When Are You 'Big Enough?'

Professor_X · March 16, 2010, 12:48am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I also disagree with you that insecurity occurs just as much in the general population as it does amongst the gym enthusiast. There is a billion dollar industry out there that sells dreams to every young boy and adult male alike - it’s called the supplement industry. And the enduring undeniable theme is to get “bigger” and be more manly Have you really thought this thru?[/quote]

I wasn’t aware I made a habit of not thinking things through.

There is also a billion dollar industry for music, haircare products, and designer jeans. People are really fucking vain and they have been since the beginning of time. Yet, for some strange reason, people can only note the vanity of bodybuilders openly with insult yet think this is socially acceptable.

Vanity is present in the skinny jeans these dorks are wearing on this site as they cut off their circulation and ability to breed.

Vanity is present in every jackass who actually wishes his name was “The Situation”.

It’s present in people who can’t afford gas but are driving Hummers to work.

It’s present in that girl who has the word “delicious” written across her ass in glitter and rhinestones.

Bodybuilders are not and never have been the gatekeepers to vanity. They simply wear their hard work literally on their sleeve at all times…while that girl eventually has to take her pants off.

Professor_X · March 16, 2010, 12:49am

[quote]themumbler wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t get why this thread bothers people. If he was small, THEN it would bother me. He’s a big guy asking when big is “big enough” just to start a discussion.

I am NOT big enough in terms of muscularity. I am “big enough” in terms of body weight which is why I am dieting and why I am lighter right now than I have been in over two years.

This could actually be a decent discussion if people would quit trying to find fault with the OP for making the thread.[/quote]

What weight have you dieted down to, and how far to you plan on going? Also, how big do want to be in the end? I know you seem to be against setting an end goal, and I get that, just interested to here from someone your size, I’m guessing you’re pretty close to as big as you could get naturally.[/quote]

Holy thread hijack.

DoWork10 · March 16, 2010, 12:52am

I would say you’re big enough when you get your legs to match your torso powerful

TheBodyGuard · March 16, 2010, 1:39am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I also disagree with you that insecurity occurs just as much in the general population as it does amongst the gym enthusiast. There is a billion dollar industry out there that sells dreams to every young boy and adult male alike - it’s called the supplement industry. And the enduring undeniable theme is to get “bigger” and be more manly Have you really thought this thru?[/quote]

I wasn’t aware I made a habit of not thinking things through.

There is also a billion dollar industry for music, haircare products, and designer jeans. People are really fucking vain and they have been since the beginning of time. Yet, for some strange reason, people can only note the vanity of bodybuilders openly with insult yet think this is socially acceptable.

Vanity is present in the skinny jeans these dorks are wearing on this site as they cut off their circulation and ability to breed.

Vanity is present in every jackass who actually wishes his name was “The Situation”.

It’s present in people who can’t afford gas but are driving Hummers to work.

It’s present in that girl who has the word “delicious” written across her ass in glitter and rhinestones.

Bodybuilders are not and never have been the gatekeepers to vanity. They simply wear their hard work literally on their sleeve at all times…while that girl eventually has to take her pants off.[/quote]

I think you have confused vanity with insecurity. A few points however:

Music is an art and has nothing to do with vanity or insecurity. Hair care products, jeans, etc. all sell tangible goods but do not sell dreams. You can try on jeans and know exactly what you’re receiving. The supplement industry sells dreams, often false hope. Do we need to examine the ads for various supplements? Frankly, the copy reads like penis enlargement. Vanity is fine. I probably maintain my size and have a reluctance to really cut down b/c of “vanity”. But that is not insecurity. Insecurity is feeling inadequate - and nothing ever fills that kind of void, leading to trying to fill it with more of whatever feeds your hole…“am I big enough”? Do I make enough money. Are my tits big enough? Granted driving a hummer may very well be a sign of insecurity or just stupid consumption, vanity is not insecurity. Final point; you are making this a “bodybuilder” issue when I’m posing the question to anyone that went to a gym to get “bigger”. Surely all pursuit of size is not bodybuilding any more than the guy that wants to bench 3 plates is a powerlifter I don’t think “bodybuilding” per se needs a defense as I am not indicting bodybuilding specifically.

EDIT:

In fact, in defense of “bodybuilding” as a sport or serious hobby, I’d no more take exception to someone wanting to get bigger than I would a baseball player taking batting practice. Surely you will admit that most of the guys at the gym in their quest to get hyooge are not competitive bodybuilders or even serious bodybuilding hobbyists.

A month or more back, you may recall I sent you a PM about arm growth since I’ve done no real direct arm work and was wondering if 20 was attainable without weight gain (something I don’t want at 265). That sir, was “vanity”, not “insecurity”. I know my arms are “big” and “big enough”. Wanting to possibly achieve 20 was nothing but pure unadulterated “juicy” on my backside let’s unleash some shock and awe in the summer vanity LOL.

CNSgenius · March 16, 2010, 1:25am

Growing big takes a very long time and sometimes you don’t even realize how big you have become so you want to be bigger, its like a bit inversed anorexia.

themumbler · March 16, 2010, 1:32am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]themumbler wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t get why this thread bothers people. If he was small, THEN it would bother me. He’s a big guy asking when big is “big enough” just to start a discussion.

I am NOT big enough in terms of muscularity. I am “big enough” in terms of body weight which is why I am dieting and why I am lighter right now than I have been in over two years.

This could actually be a decent discussion if people would quit trying to find fault with the OP for making the thread.[/quote]

What weight have you dieted down to, and how far to you plan on going? Also, how big do want to be in the end? I know you seem to be against setting an end goal, and I get that, just interested to here from someone your size, I’m guessing you’re pretty close to as big as you could get naturally.[/quote]

Holy thread hijack, Batman.[/quote]
fixed.
Ya, I guess it was a bit off topic. This thread’s going in a bunch of directions. Thought it kinda fit into the ‘how big?’ question. But now I’m totally off topic again…fml

brauny96 · March 16, 2010, 2:07am

I guess I would say I have more "strongorexia’ than “bigorexia”. I like where my weight is at (220) but now its time to strip away the fat and get to a lean 220. I want to be strong as hell at 220, I feel I am on the right track. I want to squat almost triple bodyweight raw at 220 (600).

Not to say I wouldnt be sad sittin at 250 and 12% BF. That would be sweet. Id have to have no neck, and a monster wide back for it to really be cool.

js385787 · March 16, 2010, 2:12am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

Why is it the people who have the least to show as far as progress made are the FIRST to critique other guys who are bigger than most?[/quote]

How do you know this is a fact? Are you suggesting that you know the size and progress of these people you speak of? I think you’re generalizing here.

waylanderxx · March 16, 2010, 3:09am

[quote]js385787 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

Why is it the people who have the least to show as far as progress made are the FIRST to critique other guys who are bigger than most?[/quote]

How do you know this is a fact? Are you suggesting that you know the size and progress of these people you speak of? I think you’re generalizing here. [/quote]

Dude, this is T-Nation. That’s a fact.

anonym · March 16, 2010, 4:09am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Hair care products, jeans, etc. all sell tangible goods but do not sell dreams. You can try on jeans and know exactly what you’re receiving. The supplement industry sells dreams, often false hope. Do we need to examine the ads for various supplements? Frankly, the copy reads like penis enlargement. Vanity is fine. I probably maintain my size and have a reluctance to really cut down b/c of “vanity”. But that is not insecurity. Insecurity is feeling inadequate - and nothing ever fills that kind of void, leading to trying to fill it with more of whatever feeds your hole…“am I big enough”? Do I make enough money. Are my tits big enough? Granted driving a hummer may very well be a sign of insecurity or just stupid consumption, vanity is not insecurity.[/quote]

You don’t believe that plenty of ads selling tangible goods are, at some level, aimed at the insecurities of the target audience by offering false hope?

The commercials of an awkward kid too nervous to talk to girls because of his acne? Buy our skin cream and find that confidence you are sorely lacking. Or the woman so self-conscious about her off-white smile that she refuses to laugh without covering her mouth during dates? Buy these strips and dazzle everyone with your smile.

If you don’t buy these jeans, you aren’t gonna fit in at school. If you are overweight, no one is gonna want to date you. Plenty of products that are advertised offer - on some level - more than just what comes in the box - they offer a “better” you. They represent the pursuit of a certain way of life that is obtainable if you are willing to shell out the money. What comes in the package is just a means to that end. The supplement industry is by no means alone in this.

Tangible goods don’t sell dreams? You mean that this Axe body spray I bought at Wal-Mart really ISN’T going to make women chase me down the street?

CNSgenius · March 16, 2010, 4:13am

But why would smaller and less strong people give advice, It is not logical. Maybe some people could be moderated to reduce the BS on the forum?

Professor_X · March 16, 2010, 4:42am

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Hair care products, jeans, etc. all sell tangible goods but do not sell dreams. You can try on jeans and know exactly what you’re receiving. The supplement industry sells dreams, often false hope. Do we need to examine the ads for various supplements? Frankly, the copy reads like penis enlargement. Vanity is fine. I probably maintain my size and have a reluctance to really cut down b/c of “vanity”. But that is not insecurity. Insecurity is feeling inadequate - and nothing ever fills that kind of void, leading to trying to fill it with more of whatever feeds your hole…“am I big enough”? Do I make enough money. Are my tits big enough? Granted driving a hummer may very well be a sign of insecurity or just stupid consumption, vanity is not insecurity.[/quote]

You don’t believe that plenty of ads selling tangible goods are, at some level, aimed at the insecurities of the target audience by offering false hope?

The commercials of an awkward kid too nervous to talk to girls because of his acne? Buy our skin cream and find that confidence you are sorely lacking. Or the woman so self-conscious about her off-white smile that she refuses to laugh without covering her mouth during dates? Buy these strips and dazzle everyone with your smile.

If you don’t buy these jeans, you aren’t gonna fit in at school. If you are overweight, no one is gonna want to date you. Plenty of products that are advertised offer - on some level - more than just what comes in the box - they offer a “better” you. They represent the pursuit of a certain way of life that is obtainable if you are willing to shell out the money. What comes in the package is just a means to that end. The supplement industry is by no means alone in this.

Tangible goods don’t sell dreams? You mean that this Axe body spray I bought at Wal-Mart really ISN’T going to make women chase me down the street?[/quote]

Damn…when was the last time we agreed on something?

That is what business is built on, the insecurities of the general public. This is NOT only related to the supplement industry at all.

That new car commercial that makes it seem like if you buy this car, your life will be filled with carloads full of friends, road trips, and constant ass?

Hell, beer commercials alone make it seem like there’s a party filled with double D breasts in every bottle.

Also, I was speaking of vanity because of the negative remarks some people feel obligated to make publicly when saying the same in earshot of the person wouldn’t be tolerated in any other pursuit. That woman in the catsuit would blow a fuse if, as she walked by, someone made a comment of, “That’s just grotesque…why would someone want to look like that?”…when I am positive Ronnie Coleman got that constantly. In fact, if he were to say something in response to it, it would simply make him look worse.

Professor_X · March 16, 2010, 4:47am

[quote]js385787 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]its_just_me wrote:

Why is it the people who have the least to show as far as progress made are the FIRST to critique other guys who are bigger than most?[/quote]

How do you know this is a fact? Are you suggesting that you know the size and progress of these people you speak of? I think you’re generalizing here. [/quote]

Are you serious with this? There are very few people on this site who look extremely developed. Waylander is one of them. I am willing to bet there may be only 3 people who responded in this thread who are actually more “muscular” (not just in terms of body weight) than the Op…even though several tried to call him out.

Hell, when threads like that 18" arm thread were started, the response by some was to actually question why.

The majority of the loudest people here who act like everyone is genetically limited look like little kids in terms of development.

Shit, some of the regulars here don’t even fucking lift weights!

This is the only thread I can think of on this board with those topic where the OP actually had some real size on him. Most of the people here are all talk. That is WHY they don’t post pictures even with their face cropped out.

Professor_X · March 16, 2010, 4:50am

[quote]CNSgenius wrote:
But why would smaller and less strong people give advice, It is not logical. Maybe some people could be moderated to reduce the BS on the forum?[/quote]

LOL. There would be 95% less bullshit if the people typing responses to questions actually looked like they knew what they were talking about.

Most of the crap you read in the bodybuilding forum is regurgitated crap from people who are no bigger than the guys asking the question.

You still have people here who act like getting or being big takes a backseat to what some skinny dude read somewhere with no application.

js385787 · March 16, 2010, 7:05am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Are you serious with this? There are very few people on this site who look extremely developed. Waylander is one of them. I am willing to bet there may be only 3 people who responded in this thread who are actually more “muscular” (not just in terms of body weight) than the Op…even though several tried to call him out.

Hell, when threads like that 18" arm thread were started, the response by some was to actually question why.

The majority of the loudest people here who act like everyone is genetically limited look like little kids in terms of development.

Shit, some of the regulars here don’t even fucking lift weights!

This is the only thread I can think of on this board with those topic where the OP actually had some real size on him. Most of the people here are all talk. That is WHY they don’t post pictures even with their face cropped out.[/quote]

Yes I am, I fail to see how you could ascertain this since a lot of people don’t have much detail to their profiles from what I can see, so I think it is difficult to draw such conclusions based on speculation.

If you think the only reason people don’t post pics on this site is b/c they are all twigs, I would argue you are wrong. In fact I could argue the opposite. An accomplished person makes for a confident person. If you’re confident with yourself you’re not going to require kudos or validation from strangers, and as such will be less compelled to post pictures on a public site. After all what would you gain from it? In contrast someone who needs an ego stroke would be more compelled to do such a thing I think. Case in point is the hot or not rmp forum here. The majority of people I guess who post pics there aren’t all that impressive, why do they then? I think they are just fishing for compliments.

I guess you could say posting pics gives you credibility, but does that really matter? I don’t think so. If people can read for themselves, then they ought to be able to assess the quality of information they are reading. The source really shouldn’t matter actually.

And moreover some people really aren’t that invested in this site to become a part of the “community” befriending people, filling out profile details, posting pictures, etc. So while you may be correct in your assessment of some individuals here, you really can;t make blanket statements like [quote]Professor X wrote: Most of the people here are all talk. That is WHY they don’t post pictures even with their face cropped out.[/quote]

Professor_X · March 16, 2010, 7:07am

[quote]js385787 wrote:
I guess you could say posting pics gives you credibility, but does that really matter? [/quote]

Yes, it does. Why should we have to wade through mounds of bullshit to reach any level of personal experience when people are literally asking how to do this?

[quote]

I don’t think so. If people can read for themselves, then they ought to be able to assess the quality of information they are reading. The source really shouldn’t matter actually. [/quote]

Gee, most of these people seem to be beginners. If you think most of these people are really muscular, really strong and really dedicated…I’m laughing at you. I’ve been here since 2000. You pick up on things especially since many of these people have been on this site for over 5 years.

But then, I’ll wait as you prove me wrong. Please help me find all of the really dedicated weight lifters who also know what they are talking about. We could use them in the T-Cell.

js385787 · March 16, 2010, 7:28am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]js385787 wrote:
I guess you could say posting pics gives you credibility, but does that really matter? [/quote]

Yes, it does. Why should we have to wade through mounds of bullshit to reach any level of personal experience when people are literally asking how to do this?

[quote]

I don’t think so. If people can read for themselves, then they ought to be able to assess the quality of information they are reading. The source really shouldn’t matter actually. [/quote]

Gee, most of these people seem to be beginners. If you think most of these people are really muscular, really strong and really dedicated…I’m laughing at you. I’ve been here since 2000. You pick up on things especially since many of these people have been on this site for over 5 years.

But then, I’ll wait as you prove me wrong. Please help me find all of the really dedicated weight lifters who also know what they are talking about. We could use them in the T-Cell.[/quote]

I think you missed my point here. In regards to posting pics for credibility. NOt everyone with something worthwhile to say needs to be big or developed. You could have some dude who has worked out for 20 years and weights 180. The value in his experience could lie in how not to do things. Sometimes failures are the best lessons to learn from.

Also where did I say I thought everyone was muscular, strong and dedicated? I’m saying that as a reader of anything, it’s your job to assess the quality of information you’re reading. Shouldn’t have to spoon feed people info even if they are a beginner. There’s a vast amount of information here, if you can’t sift through it, assess it, and learn from it, then you’re never going to learn anything anyway and probably won’t have the dedication to lift weights since you’re too lazy to even perform any critical thinking on your own.

TheBodyGuard · March 16, 2010, 12:40pm

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Hair care products, jeans, etc. all sell tangible goods but do not sell dreams. You can try on jeans and know exactly what you’re receiving. The supplement industry sells dreams, often false hope. Do we need to examine the ads for various supplements? Frankly, the copy reads like penis enlargement. Vanity is fine. I probably maintain my size and have a reluctance to really cut down b/c of “vanity”. But that is not insecurity. Insecurity is feeling inadequate - and nothing ever fills that kind of void, leading to trying to fill it with more of whatever feeds your hole…“am I big enough”? Do I make enough money. Are my tits big enough? Granted driving a hummer may very well be a sign of insecurity or just stupid consumption, vanity is not insecurity.[/quote]

You don’t believe that plenty of ads selling tangible goods are, at some level, aimed at the insecurities of the target audience by offering false hope?

The commercials of an awkward kid too nervous to talk to girls because of his acne? Buy our skin cream and find that confidence you are sorely lacking. Or the woman so self-conscious about her off-white smile that she refuses to laugh without covering her mouth during dates? Buy these strips and dazzle everyone with your smile.

If you don’t buy these jeans, you aren’t gonna fit in at school. If you are overweight, no one is gonna want to date you. Plenty of products that are advertised offer - on some level - more than just what comes in the box - they offer a “better” you. They represent the pursuit of a certain way of life that is obtainable if you are willing to shell out the money. What comes in the package is just a means to that end. The supplement industry is by no means alone in this.

Tangible goods don’t sell dreams? You mean that this Axe body spray I bought at Wal-Mart really ISN’T going to make women chase me down the street?[/quote]

I knew that was coming. Yes, advertising does try to exploit desires and insecurities, but not to the extreme that supplements do. Like I said, read most supplement ads and with very little tweaking, you could be reading an ad for male penis enhancement. Nothing else that I can think of even comes close. The implied analogy between sports supplementation and penis enlargement is a strong one.

TheBodyGuard · March 16, 2010, 12:53pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Damn…when was the last time we agreed on something?

[/quote]

LOL. It’s not that bad. It’s not as if I don’t see your point. We are disagreeing on fine points here - and the internet does not exactly allow a full hearing of our respective points. But as I have just replied to someone else above, nowhere in advertising or the slae of goods is the implied analogy between male penis enhancement and sports supplementation so strong and overt. C’mon X, think about it.

You’re busy defending the prejudice that all big guys, myself included, suffer. Okay, I get “that”. We’re not all dumb. We’re not all vain (I am though). We’re not all insecure. But every damn protein powder and the like has a dream of masculinity to sell. And for the average guy, it’s a pipe dream and if it weren’t - just as in male enhancement, we’d all be running around with amazing diamond cutting 10" penises and everyone here would be a ripped 275 lbs.

Nowhere else in the marketing world is the analogy between male enhancement and physique enhancement so strong. Now given that strong analogy, you don’t think there’s a bit of a built in insecurity? Among the general male population? And then, especially among the male gym going population - you know, the ones that actually decided to try to do something about it?

X, I can walk into any commercial gym and see insecurity run amock at peak hours (in fairness, women too). I walk into my office building in the morning and I cannot detect the same overt insecurity. There is no single product you could sell my office building right now that would be as successful as sports supplementation is among the gym population.

And if sports supplementation isn’t a pipe dream, then why I am 265 - 270 and strong without any supplementation? Do you owe your own fine development to supplementation? Or do you owe it to your parents and hard work?

TheBodyGuard · March 16, 2010, 1:01pm