Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
This isn’t a serious question.
How can you rationalize not working a specific muscle group to be an advantage? Assuming that muscle isn’t injured.
You are an idiot?
[quote]the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?[/quote]
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.
[quote]the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?[/quote]
My thoughts?
I think you should avoid legs altogether. Girls don’t see them anyway and it will free up more time to train biceps and chest. Now ABZ…those require DAILY attention.
[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.[/quote]
In all reality, I do not train forearms. They were always pretty big (at least big enough to get comments on their size since high school).
If someone were truly just gifted with huge calves, training them would not be a priority.
I consider them on the same level as forearms in that regard. If you have them, great…now you don’t need to do an hour of wrist curls daily.
my left calf cramped up this morning and its still pretty sore, it was super weird seeing it cramp up too… i know this didnt add anything to the thread at all but man calve cramps hurt like a bitch.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.
In all reality, I do not train forearms. They were always pretty big (at least big enough to get comments on their size since high school).
If someone were truly just gifted with huge calves, training them would not be a priority.
I consider them on the same level as forearms in that regard. If you have them, great…now you don’t need to do an hour of wrist curls daily.[/quote]
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups. Im not sure if stimulation is the right word, in either case, but I know I don’t feel anything in my calves after doing my upper leg work but I surely feel my forearms getting serious stimulation after rack pulls and shrugs.
What do you think?
Thanks for those who took this seriously. I figure size-wise that naturally big=less work needed/small=more. I was asking in regard to general muscle health and possible imbalances. The quads vs. calves imbalance claim sounded weird, especially knowing (as mentioned) that many powerlifters don’t work calves.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups? [/quote]
No. At least not unless you are doing a calf raise at the end of each rep on the leg press. They need direct work to grow aside from walking. Forearms get trained by any grip work and even when curling. If you are strong enough to curl an 80lbs dumbbell for reps, it is very doubtful that you could do this with TINY forearms. I just haven’t seen it.
I don’t even use straps anymore at all (even though I did use them years back so that no one thinks I am just against them) and they seem to be holding size well by just lifting heavy shit.
My calves on the other hand didn’t really grow until my body weight went up. I train them daily and while they have improved, growth on them is so slow it makes me wonder if I am wasting my time.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
My thoughts?
I think you should avoid legs altogether. Girls don’t see them anyway and it will free up more time to train biceps and chest. Now ABZ…those require DAILY attention.
[/quote]
Beach body/babyboomerz split: you wanna get some galz?, follow this advice.
1- Chest and bicepz
Flat bench (barbell) 30-25-20-15-12-10-8-6-4 and give a max a try! Note: all rep ranges are included on this workout, this assures you’ll get most benefits of every rep range!
Incline bench (barbell) 30-25-20-15-12-10-8-6-4
Decline bench (barbell) 10x10
Flat bench (dumbbell) 8x3
Incline bench (dumbbell) 10x3
Decline bench (dumbbell) 5x5
Flat bench (machine) 4x50 (high repz for cutz)
Incline bench (machine) 4x50 (upper pecs should have cutz too right?)
Decline bench (machine) 4x50
Bodyweight dips: if you make these you’re the man.
A. Cable crossovers
B. Peck deck
C. Pushups
Perform A,B and C as a triset, 100 reps each for maxing your striations.
A.Barbell curlz (wide grip)
B.Barbell curlz (close grip)
C.Barbell curlz (regular grip)
Perform as trisets, 50-30-25-20-15-12-10-8-6-4 and a max of each one (after the gunz you’re gonna have, every friend is going to ask you what your max barbell curl is)
Preacher curlz (close)
Preacher curlz (wide)
Preacher curlz (regular)
Perform as trisets with the same rep ranges of the first exercise. Note: the first triset was wide, close and regular grip, and the second is close, wide and regular girp, this will add some variety and trigger your muscles with confusion which will make them grow like weedz.
Hammer curls 10x100 (for the outer bicep to get some cutz)
2-Glutes (isolate them) and abs
Glute machine 50-30-25-20-15 (this is for shape) 12-10-8-6-4 (this is for mass if you’re lacking on them).
Abz
Crunches 2000 repz total
Raises 1000 repz total
… and repeat the cycle. Understood?
[quote]the.israeli wrote:
Thanks for those who took this seriously. I figure size-wise that naturally big=less work needed/small=more. I was asking in regard to general muscle health and possible imbalances. The quads vs. calves imbalance claim sounded weird, especially knowing (as mentioned) that many powerlifters don’t work calves.[/quote]
In terms of imbalances, think of it as opposing muscle groups in the same general area. Your back and your chest. Your quads and your hamstrings. Your calves and the tibialis anterior. Your biceps and triceps.
No, calves should not cause an imbalance directly in your quads…but who wants small calves?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.
In all reality, I do not train forearms. They were always pretty big (at least big enough to get comments on their size since high school).
If someone were truly just gifted with huge calves, training them would not be a priority.
I consider them on the same level as forearms in that regard. If you have them, great…now you don’t need to do an hour of wrist curls daily.
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups. Im not sure if stimulation is the right word, in either case, but I know I don’t feel anything in my calves after doing my upper leg work but I surely feel my forearms getting serious stimulation after rack pulls and shrugs.
What do you think? [/quote]
I’ve just recieved, or at least felt, enought stimulation on my claves from doing higher rep leg stuff.
[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
Professor X wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
My thoughts?
I think you should avoid legs altogether. Girls don’t see them anyway and it will free up more time to train biceps and chest. Now ABZ…those require DAILY attention.
Beach body/babyboomerz split: you wanna get some galz?, follow this advice.
1- Chest and bicepz
Flat bench (barbell) 30-25-20-15-12-10-8-6-4 and give a max a try! Note: all rep ranges are included on this workout, this assures you’ll get most benefits of every rep range!
Incline bench (barbell) 30-25-20-15-12-10-8-6-4
Decline bench (barbell) 10x10
Flat bench (dumbbell) 8x3
Incline bench (dumbbell) 10x3
Decline bench (dumbbell) 5x5
Flat bench (machine) 4x50 (high repz for cutz)
Incline bench (machine) 4x50 (upper pecs should have cutz too right?)
Decline bench (machine) 4x50
Bodyweight dips: if you make these you’re the man.
A. Cable crossovers
B. Peck deck
C. Pushups
Perform A,B and C as a triset, 100 reps each for maxing your striations.
A.Barbell curlz (wide grip)
B.Barbell curlz (close grip)
C.Barbell curlz (regular grip)
Perform as trisets, 50-30-25-20-15-12-10-8-6-4 and a max of each one (after the gunz you’re gonna have, every friend is going to ask you what your max barbell curl is)
Preacher curlz (close)
Preacher curlz (wide)
Preacher curlz (regular)
Perform as trisets with the same rep ranges of the first exercise. Note: the first triset was wide, close and regular grip, and the second is close, wide and regular girp, this will add some variety and trigger your muscles with confusion which will make them grow like weedz.
Hammer curls 10x100 (for the outer bicep to get some cutz)
2-Glutes (isolate them) and abs
Glute machine 50-30-25-20-15 (this is for shape) 12-10-8-6-4 (this is for mass if you’re lacking on them).
Abz
Crunches 2000 repz total
Raises 1000 repz total
… and repeat the cycle. Understood?[/quote]
Perfect timing! This is the program that I’ve been waiting for! Now, should I do the concentric explosively or take 6 seconds up? How about the eccentric portion? 6.231958 seconds or should I do them in front of the mirror while winking at myself?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups?
No. At least not unless you are doing a calf raise at the end of each rep on the leg press. They need direct work to grow aside from walking. Forearms get trained by any grip work and even when curling. If you are strong enough to curl an 80lbs dumbbell for reps, it is very doubtful that you could do this with TINY forearms. I just haven’t seen it.
I don’t even use straps anymore at all (even though I did use them years back so that no one thinks I am just against them) and they seem to be holding size well by just lifting heavy shit.
My calves on the other hand didn’t really grow until my body weight went up. I train them daily and while they have improved, growth on them is so slow it makes me wonder if I am wasting my time.[/quote]
Gotcha
I agree
[quote]Taufiq wrote:
Perfect timing! This is the program that I’ve been waiting for! Now, should I do the concentric explosively or take 6 seconds up? How about the eccentric portion? 6.231958 seconds or should I do them in front of the mirror while winking at myself?
[/quote]
Just breaking the 5.9999999 seconds barrier should do. The mirror winking works best from my experience while you squeeze the muscle, no more than 3.5 seconds.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.
In all reality, I do not train forearms. They were always pretty big (at least big enough to get comments on their size since high school).
If someone were truly just gifted with huge calves, training them would not be a priority.
I consider them on the same level as forearms in that regard. If you have them, great…now you don’t need to do an hour of wrist curls daily.
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups. Im not sure if stimulation is the right word, in either case, but I know I don’t feel anything in my calves after doing my upper leg work but I surely feel my forearms getting serious stimulation after rack pulls and shrugs.
What do you think? [/quote]
The difference is that with rack pulls etc. you are gripping the weight and therefore actively engaging the forearm. With squats and leg press you’re obviously not gripping anything with your toes and without moving your ankle, you don’t engage the muscle.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.
In all reality, I do not train forearms. They were always pretty big (at least big enough to get comments on their size since high school).
If someone were truly just gifted with huge calves, training them would not be a priority.
I consider them on the same level as forearms in that regard. If you have them, great…now you don’t need to do an hour of wrist curls daily.
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups. Im not sure if stimulation is the right word, in either case, but I know I don’t feel anything in my calves after doing my upper leg work but I surely feel my forearms getting serious stimulation after rack pulls and shrugs.
What do you think? [/quote]
Try doing a set of calf raises to failure followed with minimal rest by a set of heavy squats. You will find your calves will limit your heavy squat significantly. Your calves are a major supporting muscle for heavy multi-joint quad and rear chain movements.
I think calf raises are the most improperly performed exercise ever. I see even seasoned trainers who would never perform otehr movements with such poor form using a significantly reduced range of motion and bouncing calf raises and then bemoaning their “hard” to develop calves. Anybody can develop their calves if they perform calf raises correctly; 2 seconds up, 4 seconds down; full stop at the bottom; full stretch at the bottom; full stop at the top with additonal tensing; etc.
the.israeli
At no point would this seem like a reasonable concept to me. I don’t mean to rip on you, but how old are you? Do you actually think about these topics before making a thread?
Logically, the forearms would work on anything that requires you to hold heavy objects, as PX mentioned. I don’t know how the calves would work in an exercise which has no plantar or dorsal flexion. No expert, but I don’t see how this would happen to any noticeable degree, and it hasn’t happened for me. I thought of adding plantar flexion to every rep of squats/deadlifts at some point, but that wouldn’t work because it’s too hard to balance, and you’d need to have your heels drop below the toes… Which would make quality squatting/deading impossible. I guess it’s an option on the leg press, though, if you’re desperate for time.
As mentioned by people before me, some guys just have naturally good calves. I, personally, don’t. I also have weak forearms. Some people might not NEED to work on these muscle groups seperately, but I can’t imagine that giving them additional attention will not have any benefit.
And, finally… I think that for a lot of people, calves and medial delts absolutely require additional attention as far as bodybuilding goes, even if you’re pressed for time and only sticking to compounds in a workout plan. Say what you want about chin-ups, but your arms very clearly get more stimulation from them than your calves and medial delts get from military pressing and squats.
… Well, that’s my 2 cents, anyway. Bigger and more experienced have already said most of what’s important before me, and these are just the things I’ve gathered from my own personal experiences.
[quote]Rape Weight wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
the.israeli wrote:
Some guy I usually respect for serious training advice (+ he has MASS) told me something I’ve never heard before - that I shouldn’t neglect my calves - not because of symmetry and size, but so it wouldn’t somehow cause unhealthy imbalances with my quads… Your thoughts?
To my knowledge I haven’t heard before that calf neglecting can cause quad imbalances, but I’m not any guru so many people in here could prove me wrong.
I’ll use my brother as an example; he has like 19" calves, and never trains them. He squats way more than me; he powerlifts. I don’t know of any imbalance he has, to the contrary he has a more developed tear drop and vastus medialis than me (28" legs at 5’10"). It may be because of his powerlifting training, but he always had big legs.
I’ll take the main point from what my coach told me “If you have genetically big calves, good for you, one thing less to worry about; if they’re small, no other way that kicking their ass”.
In all reality, I do not train forearms. They were always pretty big (at least big enough to get comments on their size since high school).
If someone were truly just gifted with huge calves, training them would not be a priority.
I consider them on the same level as forearms in that regard. If you have them, great…now you don’t need to do an hour of wrist curls daily.
Quick question slightly OT, if you don’t mind
Do you calves receieve similar stimulation from doing something like a squat or a leg press the same way forearm muscles receive stimulation from doing things like deadlift variations, shrugs, pullups. Im not sure if stimulation is the right word, in either case, but I know I don’t feel anything in my calves after doing my upper leg work but I surely feel my forearms getting serious stimulation after rack pulls and shrugs.
What do you think?
The difference is that with rack pulls etc. you are gripping the weight and therefore actively engaging the forearm. With squats and leg press you’re obviously not gripping anything with your toes and without moving your ankle, you don’t engage the muscle.[/quote]
I’m aware.
I brought it up because I think X was a little unclear when making the analogy.