Why Train for Strength If Size Is Wanted?

Training Bodybuilding
261

[quote]dankid wrote:

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
So what were you doing for those 4 years primarily? Did you focus on size/bodybuilding for those 4 years and got up to 200 + and then this last year you focused on strength primarily and just blew up in size? Just curious.

Also curious as to what you currently look like. Since you dish out a huge amount of advice. It would only be fair for the newbies and us novices to see what your way of training has done for you this past year. Since you got “bigger and muscular” this past year as if those other 4 years didn’t do much for you.[/quote]

I know you are trolling, but i’ll amuse you. I probably went through 2 growth spurts during those 4 years, and my training changed a bit (its hard to remember back to what I was doing).

But my training started to come together when I first started using EDT. I got stronger, bigger and leaner, but only to a point. This was my first exposure to some real barbell routines, and I think I did SS a bit, and mainly EDT, and probably a bit of Westside for certain things.

Two of my “problems” were that I wasn’t eating enough (plain and simple i needed to gain weight and eat more to recover) and I was focusing on the “wrong” exercises. I didn’t do much barbell bench pressing, because it had bothered my shoulders in the past and I never had a spotter, and maybe I was lazy. Also I didn’t do squats, because I never took the time to learn them, and enjoyed deadlifting more, and I probably was lazy.

So I really focused on pullups, DB snatches, Deadlifts, and DB floor pressing. And as I got stronger on these lifts, I magically got bigger and leaner, but as I said I wasn’t eating enough, so I eventually stalled on both strength and size. **Also during this time, I was skimboarding a lot (which was a blast) and weight gain wasn’t gonna happen.

((I know though that the training I did during this time was pretty productive and definately enjoyable, so I DO plan on going back to it sometime in the future, but I’ll pay more attention to eating enough and recovery))

So that “phase” took me to around 190’ish and I was pretty lean ~12% or so.

I then fell into the trap of wanting “hot abz” so I started doing different forms of conditioning, like TABATA, and experimenting with cutting and low carb. Im not sure how long this lasted, but I got a bit leaner, but made very little progress during this time, and it was for the most part a waste of time. During this time I was also doing Karate and Kickboxing, which really prevented me from gaining much muscle, but of course my focus was on getting leaner. But ya, didn’t make much progress for this year or two, but had great fun.

Then was my final phase of “success”. I cant remember exactly when this began, but I wanna say about a year ago, or maybe last summer. I started to focus more on size and strength and finally realized that the reason I was too small, was that I wasn’t eating enough. I experimented with Westside for a while, and made some progress, but I was still too inexperienced to do that program without a coach or mentor. Progress was slow, but still better than before.

Then things started to come around when I read Dan John’s article “the 40 day program” It was inspiring, and I went for it, and I ate like a mad man. I was able to put about 15lbs on in about 1-2 months. Yes I know this is fast, and A LOT of it was fat, but I didn’t care. My goal was to move up in weight, not a “clean bulk” or minimizing fat. I just wanted to get used to eating more, and weigh more.

I went into Westside’ish WS4SB and some other strength focused programs for a while, and I cant remember if it happened in one or two phases, but I eventually broke the 200lbs mark, and topped out around 218. I wasn’t gaining a ton of strength during this time, for various reasons, so much of what I gained was fat, but it is now easier for me to maintain a weight of 210+ and I dont look terribly fat with clothes on.

Now where im at, I have some clear goals, and feel ready to pursue those goals. I want bigger arms and more muscle all around, but my goals are mainly performance based. I want to press/bench/squat/deadlift 200/300/400/500 which isn’t spectacular, but is great for me. And I want to weigh somewhere between 220-240. And Im pretty confident that my best bet to achieve these goals is going to be following strength focused programs and eating for progress in strength and body weight.

END OF LONG BORING STORY -

BUT, I will say ive made a lot of mistakes, and learned from both things that worked and things that didn’t work. Its something that you learn as you go, and some people just learn faster than others. And the biggest lesson I learned, was that I NEEDED TO EAT MORE.[/quote]

dude, this post seems very honest… and does you no favours at all. you really need to stop arguing with the big boys all the time, stop handing out advice, and focus on whatever it is you are trying to achieve.

262

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

This is a valid point.[/quote]

Then why are you still typing? Why would you protest us upholding what this forum is supposed to be about yet then claim it is a valid point that those idiots are in the wrong forum?

Why would you tell a group of bodybuilders that they shouldn’t focus on symmetry or balance?

Why the hell are you here in this thread and what point are you even trying to make now if you agree that his point is valid?

263

X, can’t you delete Dankids posts? It’s starting to get ridiculous. Fuck “free speech”, he doesn’t deserve it in here.

264

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

This is a valid point.[/quote]

Then why are you still typing? Why would you protest us upholding what this forum is supposed to be about yet then claim it is a valid point that those idiots are in the wrong forum?

Why would you tell a group of bodybuilders that they shouldn’t focus on symmetry or balance?

Why the hell are you here in this thread and what point are you even trying to make now if you agree that his point is valid?
[/quote]

Wow, you’re an angry person. I’ve never “protested” about this forum. I merely tried to explain why a person looking to gain strength might “accidentally” stumble onto a bodybuilding forum. But I guess you didn’t read that part. Train in whatever way makes you happy.

265

10 pages of uselessness.

266

[quote]alit4 wrote:

dude, this post seems very honest… and does you no favours at all. you really need to stop arguing with the big boys all the time, stop handing out advice, and focus on whatever it is you are trying to achieve.[/quote]

Can you please define for me who the “big boys” are?

267

[quote]Lock wrote:
X, can’t you delete Dankids posts? It’s starting to get ridiculous. Fuck “free speech”, he doesn’t deserve it in here.[/quote]

I’d leave the posts and just ban him or at least suspend his account… I mean, he’s been a known troll for quite some time now… What’s the point of allowing him to pollute the forum further?

How much longer is he going to get away with it?

268

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Dankid, I don’t mean to be offensive or anything, but when you speak, you talk as if no-one else here has experimented or gone through similar things to you? As if they’re just puffed up with pride and dumb…

I joined ages ago when I wasn’t very serious/focused, but after “rejoining” and discussing somewhat about a few months ago (and soaking up the stuff that counts…that is, what’s worked for the real world guys), I’ve made nothing but progress - and that’s because I listened to many of the very one’s you’re criticising. Sure, sometimes you may get slightly offended (when you take things the wrong way), but in the end, it’s really useful, no matter what manner it’s put across.

In fact, I’d say that a so called hard-core attitude, and “no nonsense” approach is necessary in order to be heard above the “keyboard warriors” and nerds with nothing to show for themselves. I always remember training with a hardcore bodybuilder (20+ years experience), and he used to always greet me and my brother (when we came round to train) with a “hello girls!”…it’s all just a laugh lol. But it makes you stronger…[/quote]

Im sorry if I come off that way, but that is not how I am. I think most people here are like me, just they aren’t as loud and arrogant as the “big guys”. I agree with some of what you are saying, and that is what I have done. I have taken advice from people that are bigger/stronger than me, combined with my experience to steer me in the right track. My problem with many of the people here, is their attitudes, and the fact that they dont really know what they are talking about. They may be right, but at the same time they are complete idiots.

This thread clearly pointed out that there is DEFINATELY more than one way to get big, and that getting stronger is a HUGE part of that. And myself, and others, have presented valid points against Brick’s original post (which really didn’t contain any points at all), yet him and others demonstrate their lack of knowing, or poor brain capacity by not presenting and defending their case, but instead belittling others and changing the topic.

I asked Brick what specifically it is about 5/3/1 that makes it inferior to “bodybuilding” programs, yet he mysteriously has no response. I presume the only thing that makes it inferior, is that a “bodybuilder” did not create the program.

I’d really like to be able to ignore threads like these, but when I see poor logic, arrogant attitudes, and lousy argumentative skills, I just cant resist.

I think its time, that I wipe this account and start over. It wont solve the problem of the idiots on here, but at least it will avoid some of the crap that goes on.

269

Cephalic: Did you get my private message?

270

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Cephalic: Did you get my private message? [/quote]

No… Try again now, should work hopefully.

271

[quote]dankid wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Dankid, I don’t mean to be offensive or anything, but when you speak, you talk as if no-one else here has experimented or gone through similar things to you? As if they’re just puffed up with pride and dumb…

I joined ages ago when I wasn’t very serious/focused, but after “rejoining” and discussing somewhat about a few months ago (and soaking up the stuff that counts…that is, what’s worked for the real world guys), I’ve made nothing but progress - and that’s because I listened to many of the very one’s you’re criticising. Sure, sometimes you may get slightly offended (when you take things the wrong way), but in the end, it’s really useful, no matter what manner it’s put across.

In fact, I’d say that a so called hard-core attitude, and “no nonsense” approach is necessary in order to be heard above the “keyboard warriors” and nerds with nothing to show for themselves. I always remember training with a hardcore bodybuilder (20+ years experience), and he used to always greet me and my brother (when we came round to train) with a “hello girls!”…it’s all just a laugh lol. But it makes you stronger…[/quote]

Im sorry if I come off that way, but that is not how I am. I think most people here are like me, just they aren’t as loud and arrogant as the “big guys”. I agree with some of what you are saying, and that is what I have done. I have taken advice from people that are bigger/stronger than me, combined with my experience to steer me in the right track. My problem with many of the people here, is their attitudes, and the fact that they dont really know what they are talking about. They may be right, but at the same time they are complete idiots.

This thread clearly pointed out that there is DEFINATELY more than one way to get big, and that getting stronger is a HUGE part of that. And myself, and others, have presented valid points against Brick’s original post (which really didn’t contain any points at all), yet him and others demonstrate their lack of knowing, or poor brain capacity by not presenting and defending their case, but instead belittling others and changing the topic.

I asked Brick what specifically it is about 5/3/1 that makes it inferior to “bodybuilding” programs, yet he mysteriously has no response. I presume the only thing that makes it inferior, is that a “bodybuilder” did not create the program.

I’d really like to be able to ignore threads like these, but when I see poor logic, arrogant attitudes, and lousy argumentative skills, I just cant resist.

I think its time, that I wipe this account and start over. It wont solve the problem of the idiots on here, but at least it will avoid some of the crap that goes on.[/quote]

I haven’t looked too much into the 5/3/1 program, to be honest. It seems like a “cookie cut” program, in which case, it wouldn’t be completely relevant to a bodybuilder (a bodybuilder who evolves his routine to suit his needs).

I think that the reason why people who don’t respond to “higher” reps is because they haven’t developed the right focus to get the most out of it. Hence, one of the reasons why low reps enables a “newbie” bodybuilder to develop what they need for later on (drive/intensity/focus). High reps aren’t an excuse for small weights.

Another reason why I reckon some don’t make progress on higher reps, is because it takes a hell of a lot more calories to support them. People who do high reps, likely don’t increase their calories by enough, and probably get leaner at the same time, then conclude that they don’t work.

272

everyone needs to shut down their computer, take some inhibit-e, and calm the fuck down.

end thread

273

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

[quote]dankid wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Dankid, I don’t mean to be offensive or anything, but when you speak, you talk as if no-one else here has experimented or gone through similar things to you? As if they’re just puffed up with pride and dumb…

I joined ages ago when I wasn’t very serious/focused, but after “rejoining” and discussing somewhat about a few months ago (and soaking up the stuff that counts…that is, what’s worked for the real world guys), I’ve made nothing but progress - and that’s because I listened to many of the very one’s you’re criticising. Sure, sometimes you may get slightly offended (when you take things the wrong way), but in the end, it’s really useful, no matter what manner it’s put across.

In fact, I’d say that a so called hard-core attitude, and “no nonsense” approach is necessary in order to be heard above the “keyboard warriors” and nerds with nothing to show for themselves. I always remember training with a hardcore bodybuilder (20+ years experience), and he used to always greet me and my brother (when we came round to train) with a “hello girls!”…it’s all just a laugh lol. But it makes you stronger…[/quote]

Im sorry if I come off that way, but that is not how I am. I think most people here are like me, just they aren’t as loud and arrogant as the “big guys”. I agree with some of what you are saying, and that is what I have done. I have taken advice from people that are bigger/stronger than me, combined with my experience to steer me in the right track. My problem with many of the people here, is their attitudes, and the fact that they dont really know what they are talking about. They may be right, but at the same time they are complete idiots.

This thread clearly pointed out that there is DEFINATELY more than one way to get big, and that getting stronger is a HUGE part of that. And myself, and others, have presented valid points against Brick’s original post (which really didn’t contain any points at all), yet him and others demonstrate their lack of knowing, or poor brain capacity by not presenting and defending their case, but instead belittling others and changing the topic.

I asked Brick what specifically it is about 5/3/1 that makes it inferior to “bodybuilding” programs, yet he mysteriously has no response. I presume the only thing that makes it inferior, is that a “bodybuilder” did not create the program.

I’d really like to be able to ignore threads like these, but when I see poor logic, arrogant attitudes, and lousy argumentative skills, I just cant resist.

I think its time, that I wipe this account and start over. It wont solve the problem of the idiots on here, but at least it will avoid some of the crap that goes on.[/quote]

I haven’t looked too much into the 5/3/1 program, to be honest. It seems like a “cookie cut” program, in which case, it wouldn’t be completely relevant to a bodybuilder (a bodybuilder who evolves his routine to suit his needs).

I think that the reason why people who don’t respond to “higher” reps is because they haven’t developed the right focus to get the most out of it. Hence, one of the reasons why low reps enables a “newbie” bodybuilder to develop what they need for later on (drive/intensity/focus). High reps aren’t an excuse for small weights.

Another reason why I reckon some don’t make progress on higher reps, is because it takes a hell of a lot more calories to support them. People who do high reps, likely don’t increase their calories by enough, and probably get leaner at the same time, then conclude that they don’t work.[/quote]

I’ve made 2 or more posts in this thread about 5/3/1. The assistance templates in the book are the problem and no good for bodybuilding (even the “bodybuilder” template), and those would be what brick is referring to I believe.

However, 5/3/1 is not a “cookie-cutter” program. 5/3/1 IT IS NOT A PROGRAM AT ALL.

It’s just a set/rep and progression scheme for whatever lifts you want to use it on, with 2 different loading parameter tables available… The one where you jump 10% each work set during waves 1-3 is almost exactly what guys like Yates were doing, with a few minor differences. It’s literally ramping up to a top set for moderate to high reps (or stick to the rep goal of the day if you feel under the weather). Sound familiar?

274

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

I haven’t looked too much into the 5/3/1 program, to be honest.
[/quote]

Right here is where you should have stopped commented. That’s the reason we have threads like this. A bunch of armchair experts who feel the need to comment on everything, regardless of how little actual experience they have.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
It seems like a “cookie cut” program, in which case, it wouldn’t be completely relevant to a bodybuilder (a bodybuilder who evolves his routine to suit his needs).

[/quote]

And you would be entirely wrong. It’s not a program, it’s a sensible method of progression that can be adapted to fit into just about any traditional training style. If you had the faintest clue as to what it was you were talking about, you would know that it is the farthest possible thing from “cookie cutter” and in fact, Jim has said this numerous times on this message board alone.

275

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

I haven’t looked too much into the 5/3/1 program, to be honest.
[/quote]

Right here is where you should have stopped commented. That’s the reason we have threads like this. A bunch of armchair experts who feel the need to comment on everything, regardless of how little actual experience they have.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
It seems like a “cookie cut” program, in which case, it wouldn’t be completely relevant to a bodybuilder (a bodybuilder who evolves his routine to suit his needs).

[/quote]

And you would be entirely wrong. It’s not a program, it’s a sensible method of progression that can be adapted to fit into just about any traditional training style. If you had the faintest clue as to what it was you were talking about, you would know that it is the farthest possible thing from “cookie cutter” and in fact, Jim has said this numerous times on this message board alone.[/quote]

Agreed…

276

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
10 pages of uselessness. [/quote]
not quite: your post was quite good :wink:

277

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]alit4 wrote:

dude, this post seems very honest… and does you no favours at all. you really need to stop arguing with the big boys all the time, stop handing out advice, and focus on whatever it is you are trying to achieve.[/quote]

Can you please define for me who the “big boys” are?[/quote]

err… that would be the guys dankid is constantly arguing with?

278

[quote]alit4 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]alit4 wrote:

dude, this post seems very honest… and does you no favours at all. you really need to stop arguing with the big boys all the time, stop handing out advice, and focus on whatever it is you are trying to achieve.[/quote]

Can you please define for me who the “big boys” are?[/quote]

err… that would be the guys dankid is constantly arguing with?[/quote]

LOL.

dankid, hint: post less, read and lift more. Especially if you aren’t going to put up some stats/pics/vids so people will know how “legit” you are.

279

[quote]dankid wrote:

His entire training history

[/quote]

Look, here’s the thing. You’ve now had FIVE YEARS since you started training, and in your narrative you admit you didn’t know what you were doing. So maybe in the last year you’ve got everything dialed in, that’s fine, keep going with it and good luck with your goals.

But there isn’t a single thing you’ve written or done, in 5 full years of training, that makes you qualified to give out training advice to ANYONE. THAT is why you get so much grief here. You complain about the “keyboard warriors”; pot, meet kettle.

No offense, but you’ve built nothing, are still chasing mediocre numbers in the big 3, yet you seem to have a never-ending stream of wisdom and advice for people that have accomplished a TON more than you in this game. You are not qualified to give advice. Period.

Now - you say you’ve gone from 165 in your first pic posted in this thread, to 218. While not earth-shattering over 5 years, it’s progress. Keep going. But unless you’ve actually built a solid physique, OR currently lacking that, you have serious educatonal credentials a la guys like Alwyn Cosgrove or Charles Staley - why exactly should anyone listen to you about how to get big?

280

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

I haven’t looked too much into the 5/3/1 program, to be honest.
[/quote]

Right here is where you should have stopped commented. That’s the reason we have threads like this. A bunch of armchair experts who feel the need to comment on everything, regardless of how little actual experience they have.

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
It seems like a “cookie cut” program, in which case, it wouldn’t be completely relevant to a bodybuilder (a bodybuilder who evolves his routine to suit his needs).

[/quote]

And you would be entirely wrong. It’s not a program, it’s a sensible method of progression that can be adapted to fit into just about any traditional training style. If you had the faintest clue as to what it was you were talking about, you would know that it is the farthest possible thing from “cookie cutter” and in fact, Jim has said this numerous times on this message board alone.[/quote]

Yeah oops, my mistake :slight_smile:

Hence why I put the “disclaimer” lol

And to C_C, I now that you mentioned it, I do remember you going over this before - must be your long posts, by the time I’ve got to the end I’ve forgotten the beginning and middle haha…just kiding :slight_smile: