[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
lt1powerd wrote:
josh86 wrote:
Lol @ all of you who said you can’t build a big, thick back without deads.
You may be able to, but why walk across the country when you can drive?
Because gasoline is expensive 
On a more serious note: Josh knows a thing or two about back training. Just saying.
[/quote]
Thanks man. =)
Keeping in mind that you are asking for bodybuilding purposes, There is ALOT of merit to doing deads, There are a lot of great post here and on the link njrusmc left but i also want to add a few things.
I know u are already aware of its effect on the posterior chain (IE,back, hams, glutes, etc.). But when your body has to overcome a VERY EXTREME stimulus, such as a Heavy dead, a maximal Sprint, hell, anything MAXIMAL, your body will not only contract extremely aggressively on the muscles you are working but EVERYTHING,very differently than any Target movement you could do, (Its the bodies self protecting mechanism)
Where ever on your body that u are developed in usually finds a way to spill over It is not uncommon to see a sprinter get a pump in his biceps or pecs after a max sprint even though they really dont have a purpose in sprinting, again its the "spill Over" effect.And as a bodybuilder I think it is only logical that you would want to BUILD the BODY.
Another reason we could add is the extreme overload that your back has to undergo during the lift, (if youve been reading about training for a while, I guarantee you know the importance of Overload to the muscle)
When you dead lift, the traps complex and rhomboids Isometrically contract very hard to keep you shoulders and shoulder blades from coming off your body, The spinal erectors contract Isometrically to keep from letting the spine rounding off and as for the lats, well, just visualize the sensation of the end feel of a straight arm pull down, and pull the barbell toward your body during the whole lift, almost like a car's wheel is driving up your body. I call it the Invisible Technique to Big Lats because only you will know if you are pulling toward and up or just up. All these muscles being loaded to this extreme cannot be replaced by the "lighter by nature" lifts, so just do complete programs that have these compounds and Isolation movements for total body development, They all have their place.
If the full range is beating you up a lil too much, you could always try to do rack pulls from shin level, You'll be able to hit your back very well in this manner too.
For back thickness, I’ve been doing rack pulls (from about the knee level) exclusively for about a year now (from 405 for reps to 625 for reps), and now, revisiting the deadlift, I must say, I forgot how exciting it is to bang out a heavy set from the floor. It has a completely different feeling IMHO. They each have their place.
Can’t wait to get to 6 plates for reps!
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
For back thickness, I’ve been doing rack pulls (from about the knee level) exclusively for about a year now (from 405 for reps to 625 for reps), and now, revisiting the deadlift, I must say, I forgot how exciting it is to bang out a heavy set from the floor. It has a completely different feeling IMHO. They each have their place.
Can’t wait to get to 6 plates for reps![/quote]
Are you saying that you progressed from using 405 to using 625 for reps in a year. If so, fuck you…I kid, kinda. What are you doing from the floor?
Based on some trial and error, I believe finding movements that work, and sticking with them like you did with racks, is superior to constantly rotating through a list of exercises. I’ll admit to rotating through deads, rack pulls, t-bar, BB rows for thickness in the past year. They are all good but doing them all on a rotating basis is not the way to go…for me anyway. I made better progress when I just stuck with one or two money movements (rack deads and BB rows) so I’ll be refocusing on those for now.
There was/is an interesting discussion in CT’s section about how switching exercises too frequently screws with muscle gains. Basically…
Increase in intermuscular coordination - first 2-3 wks training.
Increase in intramuscular coordination - 4-6 wks training.
Increase in muscle hypertrophy - 6-12 wks training.
Then possible stagnation.
(not a quote from CT but he agreed with it)
[quote]giterdone wrote:
Increase in intermuscular coordination - first 2-3 wks training.
Increase in intramuscular coordination - 4-6 wks training.
Increase in muscle hypertrophy - 6-12 wks training.
Then possible stagnation.
(not a quote from CT but he agreed with it)
[/quote]
In muscle building nutrition (Bonus report by Charles Poliquin), Charles says that an average bodybuilder adapts to an average training routine in as little as 6 exposures to it. In advanced bodybuilders (e.g. 2.2 x bodyweight in Bench) it takes as little as 4 exposures to a training program before adaptation occurs.
After adaptation occurs, a change in reps/sets (focus on intensity or volume) etc will ensure better hypertrophy (than just change in load alone).
But then again, this method of training is not ideal for maximal strength gains which aid hypertrophy (changing lifting parameters every 2-3 weeks)…if you switch from one phase to another, the previous gains in the last phase get smaller with focus on the new phase.
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
[quote]Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts. [/quote]
Wow, he developed that physique just from deadlifts? I hope my triceps and calves get that big when I get to deadlifting 400lbs+ for reps
As already stated, I’ve got nothing against Deadlifts…I just hate to see an “all or nothing” type attitude when it comes to them (e.g. “you gotta do 'em or you won’t grow big”…“all you need is deadlifts”).
[quote]Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts. [/quote]
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.
[quote]Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts. [/quote]
He actually has a rather weak back… Look at some of his competition pics.
He looks best just walking around rather than dieted down etc… Still a great physique.
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.[/quote]
Considering that the safety bars are pretty low for shrugs, and high for full range deadlift, he’ll probably be doing partial deadlifts…aka Rack Pulls (hence why he’s in the rack lol).
Just a guess, he could still be doing shrugs…
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.
Considering that the safety bars are pretty low for shrugs, and high for full range deadlift, he’ll probably be doing partial deadlifts…aka Rack Pulls (hence why he’s in a rack lol).
Just a guess, he could still be doing shrugs…[/quote]
Or… He just held the weight statically because it was a photoshoot… The weight is far too little for him for anything but a warm-up or fake set, no matter whether he was doing shrugs, deadlifts or rack pulls.
As far as I know, Frank doesn’t usually train with his shirt off either
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
its_just_me wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.
Considering that the safety bars are pretty low for shrugs, and high for full range deadlift, he’ll probably be doing partial deadlifts…aka Rack Pulls (hence why he’s in a rack lol).
Just a guess, he could still be doing shrugs…
Or… He just held the weight statically because it was a photoshoot… The weight is far too little for him for anything but a warm-up or fake set, no matter whether he was doing shrugs, deadlifts or rack pulls.
As far as I know, Frank doesn’t usually train with his shirt off either
[/quote]
Yeah, or that lol
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
giterdone wrote:
Increase in intermuscular coordination - first 2-3 wks training.
Increase in intramuscular coordination - 4-6 wks training.
Increase in muscle hypertrophy - 6-12 wks training.
Then possible stagnation.
(not a quote from CT but he agreed with it)
In muscle building nutrition (Bonus report by Charles Poliquin), Charles says that an average bodybuilder adapts to an average training routine in as little as 6 exposures to it. In advanced bodybuilders (e.g. 2.2 x bodyweight in Bench) it takes as little as 4 exposures to a training program before adaptation occurs.
After adaptation occurs, a change in reps/sets (focus on intensity or volume) etc will ensure better hypertrophy (than just change in load alone).
But then again, this method of training is not ideal for maximal strength gains which aid hypertrophy (changing lifting parameters every 2-3 weeks)…if you switch from one phase to another, the previous gains in the last phase get smaller with focus on the new phase.[/quote]
I didn’t say not to change reps/sets. I think folks will do that instinctively once they have some experience. Load progression at some reasonable rep range is proven though.
I was referring to swapping out movements before the body has an opportunity to get past the coordination, neural pathways, whatever it is phase. I’m sure some can stop doing a movement for 3 weeks, do other stuff and come back to the original and be stronger…I ain’t one of 'em.
Anyway, back to deadlifts.
They’ll make your dick bigger.
I just started deadlifts about a month ago but had been training for about a year and a half before. I haven’t seen a dramatic increase in size but my grip strength has improved.
I used to watch the guys grunt and moan to lift heavy weight for a few reps and though - what ass clowns. Now I’m one of them…Karma!!!
I just started deadlifts about a month ago but had been training for about a year and a half before. I haven’t seen a dramatic increase in size but my grip strength has improved.
I used to watch the guys grunt and moan to lift heavy weight for a few reps and thought - what ass clowns. Now I’m one of them…Karma!!!
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
its_just_me wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.
Considering that the safety bars are pretty low for shrugs, and high for full range deadlift, he’ll probably be doing partial deadlifts…aka Rack Pulls (hence why he’s in a rack lol).
Just a guess, he could still be doing shrugs…
Or… He just held the weight statically because it was a photoshoot… The weight is far too little for him for anything but a warm-up or fake set, no matter whether he was doing shrugs, deadlifts or rack pulls.
As far as I know, Frank doesn’t usually train with his shirt off either
[/quote]
but thats not frank cc thats evan centopani
[quote]sid132 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
its_just_me wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.
Considering that the safety bars are pretty low for shrugs, and high for full range deadlift, he’ll probably be doing partial deadlifts…aka Rack Pulls (hence why he’s in a rack lol).
Just a guess, he could still be doing shrugs…
Or… He just held the weight statically because it was a photoshoot… The weight is far too little for him for anything but a warm-up or fake set, no matter whether he was doing shrugs, deadlifts or rack pulls.
As far as I know, Frank doesn’t usually train with his shirt off either
but thats not frank cc thats evan centopani[/quote]
Haha that’s what I was gunna say.
Evan > Frank IMO.
I love deadlifts. That’s sufficient reason, for me, unto itself.
[quote]sid132 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
its_just_me wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
Hellfish wrote:
In my point of view, simply this picture is a decent reason to do deadlifts.
Nice pic, but he could very well have been doing shrugs.
Considering that the safety bars are pretty low for shrugs, and high for full range deadlift, he’ll probably be doing partial deadlifts…aka Rack Pulls (hence why he’s in a rack lol).
Just a guess, he could still be doing shrugs…
Or… He just held the weight statically because it was a photoshoot… The weight is far too little for him for anything but a warm-up or fake set, no matter whether he was doing shrugs, deadlifts or rack pulls.
As far as I know, Frank doesn’t usually train with his shirt off either
but thats not frank cc thats evan centopani[/quote]
Really? Damn. Well, they’re both with the same company, so whatever
Anyway, Frank still has a weakish back… Despite deadlifting and rowing heavy… Poor guy, and now with a torn triceps…