Why Train for Strength If Size Is Wanted?

Ha another thing that is funny that I just noticed. My join date here is like 2 years after I posted those pics. Which means you must have stalked me on another forum to find them. Also at that time, I was doing BODYBUILDING routines and did have some success (because before that I was 155lbs and rail skinny), but I didn’t start to get even bigger and more muscular until I started focusing on strength, which really just happened this past year.

Thx for stalking me Purple, you pretty much supported my point. Where are your pics by the way?

Also, im not 200lbs at 20% I dont know where you got that info. Im about 210-215 at about 18%, still nothing to brag about, but then again, im not the one here bragging.

This forum cares more about the minutiae of English rhetoric than it does about bodybuilding.

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:

[quote]toolshed wrote:

[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Wow Dankid, you’re SWOLE. YOU are the one we should be looking to for training advice. Hahahahaha.

-Humble Herald to He Who May not be Named.[/quote]

Haha why even watch drama on TV when you can read these forums all day about people taking personal cheap shots at each other (yes I do agree with listening to people who have walked the walk)

Those pictures are dated 5 years back tho. Anything new from Dan?[/quote]

He is currently 200lb at 20% at 5’11.

Hey Dan, put up your current pics of a skinny fat 200 pounds.
[/quote]

To tell the truth, between him and his sidekick, most of their posts come across more as “waaaah, our genetics suck so we join forces to make sure no one else thinks they have the ability to get big on a level that satisfies the goals of many of us”.

I can’t say it shocking that he looks like someone NO ONE would think lifted weights seriously. It isn’t like any of the rest of these types of posters are getting any gasps in the room when walk in the gym.

[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:
My best guess is that it would have something to do with the whole recent(?) “functional” thing. If you train for strength, your muscles will be big AND strong, not just big and unfunctionally weak with arms that only curl 35’s!

Or maybe it’s because plenty of people say that if you train for strength, you’ll get bigger (though not as fast or as much as possible), and so they want to straddle two horses with one ass? Though if what I’m told from the people on this site is correct, then the reverse works as well.

Oh well.

To hell with size and strength; let’s all get functional![/quote]

That functional training shit bugs the hell out of me. If you bench press 450 pounds and deadlift 600 pounds, youre strong, period.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
If this thread were a bus passenger, it would say “Get deh ambalamps”[/quote]

LO fucking L!!! totally agree

[quote]tap_u_out wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Lol at the MMA guy talking about beating up people over the internet. This isn’t highschool dude, no one is going to meet you in the parking lot after the final bell.

Fucking priceless.[/quote]

Why don’t you re-read my post? I have never said I’d beat anybody up. Wtf? That would be a rather stupid statement given the fact that I replied to someone in Belgium! Even if they were next door I’d never make such a statement… good God!

Anyway, my only point was the fact that even as athletes we can still train for mass. That doesn’t make us all over the place, like X says. Everybody benefits from different types of training. Big deal.

It doesn’t make you wrong or me right, or viceversa… We all have smething valuable to offer. As different athletes we shouldn’t be excluded from a thread like this, nor should you be excluded from other threads… [/quote]

Dude, you came off like a tough guy calling people out in your posts. It is okay, I litterally laughed out loud each time.

No worries man, this thread is comedic at this point.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

Bottom line is that when someone says “I want to gain size,” we need to ask “Why?”[/quote]

Ummm, when that question is posted on a forum clearly labled bodybuilding, why would any resonable person think that the answer to your “why” would be anything other than “Look like a brick shithouse bodybuilder”? (Don’t trip over yourselves to wave your wangs, I’m not putting any size limitations on anything.)

So you’re saying if someone walks into my office tommorrow I shouldn’t assume he needs his taxes done or an audit, I mean he may be asking me, a CPA to paint his fence right?

LOL

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[/quote]
Do people ask you questions like this often?

I wonder because your answer to your own rhetorical question pretty much sucked.

You don’t suggest to someone that they increase their lifts in such a nebulous manner when they are asking a question about volume.

Now here is what I tell him (because I am actually doing this right now with a kid at work).

Volume builds Volume!

First, use a volumetric increase to reach a targeted quantity. Then Add Weight. Then keep pushing (or pulling) that weight until you have met the volume target.

Or any of the mountain of volume building techniques which will also include a weight progression when the rep requirement has been met.

And at a 185lbs. bench press, no there should not be a discussion of power lifting or body building. There should be a discussion of volume and weight progression, and ways to do it.

Nor should there be some arbitrary number chosen by you to describe when he has reached a goal that involves size, not weight.

You rail against the people around here who have experience while at the same time you fuck up your own hypothetical answers to your own hypothetical questions.

Now go get a fucking clue as to what the factors are that should be manipulated to reach a goal, and learn to manipulate them wrapping your keyboard flailing fingers around a fucking bar.
[/quote]

I guess thats a great way to overcomplicate things. And it may work, as there are MANY ways to get stronger and bigger. But the main premise is that the individual needs to GET STRONGER on the right lifts and EAT ENOUGH to gain weight.

This thread is dead as far as I can tell. Brick and others are not even discssing the initial topic anymore, and this has gotten boring. I’ll see you all in the next train wreck that one of these guys creates…

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

Bottom line is that when someone says “I want to gain size,” we need to ask “Why?”[/quote]

Ummm, when that question is posted on a forum clearly labled bodybuilding, why would any resonable person think that the answer to your “why” would be anything other than “Look like a brick shithouse bodybuilder”? (Don’t trip over yourselves to wave your wangs, I’m not putting any size limitations on anything.)

So you’re saying if someone walks into my office tommorrow I shouldn’t assume he needs his taxes done or an audit, I mean he may be asking me, a CPA to paint his fence right?

LOL[/quote]

Only if his name is Tom Sawyer.

This sums my thoughts up pretty well.

KEVIN LEVRONE

1994 AND 1996 ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER CLASSIC WINNER

"You get as big as possible from becoming as strong as possible. Size doesn’t beget strength; it’s vice versa. When I started lifting, I went into the gym with that ‘How much can I bench, curl, squat and deadlift?’ attitude. That’s when I discovered how fast my strength could increase, and it made me crazy-intense to get even stronger. It was so motivating that I forgot all about building muscles, but that’s what enabled my huge spurt of muscle mass to sneak up on me. Before I knew it, I was a mass monster, and it all came from the following principles.

  • You have to lift free weights, and each time, it has to be more than you’re ever been able to lift.

  • Always do the basics: bench presses, squats, deadlifts, bent rows, standing military presses, barbell curls and close-grip benches.

  • Make sure it’s so heavy that it makes you sweat, grunt and scream. That means you’re forced beyond your limit.

  • Never do more than eight reps–and that’s to failure. For your heaviest sets, you should struggle for three or four.

  • Don’t count sets; just keep 'em going, increasing the weight each time. If your intensity is fired to its max, you’ll be surprised at how you get stronger with each set.

  • People don’t want to train until they get sore anymore.

They train till it hurts, then stop. To get strong, train until it stops hurting.

  • Think ‘overload’ for both poundage and protein. My biggest strength gains came from consuming 6,500 calories a day, mostly protein."

[quote]dankid wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[/quote]
Do people ask you questions like this often?

I wonder because your answer to your own rhetorical question pretty much sucked.

You don’t suggest to someone that they increase their lifts in such a nebulous manner when they are asking a question about volume.

Now here is what I tell him (because I am actually doing this right now with a kid at work).

Volume builds Volume!

First, use a volumetric increase to reach a targeted quantity. Then Add Weight. Then keep pushing (or pulling) that weight until you have met the volume target.

Or any of the mountain of volume building techniques which will also include a weight progression when the rep requirement has been met.

And at a 185lbs. bench press, no there should not be a discussion of power lifting or body building. There should be a discussion of volume and weight progression, and ways to do it.

Nor should there be some arbitrary number chosen by you to describe when he has reached a goal that involves size, not weight.

You rail against the people around here who have experience while at the same time you fuck up your own hypothetical answers to your own hypothetical questions.

Now go get a fucking clue as to what the factors are that should be manipulated to reach a goal, and learn to manipulate them wrapping your keyboard flailing fingers around a fucking bar.
[/quote]

I guess thats a great way to overcomplicate things. And it may work, as there are MANY ways to get stronger and bigger. But the main premise is that the individual needs to GET STRONGER on the right lifts and EAT ENOUGH to gain weight.

This thread is dead as far as I can tell. Brick and others are not even discssing the initial topic anymore, and this has gotten boring. I’ll see you all in the next train wreck that one of these guys creates…[/quote]

They don’t really like discussing when people have other ideas or disagree. Then they just cuss and stop posting all together. Maybe we should start our own thread.

[quote]dankid wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[/quote]
Do people ask you questions like this often?

I wonder because your answer to your own rhetorical question pretty much sucked.

You don’t suggest to someone that they increase their lifts in such a nebulous manner when they are asking a question about volume.

Now here is what I tell him (because I am actually doing this right now with a kid at work).

Volume builds Volume!

First, use a volumetric increase to reach a targeted quantity. Then Add Weight. Then keep pushing (or pulling) that weight until you have met the volume target.

Or any of the mountain of volume building techniques which will also include a weight progression when the rep requirement has been met.

And at a 185lbs. bench press, no there should not be a discussion of power lifting or body building. There should be a discussion of volume and weight progression, and ways to do it.

Nor should there be some arbitrary number chosen by you to describe when he has reached a goal that involves size, not weight.

You rail against the people around here who have experience while at the same time you fuck up your own hypothetical answers to your own hypothetical questions.

Now go get a fucking clue as to what the factors are that should be manipulated to reach a goal, and learn to manipulate them wrapping your keyboard flailing fingers around a fucking bar.
[/quote]

I guess thats a great way to overcomplicate things. And it may work, as there are MANY ways to get stronger and bigger. But the main premise is that the individual needs to GET STRONGER on the right lifts and EAT ENOUGH to gain weight.

[/quote]

I was going to respond with something else but you are just stupid to a degree that leads me to believe that you are truly god forsaken.

[quote]dankid wrote:
Ha another thing that is funny that I just noticed. My join date here is like 2 years after I posted those pics. Which means you must have stalked me on another forum to find them. Also at that time, I was doing BODYBUILDING routines and did have some success (because before that I was 155lbs and rail skinny), but I didn’t start to get even bigger and more muscular until I started focusing on strength, which really just happened this past year.

Thx for stalking me Purple, you pretty much supported my point. Where are your pics by the way?

Also, im not 200lbs at 20% I dont know where you got that info. Im about 210-215 at about 18%, still nothing to brag about, but then again, im not the one here bragging.[/quote]

So what were you doing for those 4 years primarily? Did you focus on size/bodybuilding for those 4 years and got up to 200 + and then this last year you focused on strength primarily and just blew up in size? Just curious.

Also curious as to what you currently look like. Since you dish out a huge amount of advice. It would only be fair for the newbies and us novices to see what your way of training has done for you this past year. Since you got “bigger and muscular” this past year as if those other 4 years didn’t do much for you.

As a boy I loved MMA when it was an underground “human cock fighting” of sorts. Now in this Tapout generation, where every frat boy with money to buy an affliction T and dish $$$ on some lessons is an “MMA fighter” I can barely stand to turn on Spike yet alone order a PPV event…

Digressing I read this thread at first and didn’t even reply because I thought it was one of those “lift heavy to get stronger” obvious, but still need to be stated-statements. Somehow some have managed to argue with training for size when size is the goal…

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Maybe we should start our own thread.[/quote]

I was actually thinking of starting such a thread, just so that others dont get exposed to this nonsense that is being spewed here. I dunno though, Austin_Bicep and a few others seem to be pretty knowledgeable and know whats up and have had far better success than me, so maybe their advice would be better recieved.

I guess my lack of “success” though would be proof that I dont know what im talking about. Because we all know that every smart person out there is jacked. And of course there aren’t ang big guys out there that are complete idiots. Ya right!

I dunno, we’ll see, such a thread might need to be created. If you want to start it, message me and i’ll give you my opinions so you can get everythign in the first post before these guys come and trainwreck it.

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
So what were you doing for those 4 years primarily? Did you focus on size/bodybuilding for those 4 years and got up to 200 + and then this last year you focused on strength primarily and just blew up in size? Just curious.

Also curious as to what you currently look like. Since you dish out a huge amount of advice. It would only be fair for the newbies and us novices to see what your way of training has done for you this past year. Since you got “bigger and muscular” this past year as if those other 4 years didn’t do much for you.[/quote]

I know you are trolling, but i’ll amuse you. I probably went through 2 growth spurts during those 4 years, and my training changed a bit (its hard to remember back to what I was doing).

But my training started to come together when I first started using EDT. I got stronger, bigger and leaner, but only to a point. This was my first exposure to some real barbell routines, and I think I did SS a bit, and mainly EDT, and probably a bit of Westside for certain things.

Two of my “problems” were that I wasn’t eating enough (plain and simple i needed to gain weight and eat more to recover) and I was focusing on the “wrong” exercises. I didn’t do much barbell bench pressing, because it had bothered my shoulders in the past and I never had a spotter, and maybe I was lazy. Also I didn’t do squats, because I never took the time to learn them, and enjoyed deadlifting more, and I probably was lazy.

So I really focused on pullups, DB snatches, Deadlifts, and DB floor pressing. And as I got stronger on these lifts, I magically got bigger and leaner, but as I said I wasn’t eating enough, so I eventually stalled on both strength and size. **Also during this time, I was skimboarding a lot (which was a blast) and weight gain wasn’t gonna happen.

((I know though that the training I did during this time was pretty productive and definately enjoyable, so I DO plan on going back to it sometime in the future, but I’ll pay more attention to eating enough and recovery))

So that “phase” took me to around 190’ish and I was pretty lean ~12% or so.

I then fell into the trap of wanting “hot abz” so I started doing different forms of conditioning, like TABATA, and experimenting with cutting and low carb. Im not sure how long this lasted, but I got a bit leaner, but made very little progress during this time, and it was for the most part a waste of time. During this time I was also doing Karate and Kickboxing, which really prevented me from gaining much muscle, but of course my focus was on getting leaner. But ya, didn’t make much progress for this year or two, but had great fun.

Then was my final phase of “success”. I cant remember exactly when this began, but I wanna say about a year ago, or maybe last summer. I started to focus more on size and strength and finally realized that the reason I was too small, was that I wasn’t eating enough. I experimented with Westside for a while, and made some progress, but I was still too inexperienced to do that program without a coach or mentor. Progress was slow, but still better than before.

Then things started to come around when I read Dan John’s article “the 40 day program” It was inspiring, and I went for it, and I ate like a mad man. I was able to put about 15lbs on in about 1-2 months. Yes I know this is fast, and A LOT of it was fat, but I didn’t care. My goal was to move up in weight, not a “clean bulk” or minimizing fat. I just wanted to get used to eating more, and weigh more.

I went into Westside’ish WS4SB and some other strength focused programs for a while, and I cant remember if it happened in one or two phases, but I eventually broke the 200lbs mark, and topped out around 218. I wasn’t gaining a ton of strength during this time, for various reasons, so much of what I gained was fat, but it is now easier for me to maintain a weight of 210+ and I dont look terribly fat with clothes on.

Now where im at, I have some clear goals, and feel ready to pursue those goals. I want bigger arms and more muscle all around, but my goals are mainly performance based. I want to press/bench/squat/deadlift 200/300/400/500 which isn’t spectacular, but is great for me. And I want to weigh somewhere between 220-240. And Im pretty confident that my best bet to achieve these goals is going to be following strength focused programs and eating for progress in strength and body weight.

END OF LONG BORING STORY -

BUT, I will say ive made a lot of mistakes, and learned from both things that worked and things that didn’t work. Its something that you learn as you go, and some people just learn faster than others. And the biggest lesson I learned, was that I NEEDED TO EAT MORE.

No offense DK, but you figured out what you were doing/should be doing last year.

I’d rather get my advice from brick, because even when he’s calling me out, he’s right.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

Bottom line is that when someone says “I want to gain size,” we need to ask “Why?”[/quote]

Ummm, when that question is posted on a forum clearly labled bodybuilding, why would any resonable person think that the answer to your “why” would be anything other than “Look like a brick shithouse bodybuilder”? (Don’t trip over yourselves to wave your wangs, I’m not putting any size limitations on anything.)

So you’re saying if someone walks into my office tommorrow I shouldn’t assume he needs his taxes done or an audit, I mean he may be asking me, a CPA to paint his fence right?

LOL[/quote]

This is a valid point. However, in my experience, a person who has no experience with weights will equate “bodybuilding” with “strength training.” So, just out of sheer ignorance, they’ll come onto a bodybuilding forum when what they really need is a strength training forum. Going back to my experiences with triathlets, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I want to do some strength training but I don’t want to get too big.” My response: “Don’t follow a bodybuilding routine.”

Oh yeah, how much would you charge to paint my fence?

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Patbone wrote:
Wasn’t there a great quote that explained this phenomena before… You can’t put your ass on two Horses… Size and strength can (mingle) together but you can’t get much mass outta strength

[/quote]

It’s not the getting stronger -part that brick is going against here I think… That’s integral to bodybuilding.

It’s just that starting strength, for example, is just not a good routine for bodybuilding purposes.

[/quote]
(the way the program is put together is what I mean, if your goal is “thick and wide shoulders, traps, stand-out arms and very wide lats”. You can get to 250+ pounds on both “strength” [well, unless perhaps we’re talking a routine that focuses on increasing relative strength mostly/only] and “bb-style” [I’m just going to call it that, you guys know what I mean I hope] routines such as used by bodybuilders and quite a few powerlifters and strongmen, and in both cases getting significantly stronger is a key part… That was never the question.)

I just wanted to remind people what this thread was supposed to be about, despite the misleading title…

No idea how we ended up with a discussion of Steroids, Bricknyce’s posting habits and whether or not one should hit the biceps from multiple angles ?

Brick, you might want to have this thread deleted and start a new one with a more precise OP if you want a relevant discussion, this one has gone to hell in a handbasket…

Dankid, I don’t mean to be offensive or anything, but when you speak, you talk as if no-one else here has experimented or gone through similar things to you? As if they’re just puffed up with pride and dumb…

I joined ages ago when I wasn’t very serious/focused, but after “rejoining” and discussing somewhat about a few months ago (and soaking up the stuff that counts…that is, what’s worked for the real world guys), I’ve made nothing but progress - and that’s because I listened to many of the very one’s you’re criticising. Sure, sometimes you may get slightly offended (when you take things the wrong way), but in the end, it’s really useful, no matter what manner it’s put across.

In fact, I’d say that a so called hard-core attitude, and “no nonsense” approach is necessary in order to be heard above the “keyboard warriors” and nerds with nothing to show for themselves. I always remember training with a hardcore bodybuilder (20+ years experience), and he used to always greet me and my brother (when we came round to train) with a “hello girls!”…it’s all just a laugh lol. But it makes you stronger…