack some serious meat on the lateral head of the delt and no one will ever think you have narrow clavicles because bodybuilding is an illusion

If they are not fairly straight but instead have a large kink and get to 90% development you end up with the franco columbo like split look. Don’t see why everyone likes it, I think it detracts a little from a great chest but most people would be pleased to have that chest split to look forward to [/quote]

Thanks for the tips man. Yeah one of my clavicles is fairly straight but the other is bent downward due to the break. Im more of a powerlifter than bodybuilder but I am interested in aesthetics. Ive mostly done flat bench in the past just to stick t the basics, but I am about to enter a training cyle where I hammer the upper chest, lats, and side/rear delts.