Why wouldn’t you train calves if they suck should be the question.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]schism45 wrote:
People seem to think that everything in life should come easy and without work… and that is why, as a whole, they never achieve what they set out to do.
OP is a great example of this attitude.[/quote]
How about taking the time to read the thread and understand my actual position instead of throwing out clueless personal comments?[/quote]
It is your position. “If it takes work/doesn’t come easy/takes a lot of effort for little payback, I’m going to complain and then stop.”
Whatever logic you’re trying to attach to it is simply an effort to justify/mask your lack of willingness to work hard.
[quote]tokyopop wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Train them because progress comes slowly, but it’s much better than no progress at all.
My arms grow faster than the rest of my body. By your logic, since I get the biggest ROI by training my arms, I should ONLY train arms.
It doesn’t work like that. To keep things as much in proportion as possible, it’s best to make your weakest links your highest priorities, not your lowest.[/quote]
I agree with you, as long as they do in fact respond to training. It may take a little longer and more effort, but if you’re still seeing growth then it’s worth the investment.
However, that’s not what I hear from most people. They keep complaining that their calves don’t respond at all, or that they respond so slowly that there is no noticeable growth even after years of effort.[/quote]
I’ve never heard of someone’s calves not growing at all after years of training and if thats the case then they are probably doing something wrong IMO. From what I’ve been reading, people who’s calves haven’t been responding much simply start training them up to 4 times a week and voila… growth. Its certainly helped me when mine weren’t growing. And like Lanky wrote, if its a weak point make it a priority. [/quote]
I haven’t gotten past the first page but I train my calves 4 days per week now. In the past I’ve done 3 days per week, 2 days, DC methods, ect. and they just don’t grow. It’s really damn annoying, especially since I’ve gained about 20-25lb. in the last 8 months or so and everything else has grown.
Another thing that really annoys me when training calves is the ROM. With almost any other muscle group’s exercises it’s clear what a rep is but with calves the ROM can get cut in half by the end of the set and it still feels relatively the same. usually I use some marker that I have to see the weight go past to count it as a rep but even then sometimes it feels like not a full rep and like the bottom position could still keep going even when the top is maxed out and my legs are on fire
I’m going to start doing Dante’s trick too, setting a nice high incline on the treadmill and straddling myself over the front and pressing real fuckin’ hard with each step and getting on the balls of my feet, contracting the calves real good. Have done it a few times and I think this plus stretching and heavy work while gaining weight has to work decently.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I’ve read several times that gaining calf size comes with gaining weight for some people. Do you think that it’s a product of the extra strain on them when walking and running, or more just a function of gaining?
I’ve been thinking about getting an 80lb vest and walking with it for steady state cardio/ calf work? Any thoughts?[/quote]
It’s moreso a case of being in a state of anabolism, more than the extra load per ce. Like with any other muscle group, you need to be taking in more than you are burning for them to grow (unless you haven’t trained them much or at all…you could gain size in an under-trained muscle group even on a diet).
Other than that, it’s fat deposits. Some people put more fat on some areas than others. For example, for arms, if I were to go from 160lbs body weight to 190lbs, although most of my gains in weight would have been muscle, a good third of that may be fat and would contribute to the increase in upper arm circumference (maybe 1/4 - 1/2 of an inch). That’s just an example…
[quote]schism45 wrote:
It is your position. “If it takes work/doesn’t come easy/takes a lot of effort for little payback, I’m going to complain and then stop.”
Whatever logic you’re trying to attach to it is simply an effort to justify/mask your lack of willingness to work hard.[/quote]
No genius, it’s the position of people claiming their calves are perpetually tiny despite years of training intensely and correctly. I never made this claim, nor does it apply to me. I was commenting on these people, and asking them why they don’t use the time to train another muscle if that were actually the case.
Since you’re too lazy to read the thread, I said:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I’ve read several times that gaining calf size comes with gaining weight for some people. Do you think that it’s a product of the extra strain on them when walking and running, or more just a function of gaining?
I’ve been thinking about getting an 80lb vest and walking with it for steady state cardio/ calf work? Any thoughts?[/quote]
It’s moreso a case of being in a state of anabolism, more than the extra load per ce. Like with any other muscle group, you need to be taking in more than you are burning for them to grow (unless you haven’t trained them much or at all…you could gain size in an under-trained muscle group even on a diet).
Other than that, it’s fat deposits. Some people put more fat on some areas than others. For example, for arms, if I were to go from 160lbs body weight to 190lbs, although most of my gains in weight would have been muscle, a good third of that may be fat and would contribute to the increase in upper arm circumference (maybe 1/4 - 1/2 of an inch). That’s just an example…[/quote]
I see what you’re saying.
Here’s what I’ve seen over the last two years:
My calves were slightly larger than my forearms… no joke (~13")
Started working them HEAVY when I first started - nothing
Gained 40lbs - added 1/4"
Started walking w/35lbs twice a week (on hilly terrain) in addition to heavy training - added another 1/4"
Ditched the heavy training in favor of high-rep pyramids - I’m now up to 14.75" and still growing
Just recently started doing the pyramids twice a week (I do a seated and a standing for each session) - hoping to be well over 15" in a couple months with the addition of the 80lb vest
Trying like hell to get them AT LEAST as big as my neck
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]schism45 wrote:
It is your position. “If it takes work/doesn’t come easy/takes a lot of effort for little payback, I’m going to complain and then stop.”
Whatever logic you’re trying to attach to it is simply an effort to justify/mask your lack of willingness to work hard.[/quote]
No genius, it’s the position of people claiming their calves are perpetually tiny despite years of training intensely and correctly. I never made this claim, nor does it apply to me. I was commenting on these people, and asking them why they don’t use the time to train another muscle if that were actually the case.
Since you’re too lazy to read the thread, I said:
Although I disagree with you, some people just post for the sake of posting. schism45 either didn’t read the posts in this thread or has a reading comprehension issue but decided to throw his 2 cents in anyway.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I’ve read several times that gaining calf size comes with gaining weight for some people. Do you think that it’s a product of the extra strain on them when walking and running, or more just a function of gaining?
I’ve been thinking about getting an 80lb vest and walking with it for steady state cardio/ calf work? Any thoughts?[/quote]
It’s moreso a case of being in a state of anabolism, more than the extra load per ce. Like with any other muscle group, you need to be taking in more than you are burning for them to grow (unless you haven’t trained them much or at all…you could gain size in an under-trained muscle group even on a diet).
Other than that, it’s fat deposits. Some people put more fat on some areas than others. For example, for arms, if I were to go from 160lbs body weight to 190lbs, although most of my gains in weight would have been muscle, a good third of that may be fat and would contribute to the increase in upper arm circumference (maybe 1/4 - 1/2 of an inch). That’s just an example…[/quote]
I see what you’re saying.
Here’s what I’ve seen over the last two years:
My calves were slightly larger than my forearms… no joke (~13")
Started working them HEAVY when I first started - nothing
Gained 40lbs - added 1/4"
Started walking w/35lbs twice a week (on hilly terrain) in addition to heavy training - added another 1/4"
Ditched the heavy training in favor of high-rep pyramids - I’m now up to 14.75" and still growing
Just recently started doing the pyramids twice a week (I do a seated and a standing for each session) - hoping to be well over 15" in a couple months with the addition of the 80lb vest
Trying like hell to get them AT LEAST as big as my neck[/quote]
What exactly does your calf training look likes for sets x reps and how many times per week? Also how long did it take you to go from that ~13.5in to 14.75in? How much weight did you gain during that time?
unfortunately I don’t have many options over the summer for calf exercises (mostly free weights) but hopefully when I get back to a real gym in the fall things could change :\
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Although I disagree with you, some people just post for the sake of posting. schism45 either didn’t read the posts in this thread or has a reading comprehension issue but decided to throw his 2 cents in anyway.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity, what is it you disagree with?
I’m not saying that calves are 100% genetic. I don’t believe this.
I’m not arguing that people shouldn’t train their calves. I don’t believe this either.
My personal opinion is that most people should be able to see at least some growth in their calves by training them correctly, and that it is worth the investment to do so.
However, people are constantly posting on these boards about how their calves refuse to grow no matter what they do.
Why is that?
Maybe it’s because, as most have posted here, they aren’t training their calves with proper technique, intensity, and time. If so, they need to correct the underlying issue in order to see progress on their calves.
Then again, maybe for some people it really is 100% genetic. I have no idea, I’m not a physician. I’m just saying that IF this is the case for a minority of people, then WHY are they wasting their time training a muscle that is never going to grow? I’m calling them on it. If they truly believe their calves are 100% genetic and despite doing everything correctly they still aren’t seeing any progress, then they should apply that time and effort toward other muscles that actually will respond to their training.
[quote]celtics2022 wrote:
For reference: Kai Greene doing 225 for 11 reps at 4:00
[/quote]
This is what I was talking about above. What do you guys count as full reps? He’s barely even going halfway up with that weight. It’s seriously hard to gauge strength progress because half the time when you’re going up in weight the ROM is just going down. I was doing 255 on some machine back in november and the other day did 230 for the same reps because my ROM was just larger and it was just as hard.
Also, do you guys use your hands on the seated calf raises? I always did but then I took them off of the handles and put them on the side so they couldn’t help at all and the reps were practically cut in half. I was doing 110x11 or something like that (again, calves only about 15in) and without hands at all I only got 6x115.
Form can make a big difference. I hold the handles and sit straight up when doing calf raises, and my machine is a little different from Kai’s (the plates sit flat instead of at 45 degrees). Not sure what my max would be if doing it like Kai in the video.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Form can make a big difference. I hold the handles and sit straight up when doing calf raises, and my machine is a little different from Kai’s (the plates sit flat instead of at 45 degrees). Not sure what my max would be if doing it like Kai in the video.[/quote]
Well I guess it’s not a big deal for you but in addition to the ROM problem I feel like using hands makes knowing if you’re progressing even more difficult.
Also if you’re already working calves 4x/week, does it make sense to add more sets/exercises? Right now (idea from PX) I’m working calves 4x/week with one exercise each time. 3-4 sets 6-15 reps, working up to one max set (1st set is light, 2nd is moderate…fairly hard but not that hard, last set is all out). Bonez mentioned 15-20 minutes 4-5 days per week?? How many sets are done in that time because the above only takes me about 6-8 minutes or so (each set maybe a minute and 60-120sec. rest in between)
I don’t think perfect form is as important as consistent form. As long as you’re using the same form every workout, you should be able to gauge progress on your calves. One trick I use on standing calf raises is to be sure my heels touch the floor on every rep. That way, I know I’m not cheating on ROM and can more accurately gauge progress from one week to the next.
Follow PX’s advice, using consistent form, and see where you are after 2-3 months. As long as you’re using a heavy enough load (and ideally increasing it a bit every workout), 4x/week for 3-4 sets of 6-15 reps should be enough to see progress over that period of time.
The way I perform reps: No bounce, explosive as possible. Hold for a two-count, squeezing as hard as possible on every rep. Controlled negative.
I start with 100lbs and rep until they won’t move any more. ROM starts long, but shortens by the time I’m done with the set. Bump up the weight, wait 2min and do it again. Five sets. Then I move to the other movement (I alternate starting exercises).
Walking with the pack on is great because I get steady-state and extra calf work at the same time. Don’t try it after pyramids, someone will have to come get you (if you did the pyramids right).
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I’ve read several times that gaining calf size comes with gaining weight for some people. Do you think that it’s a product of the extra strain on them when walking and running, or more just a function of gaining?
I’ve been thinking about getting an 80lb vest and walking with it for steady state cardio/ calf work? Any thoughts?[/quote]
Great for calf development. If you do this while bulking you will definitely accomplish much more than you would spending a few minutes a few times a week with calf raises. You want to exagerate the calf movement. But becareful with the distance, most people don’t gain 80lbs over night.
Most effective would be running up hill while concentrating on foot work with a weight vest on. Problem is if your older and haven’t ran in a long time you can set yourself up with some serious tendonitis.
My recommendation would be a few EASY sprints on flat land starting with 10lbs and adding 10lbs a week until you’ve built up a base. Then go on to hills with a weighted vest if you still feel it neccessary.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I’ve read several times that gaining calf size comes with gaining weight for some people. Do you think that it’s a product of the extra strain on them when walking and running, or more just a function of gaining?
I’ve been thinking about getting an 80lb vest and walking with it for steady state cardio/ calf work? Any thoughts?[/quote]
Great for calf development. If you do this while bulking you will definitely accomplish much more than you would spending a few minutes a few times a week with calf raises. You want to exagerate the calf movement. But becareful with the distance, most people don’t gain 80lbs over night.
Most effective would be running up hill while concentrating on foot work with a weight vest on. Problem is if your older and haven’t ran in a long time you can set yourself up with some serious tendonitis.
My recommendation would be a few EASY sprints on flat land starting with 10lbs and adding 10lbs a week until you’ve built up a base. Then go on to hills with a weighted vest if you still feel it neccessary. [/quote]
Absolutely. My plan is to start with 40lbs and work my way up for the walking.
For sprinting, I’ve read that you shouldn’t use more than 10% of your BW.
Also considered jumping rope for the impact.
This thread sucks…
Carry on.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I don’t think perfect form is as important as consistent form. As long as you’re using the same form every workout, you should be able to gauge progress on your calves. One trick I use on standing calf raises is to be sure my heels touch the floor on every rep. That way, I know I’m not cheating on ROM and can more accurately gauge progress from one week to the next.
[/quote]
Sorry, your advice doesn’t count, you already have big calves remember?
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Sorry, your advice doesn’t count, you already have big calves remember?
;)[/quote]
Big calves that have grown even bigger