I’ve been doing power cleans for the past 6 or so months and my back has been as strong as a bison! Seriously, I had to shovel a ton of dirt and normally my back gets tired and I start losing form, not anymore…my back stayed hella strong the whole time!
I consider cleans a full body deadlift.
Like other people have said, lose form on deadlifts and you will regret it! Don’t show off…
I’m back!..boy do I feel stupid for posting this question!
A year or so later and I actually gave the deadlift some justice by doing it properly lol.
I’m currently doing 350lbs.
One thing I will say though, if you want a big back doing deadlifts, I found that doing 12+ reps is the best way to go. I had only been doing an average of 6 reps/set…but the higher rep range seems to really “blow up the back”.
My back isn’t massively wider than it was, but it’s definitely thicker and my traps have grown a lot.
I would disagree with some comments about it always stimulating growth in other areas though because it’s an easy exercise to make your body overtrained in…so the testosterone benefits of the lift could be outweighed by the “drain”.
I recently started doing deadlifts every other week instead of every week. When I was doing them every week, it seemed like my lower back was taking too much of a beating coupled with heavy squats as well. I did them both every week for a couple years. Maybe heavy deads just take more time to recover from fully. I’m up to 465 now.
Also, back on topic, deads make your back huge. I don’t care how many rows and pullups you do, they won’t give you the thickness of someone who deads big numbers.
[quote]derek wrote:
If you’ve seen the development of life-long deadlifters, you wouldn’t be asking that question.
ScottM’s picture is awesome and just a small example of what big deadlifting can do for you.
Do you really think 225lb shrugs can compare to a 500lb deadlift as far as upper back and trap thickness goes?[/quote]
Why are you comparing a 225 lb shrug to a 500 lb deadlift? If someone is strong enough to deadlift 500 they would be shrugging about the same.
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
How bad are dead lifts for someone with a pre existing lower back condition?[/quote]
I see you changed your mind about deadlifts in 2 minutes it seems! 
I threw my back out something fierce 2 years ago when I tried doing about 275 or something but using all 25s on the bar…I didn’t start the first rep right and thought to myself “next rep I gotta straighten my back!” but then BOOM goes my lower back.
What I’m saying is that that it’s not the lift that’s bad, it’s that if you round your back you’ll do something bad.
I’m deadlifting again, but being careful.
Lol @ all of you who said you can’t build a big, thick back without deads.
[quote]josh86 wrote:
Lol @ all of you who said you can’t build a big, thick back without deads. [/quote]
You may be able to, but why walk across the country when you can drive?
I find the variations of the deadlift more useful from a bodybuilding-perspective than regular full-ROM deads (esp. for people with short arms or slight flexibility issues)…
-Rack Pulls/Drag Rack Pulls for backthickness
-Sumo, SLDL, RDL for hams
And sometimes deads just don’t fit into a routine at all… Big deal.
There is no single exercise that somehow trumps everything else (for bodybuilding purposes) and MUST be done.
Absolutely none.
[quote]lt1powerd wrote:
josh86 wrote:
Lol @ all of you who said you can’t build a big, thick back without deads.
You may be able to, but why walk across the country when you can drive?[/quote]
Because gasoline is expensive 
On a more serious note: Josh knows a thing or two about back training. Just saying.
My pr is 565 pounds from the floor. Ive been training the deadlift seriously for 3 years now. Not only does it build tremendous back thickness, but width as well. Most of you overlook the fact that it is tremendously effective at enhancing your grip strength and building strong, muscular forearms.
Not sure if the deadlift for me has enhanced my biceps to a great degree though I will say that if your biceps are a weak link and you use shaky form on the deadlift you will tear it. Be careful and keep deadlifting. Deadlifting makes you more powerful, and releases a great deal of testosterone. It makes you a better athlete and you will perform better on your other lifts. keep those calories up though. shit is draining. peace.
You don’t NEED to do deadlifts to build a good back but it’s a good exercise if done correctly. Funny, I recently had a similar discussion with a friend who’s struggeling hard with deadlifts.
He’s built for squatting and benching but has a horrible time moving heavy weights from the floor. Since he still wanted to deadlift I suggested that he’d skip conventional deads and try to mix sumo deads and rack pulls for a while.
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
Dead lifting puts your lower back at risk for injury. Especially if you have any prior complications. So WHY bother?[/quote]
When properly executed, the deadlift is a pretty safe exercise. Of course the results can be disastrous if they’re poorly done though, but the same holds true for practically all big lifts.
Freak accidents can happen durng pretty much all lifts even with safe form but with proper technique the risk is very small. Because the risk is so small, the rewards are generally considered worth it. Sadly, there is no exercise that’s absolutely 100% safe.
Ironically, the only time I’ve hurt my leg in the gym was recently during a set of fucking leg extensions with a weight I can do for 10-12 reps…
[quote]fightnews10 wrote:
How bad are dead lifts for someone with a pre existing lower back condition?[/quote]
It depends on what type of injury you have. Chances are you’ll never be able to pull heavy but you may very well be able to train deadlifts to some extent. Whether it’s worth it or not is probably impossible to say without knowing much more about your particular case.
I had never done deadlifts because I have a problem with my lower back. Last month while at the gym I noticed a deadlift machine. I tried it (no weights on it) and I had major back pain for like three weeks. Maybe it was the machine or my form. I’ll never know.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I find the variations of the deadlift more useful from a bodybuilding-perspective than regular full-ROM deads (esp. for people with short arms or slight flexibility issues)…
-Rack Pulls/Drag Rack Pulls for backthickness
-Sumo, SLDL, RDL for hams
And sometimes deads just don’t fit into a routine at all… Big deal.
There is no single exercise that somehow trumps everything else (for bodybuilding purposes) and MUST be done.
Absolutely none.
[/quote]
No! Unless you train my mentors ‘Russian Press’, according to his ‘Physical Standards’ you will never look like Arnold whom never of the shit!? If someone does not get this post then, God help us all…
[quote]Antares wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
I find the variations of the deadlift more useful from a bodybuilding-perspective than regular full-ROM deads (esp. for people with short arms or slight flexibility issues)…
-Rack Pulls/Drag Rack Pulls for backthickness
-Sumo, SLDL, RDL for hams
And sometimes deads just don’t fit into a routine at all… Big deal.
There is no single exercise that somehow trumps everything else (for bodybuilding purposes) and MUST be done.
Absolutely none.
No! Unless you train my mentors ‘Russian Press’, according to his ‘Physical Standards’ you will never look like Arnold whom never of the shit!? If someone does not get this post then, God help us all…
[/quote]
C_C I understand perfectly. I have no idea what your point is perhaps due language barriers. And, your continued reference to your mysterious mentor and his training approach and his ‘Physical Standards’ is getting to be a bit much. Are you going to share the details of these training programs and his ‘standards’?
[quote]giterdone wrote:
C_C I understand perfectly. I have no idea what your point is perhaps due language barriers. And, your continued reference to your mysterious mentor and his training approach and his ‘Physical Standards’ is getting to be a bit much. Are you going to share the details of these training programs and his ‘standards’? [/quote]
I was poking fun at myself with that last post.
Yes I am a poor communicator. That is not a joke.
Yes I will share, in as much detail ( and as little space ) as possible. These ‘Physical Standards.’ His methods, and so forth, pretty soon. I have to find the training logs, and note books though…Only the blown out ‘Physical Theory’ shit is hard to translate as they are a bunch of yellowed notes written in Russian. My French is much better, so that stuff, I have made some progress on before I came here. The old shit, the stuff he wrote in Russia, is a bigger problem. I should have it up here soon, though.
I am especially looking forward to OUTSIDE opinion on this stuff, and where he was good/bad/nutz/ugly, etc.
[quote]Antares wrote:
giterdone wrote:
C_C I understand perfectly. I have no idea what your point is perhaps due language barriers. And, your continued reference to your mysterious mentor and his training approach and his ‘Physical Standards’ is getting to be a bit much. Are you going to share the details of these training programs and his ‘standards’?
I was poking fun at myself with that last post.
Yes I am a poor communicator. That is not a joke.
Yes I will share, in as much detail ( and as little space ) as possible. These ‘Physical Standards.’ His methods, and so forth, pretty soon. I have to find the training logs, and note books though…Only the blown out ‘Physical Theory’ shit is hard to translate as they are a bunch of yellowed notes written in Russian. My French is much better, so that stuff, I have made some progress on before I came here. The old shit, the stuff he wrote in Russia, is a bigger problem. I should have it up here soon, though.
I am especially looking forward to OUTSIDE opinion on this stuff, and where he was good/bad/nutz/ugly, etc.
[/quote]
Interesting. If you can’t find the log books then perhaps you can provide some details on how you currently train using his methods.
If I understand from one of your other posts, he had a deadlift ‘physical standard’ ideal of 35 reps x 2xBW in a single set. Multiple sets were initially used (7x5 for example) to hit 35 reps but the progression came from minimizing the number of sets until ultimately doing it in a single set. Is that about right?
I don’t pull from the floor anymore, well haven’t in a few months, but my rack pull has gotten up too 515 for 8 reps. By far my back side of my body is way more impressive than my front. I attribute rack deads, t bar rows, and dumbell rows to my back development mainly. Now if I could just get my medial delts, upper chest, and biceps to grow like my legs, back, glutes and traps do i’d be golden.
I’d say, as a movement, the deadlift is one of the most rewarding lifts you can do. Partly because, as you said, it works numerous muscles at once and also because it’s a difficult lift. It’s one you have to learn to a higher degree than other popular lifts, in my experience you don’t see people moving heavy weights without good form as far as deadlifting goes and if you do it’s not long before you see the same guy shoulders slumped making his way to the leg press machine because “deadlifts hurt his back”. Always found the cd’s that grow on me turn out to be my favourites in the end, deadlifts for me have the same charm.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
There is no single exercise that somehow trumps everything else and MUST be done.
Absolutely none.
[/quote]
Bodybuilding truism if there ever was one.
[quote]giterdone wrote:
Interesting. If you can’t find the log books then perhaps you can provide some details on how you currently train using his methods.
If I understand from one of your other posts, he had a deadlift ‘physical standard’ ideal of 35 reps x 2xBW in a single set. Multiple sets were initially used (7x5 for example) to hit 35 reps but the progression came from minimizing the number of sets until ultimately doing it in a single set. Is that about right?[/quote]
That’s about it. The whole system wasn’t to hit the ‘Physical Standards’ though. The system is very ‘Mutable’ as I call it. That was the starting point for the truly ambitious, and most likely the destination for the average guy/girl. He wondered at people with 150# Standing Presses, asking where their shoulders were. Or guys who couldn’t do 70 Pull ups ( 10 x 7, 7 x 10 or whatever set/rep system as long as it there was about 70 total reps in one set some day ) asking for ‘back’ advice.
It’s hard to describe him…He was not a ‘pure’ body builder I would say. He started before the Bench was invented, so I think he never lost his Strong Man/ Olympic roots. Though he did advocate Isolation Movements right out of the gate.
He was more like, ’ You can’t move your own bodyweight on a bar X amount of times and you don’t ‘like your chest?’ ’ ‘No shit…’ That’s the way he was…Period.
There is more to it overall than that, however. I am working on the shit. I will make a whole thread about it. Annoying as that may be to some people, I think that would be least chaotic way to get input on my mentor, and answer questions.