[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Calves- To make your calves really stand out, you must know that there are several muscles there, 1 exercise will not do it. The Grastrocnemius lays on top of the soleus, and both are hit differently during seated or standing calf raises, so do them both. “When doing calves, if it doesnt feel like you’re dying, you arent doing them right.” You did _ lbs for 10+ reps. Well, up the weight, go for 8 reps. Also, stop at the bottom of the movement. Momentum removes a lot of the force that you need to apply. Do a “Double Pop.”
For example standing calf raise- allow your heels to fall below the platform, perform the movement of a calf raise, then at the top of movement, step up a little higher and pinch the calf.
Executing my calf movements with the double pop and with the constant theory that if it isnt hurting, it isnt heavy enough has helped me develop my calves. If some of this information is new to you, utilize it and see what happens to your calves. If you know it, disregard what im saying and dont train your calves.[/quote]
Toe raises wouldn’t hurt either.
I don’t believe that people with bad calve genetics get no results from training them, just mediocre results. Like I said, even if it’s just an extra two inches, it’s better to get that extra small gain than have them look weak even more.
I can see where the OP’s coming from in the sense that I think calves are about 80% genetic and 20% work. Other muscles seem to be a little closer to 50/50.
So it would seem that if you have poor calf genetics, such as high calves…you’d put in a lot of effort and nothing will help the muscle belly move down.
But all in all, I’d still train them hard because you’re in the gym to do so.
[quote]Nards wrote:
I can see where the OP’s coming from in the sense that I think calves are about 80% genetic and 20% work. Other muscles seem to be a little closer to 50/50.
So it would seem that if you have poor calf genetics, such as high calves…you’d put in a lot of effort and nothing will help the muscle belly move down.
But all in all, I’d still train them hard because you’re in the gym to do so.
[/quote]
Yeah, even with 80% genetics / 20% work I think it’s well worth the effort to develop your calves. I was addressing the crowd that claim calves are 100% genetic, and it looks like the consensus is that this isn’t the case, at least not for the majority of people.
[quote]Mikeee wrote:
all that aside what some peoples recommendations on calve training? Higher total sets, say 12+?
Frequency, train them 2x or even 3x a week?
Heavy load, low reps 8-10?
Medium load high reps, 15-30+?
Any tips out there [/quote]
IMO, heavy loads are the way to go, especially with stubborn calves that have a hard time growing. I would much rather go as heavy as possible with decent form at 8-10 reps, rather than go lighter with higher reps. You’re going to recruit more Type 2 fibers that way, and will see better growth as a result.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Calves- To make your calves really stand out, you must know that there are several muscles there, 1 exercise will not do it. The Grastrocnemius lays on top of the soleus, and both are hit differently during seated or standing calf raises, so do them both. “When doing calves, if it doesnt feel like you’re dying, you arent doing them right.” You did _ lbs for 10+ reps. Well, up the weight, go for 8 reps. Also, stop at the bottom of the movement. Momentum removes a lot of the force that you need to apply. Do a “Double Pop.”
For example standing calf raise- allow your heels to fall below the platform, perform the movement of a calf raise, then at the top of movement, step up a little higher and pinch the calf.
Executing my calf movements with the double pop and with the constant theory that if it isnt hurting, it isnt heavy enough has helped me develop my calves. If some of this information is new to you, utilize it and see what happens to your calves. If you know it, disregard what im saying and dont train your calves.[/quote]
Hmmm, I’m gonna give this a try. My calves grow so slowly but this technique is pretty interesting. Thanks!
[quote]forlife wrote:
Many have said here on the boards that calves are mostly genetic, and you’re unlikely to see much significant progress by training them. That said, people still include them in their routines.
I’m wondering why? Why not use that time and effort to develop muscles that respond more favorably to training?
I currently train calves every week, and while I’ve seen some progress over the years, my calves are already genetically large. I’m wondering if it might be smarter to use that slot for something else.[/quote]
Calves are no more “genetic” than any other muscle. They’re probably harder to target than most other muscles, but are no more “genetic.” I haven’t trained calves in several and the atrophy (compared to when I was training them) is pretty obvious.
I very much like the DC approach of training calves. 10-12 reps, an explosive concentric movement, 5 seconds for the eccentric part and then hold it for 15 seconds for the stretch. Repeat untill 10 or 12 reps. If you can do more reps… add weight.
[quote]Sharp4850 wrote:
Bearing all that in mind, this thread seems like nothing more than an attempt to convince someone to stop training their calves. Which is why I responded like I did.[/quote]
As I said earlier:
I have no idea what these people are actually doing. It’s very possible they’re not training correctly, or intensely enough, or for a long enough period of time. If so, they need to fix the issue in order to see progress on their calves.
If not, and they are in fact doing everything possible to get bigger/stronger calves without seeing any progress, how is it sane for them to continue doing it?
[quote]Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein[/quote][/quote]
I don’t have genetics for bodybuilding should I stop trying to make my body better?
Matter of fact if your not in the top 3 bodybuilders that year why even compete?
Either your argument is stupid or your taking what people say a little to extreme. If they say they have genetically poor calfs they’re not saying they will neeeevveerr eevveerr grow. They may be saying they can gain 1 inch every five years, or the minute they stop working on their calves they shrink up. Trust me 16 inch calves look a whole lot better then 14. Specially when the upper body is fairly developed.
[quote]celtics2022 wrote:
You are a total joke, dude. I’m trying to help you wake up but apparently you are just going to keep trolling.
[/quote]
I know what I can lift in the gym. Your opinion of what I can or can’t do means nothing to me, nor does it have anything to do with this thread. Feel free to comment on the actual topic, though.[/quote]
You ever see a power lifter throw up 500lbs on the bench press with relatively weak pecs (aesthetically speaking of course).
This is the point. Regardless of how much weight you can calf press (seated calf press is only half the equation but I assume you also do standing stuff or donkey press) you aren’t hitting the muscle properly.
You said, in a round about way, that if somoene doesnt see improvements in a muscle group through training, why bother? Has it occured to you that people are training to learn how their bodies react. If I gave up training my chest after not getting good results with the barbell bench press and not try a different method I’d laugh at myself.
Some peoples calves grow slower than other body parts but I really havent met somoene that trains their calves for 15-20 minutes a day 4-5 days a week that hasnt seen growth. Calves are a muscle like the rest. With PROPER stimulus and food intake they will grow.
People seem to think that everything in life should come easy and without work… and that is why, as a whole, they never achieve what they set out to do.
[quote]schism45 wrote:
People seem to think that everything in life should come easy and without work… and that is why, as a whole, they never achieve what they set out to do.
OP is a great example of this attitude.[/quote]
How about taking the time to read the thread and understand my actual position instead of throwing out clueless personal comments?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
This is the point. Regardless of how much weight you can calf press (seated calf press is only half the equation but I assume you also do standing stuff or donkey press) you aren’t hitting the muscle properly. [/quote]
I do both seated and standing calf presses, what is your point? I specifically said that I have personally seen growth in my calves, but that my calves are already genetically large.
AGAIN, I was referring to people that claim it is impossible for their calves to grow, despite training correctly. I never said their claim is correct, only that they make the claim.
I get tremendous satisfaction training my calves, I love the feeling of pounding such a small muscle and dripping with sweat from it. Pile on the weight and focus on the stretch.
Also, leverage is everything, you need to position yourself so the end of you foot (ie: toes) is on the edge for calf raises, to maximize ROM.
Also, try walking “higher” in your stride using your calves to propel you.
Do sprints in the same style, cushion your landing with your calves, and propel with them also.
Put on cleats and sprint on turf, also helps with feeling the calves doing the work.
Under the right stimuli everything can grow. Sure the “genetic” is a limiting factor but it still will be far more advantageous to train a low responsive bodypart over not training it at all.
I’ve read several times that gaining calf size comes with gaining weight for some people. Do you think that it’s a product of the extra strain on them when walking and running, or more just a function of gaining?
I’ve been thinking about getting an 80lb vest and walking with it for steady state cardio/ calf work? Any thoughts?
This is the point. Regardless of how much weight you can calf press (seated calf press is only half the equation but I assume you also do standing stuff or donkey press) you aren’t hitting the muscle properly. [/quote]
This is what I was wondering because while I never directly work my calves, I feel them in every lift. They are always fatigued. I can feel them in every step when I walk or run too.