[quote]Professor X wrote:
This could actually be a decent discussion if people would quit trying to find fault with the OP for making the thread.[/quote]
come on man…how the fuck can anyone answer that question for anyone but themselves? They can’t, so it amounts to attention whoring.
[quote]NeelyDan wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
This could actually be a decent discussion if people would quit trying to find fault with the OP for making the thread.[/quote]
come on man…how the fuck can anyone answer that question for anyone but themselves? They can’t, so it amounts to attention whoring.[/quote]
Some would argue that simply looking like the OP is “attention whoring”. That doesn’t make the idea correct.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Some would argue that simply looking like the OP is “attention whoring”. That doesn’t make the idea correct.[/quote]
I’d ask, incredulously, “on a bodybuilding forum?”, but then we’d come full circle.
Well…it’s not about the OP…it was just a general thought I had about MOST people who ask these types of questions. The OP is pretty damn well developed.
I just don’t like the thought of limits. Whether you’re 150lbs or 250lbs I think just thinking about limiting yourself will limit you. Have a goal, break a goal, have another goal.
Of course we could drag this dude out and poop on it again…
www.weightrainer.net/maximum_bodypred.html
At some point there is a limit to the amount of muscle a certain bone structure can carry, be it natural or otherwise. Do we really know that limit? Probably not. I think focusing on these limits becomes extremely counterproductive, especially for a natural, the closer you get to ‘being big’ as increased in size and strength get smaller and smaller and harder to achieve. Hell, even on AAS it’s not a certainty you’ll even respond well or gain anything.
Well here’s something that may actually add to the discussion…
“Big Enough” is the maximum amount of fatness you are willing to live with. You’re not going to be able to gain a measurable amount of muscle size (outside of your first 6-12mos of trainig) without also gaining a measurable amount of body fat. This stops A LOT of people. BBing is a very narcissistic pursuit. We want bigger and better bodies. The catch is that the process to get that body can get ugly. So what are you willing to live with?
Personally…I’ve always been a lean guy, around 8% for the majority of the 15+ years I was a distance runner. It took me doing a show and going through an amazing post-contest rebound to find out how much fat I’m willing to live with. I put on close to 30lbs in two months (20 the first month), regaining my lost lean mass AND quite a bit of fat. Got up to 18%. That’s about as much as I’m willing to live with. Of course that’s a LIMIT which may end up limiting my progress in the future. But, this phase of my life is more or less a “bonus round” as far as physical achievments are concerned so I’m more happy with the experience than the end result.
Alan
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Well…it’s not about the OP…it was just a general thought I had about MOST people who ask these types of questions. The OP is pretty damn well developed.
I just don’t like the thought of limits.[/quote]
Neither do I but I doubt that is what the OP was getting at. He is clearly not stopping his progress. It was a basic question that many of us ask ourselves…because let’s face it, our goals are progressive. I never in a million years would have thought when I was 16 that I would be the size I am now. That wasn’t even the original goal. I just avoided believing that I couldn’t make more progress…because believing we can do it is the first and last step to actually getting it done.
I’m going to go ahead and agree with Stu on this one. For me, this is about the journey and making progress rather than achieving a certain bodyweight or physique. I certainly have goals, but it is human nature to always strive for more. The line between that and bigorexia can be a fine one because IMO the difference is in what’s going on in your head. It is good and healthy to be a little bit unsatisfied with where you are on a personal level–it gives you that spark and hunger to persevere and not be complacent. But once you are saying things like “oh I would only be happy if I hit xx% BF or xxx bodyweight”; where you literally can’t be happy with who you are and what you see in the mirror, then that is crossing into dysfunction and bigorexia.
This is not a clinical opinion just my personal thoughts on the issue. I don’t know if this disclaimer is necessary, but I’m not trying to be the board’s psychiatrist.
I tend to agree with Prof. X on this one. Whilst insecurities are certainly the impetus for many a man to lift in search of ‘bigness’ there are those of us who simply view it as yet another challenge to be overcome. Accomplished people tend to be that way, possessive of an innate drive for betterment not so much insecurity. The desire for success is not understood by those who aren’t willing to sacrifice for it. And make no mistake, success demands sacrifice.
I myself have been accused of ‘growing armour’, or asked “What are you afraid of, to need those big muscles?” To whit, I have little if any time for this. I simply go about my day and ignore the queries, no answer I could provide would be acceptable.
As to the OP’s question: There is no “Too BIG!” If you measure success in bodybuilding via muscularity and size, then how can you impose an arbitrary limit? 200lbs? 250lbs? 300lbs? A few years ago I was perfectly content at 240lbs any heavier and I felt sluggish, that is till I hit 250. I was fine there till I hit 260, and so it goes. Now I feel ‘good’ at 280+ is that too big? Perhaps for some, but it certainly works for me.
Personal tastes and tolerances will likely be the determinants here, rather than some hard number.
M.
Off topic, sort of. OP can you post a pic of your legs? Before I decide whats big enough i’d like to see the quads. Your upper body looks great (no homo), but I want to see if your legs are up to par.
The OP in my opinion is not asking a question as such, but rather wanting people to relate. And I do completely. It’s a great topic.
Those who are trying to give a direct answer are missing the point (and are acting as if the OP is clueless).
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
The OP in my opinion is not asking a question as such, but rather wanting people to relate. And I do completely. It’s a great topic.
Those who are trying to give a direct answer are missing the point (and are acting as if the OP is clueless).[/quote]
Agreed. Along with that, people asking for leg shots or giving out specific weights when they have no pictures of their own development are jokes at this point.
Why is it the people who have the least to show as far as progress made are the FIRST to critique other guys who are bigger than most?
I just wanted to chime in and say that OP has the best damn 6’ 205 pound physique I’ve ever seen, based on the avatar of course. Like waylander said, much hate!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I was about to write that I was wondering if there is an inherent fragility to the male ego that make some wonder about size and then I stopped myself because I know the answer. Yes, there is. …Why are you worried if you’re “big enough”? Me thinks the male ego is indeed very fragile.[/quote]
Here is what can only be interpreted as you looking down on those attempting to gain muscle mass.
And that part you wrote about “those that protest the loudest”…wow, I have to say, what a mature and well thought out argument supporting your position (sarcasm)
Obviously you can’t understand the pursuit of muscle mass, so why try to discuss it? Just to mock those that follow this pursuit?
How about you? You’re pursuing strength, maybe you’re just too insecure, so you need to be the strongest guy in the room to validate yourself? If pursuit of size is indicative of insecurity, why not pusuit of strength? It works both ways[/quote]
And by the way, pursuit of size is not necessarily indicative of insecurity - that’s for each to determine on their own, if they dare - that’s why I tossed that grenade out there. But if you think that every man that toils away in the gym is a secure rock of a man well then I have some little blue pills to sell you that are GUARANTEED to add inches to your pecker. You sound as if you believe every bimbo with a breast implant “did it for herself” or, “so my clothes fit better”. LOL.[/quote]
That isn’t the point. What I hear OFTEN is that the only reason someone gets really big is because of being insecure. This usually comes from people who are out of shape completely, not very attractive and not very successful. I am not sure how the hell bodybuilding ever gained the notoriety for people to question the insecurities of all people involved the way they do. No one ever says, “The only reason that guy became a brain surgeon is because he was insecure about his intelligence”.
I’m big enough to hear all of this shit, good and bad. You get the people congratulating and coming up to speak to you just because of your size as well as the snide remarks every once in a while.
I do not lift weights to fit in. I do not lift because of some deep rooted insecurities. If anything, I doubt I am doing worse in life “generally speaking” then any of the people being so judgmental about how I look.
So the question is, why ON A BODYBUILDING FORUM would someone even question why we get big? Why relate that to a negative?
You can find insecure people in ALL FIELDS yet bodybuilding seems to be the only one where people ASSUME that every guy with 20" arms has a mental problem.
Does it scare people to find out that big guy is very secure, very intelligent and very accomplished? Does their head explode if they find this out?[/quote]
Well, I think you are smart enough to know I didn’t make any such sweeping assertion. And I also know you’re perceptive enough and have been in enough gyms to know they have a disproportionate share of insecure men as opposed to the rest of the population. If you deny this, you’re in denial 
By the way, insecurity drives many men in many different directions that results in accomplishment or success. Insecurity does not equal failure. To deny that much of the male population engages in a dick measuring contest in one way or another (in the office, at the bar, club, gym, etc.), is to deny reality. To deny it occurs in a gym is to deny the obvious. If one is truly secure, and you do not compete in bodybuilding, why would one ponder if they’re ever “big enough”?
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I just wanted to chime in and say that OP has the best damn 6’ 205 pound physique I’ve ever seen, based on the avatar of course. Like waylander said, much hate![/quote]
Where the hell is the hate? I think he looks great.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
[quote]Eric 2.0 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
I was about to write that I was wondering if there is an inherent fragility to the male ego that make some wonder about size and then I stopped myself because I know the answer. Yes, there is. …Why are you worried if you’re “big enough”? Me thinks the male ego is indeed very fragile.[/quote]
Here is what can only be interpreted as you looking down on those attempting to gain muscle mass.
And that part you wrote about “those that protest the loudest”…wow, I have to say, what a mature and well thought out argument supporting your position (sarcasm)
Obviously you can’t understand the pursuit of muscle mass, so why try to discuss it? Just to mock those that follow this pursuit?
How about you? You’re pursuing strength, maybe you’re just too insecure, so you need to be the strongest guy in the room to validate yourself? If pursuit of size is indicative of insecurity, why not pusuit of strength? It works both ways[/quote]
And by the way, pursuit of size is not necessarily indicative of insecurity - that’s for each to determine on their own, if they dare - that’s why I tossed that grenade out there. But if you think that every man that toils away in the gym is a secure rock of a man well then I have some little blue pills to sell you that are GUARANTEED to add inches to your pecker. You sound as if you believe every bimbo with a breast implant “did it for herself” or, “so my clothes fit better”. LOL.[/quote]
That isn’t the point. What I hear OFTEN is that the only reason someone gets really big is because of being insecure. This usually comes from people who are out of shape completely, not very attractive and not very successful. I am not sure how the hell bodybuilding ever gained the notoriety for people to question the insecurities of all people involved the way they do. No one ever says, “The only reason that guy became a brain surgeon is because he was insecure about his intelligence”.
I’m big enough to hear all of this shit, good and bad. You get the people congratulating and coming up to speak to you just because of your size as well as the snide remarks every once in a while.
I do not lift weights to fit in. I do not lift because of some deep rooted insecurities. If anything, I doubt I am doing worse in life “generally speaking” then any of the people being so judgmental about how I look.
So the question is, why ON A BODYBUILDING FORUM would someone even question why we get big? Why relate that to a negative?
You can find insecure people in ALL FIELDS yet bodybuilding seems to be the only one where people ASSUME that every guy with 20" arms has a mental problem.
Does it scare people to find out that big guy is very secure, very intelligent and very accomplished? Does their head explode if they find this out?[/quote]
Well, I think you are smart enough to know I didn’t make any such sweeping assertion. And I also know you’re perceptive enough and have been in enough gyms to know they have a disproportionate share of insecure men as opposed to the rest of the population. If you deny this, you’re in denial By the way, insecurity drives many men in many different directions that results in accomplishment or success. Insecurity does not equal failure. To deny that much of the male population engages in a dick measuring contest in one way or another (in the office, at the bar, club, gym, etc.), is to deny reality. To deny it occurs in a gym is to deny the obvious. If one is truly secure, and you do not compete in bodybuilding, why would one ponder if they’re ever “big enough”?[/quote]
I don’t deny that there are “insecure people” in gyms at all. I am stating blatantly that there are no more in gyms than there are in banks, hospitals, law firms or anywhere else…which causes the act of pointing out the guys in gyms to say more about the pointer than the guys themselves.
Once again, the error here occurs when people hear this and go on to claim every guy who is way bigger than average must be “overcompensating” for something simply because they have big arms. I am also obviously not talking about the average 200lbs gym goer here.
Why do people try to play crap-psychologist when it comes to bodybuilders?
I have heard all of the following at one time or another usually in reference to some guy walking by:
“All bodybuilders are gay”
“He must be overcompensating for something to get that big”
“I bet he has a small dick”
People feel some deep need to degrade bodybuilders for some reason…and they don’t hold back. You get obese people calling bodybuilders “grotesque”.
I had a really fat math teacher in high school who, in a conversation we were having between a group of us, stated that bodybuilders looked like raisins with all of those “crinkles” (referring to defined muscles). Apparently, she had convinced herself that her rotund smooth physique was normal and that there was something wrong with people who could actually see their own muscles.
The bottom line is this…why the hell would someone bring up “insecurity” here but not in all of those other places?
Do you feel a need to discuss the insecurity of your barber? Why not?
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I just wanted to chime in and say that OP has the best damn 6’ 205 pound physique I’ve ever seen, based on the avatar of course. Like waylander said, much hate![/quote]
Where the hell is the hate? I think he looks great.
[/quote]
The hate is in the people asking for leg shots when they have no pics of their own…as if his accomplishment isn’t good enough and they are looking for the error. Way too many in this thread tried to turn this back on the OP for no reason when the truth is, we should be happy another 120lbs kid didn’t start another thread about how girls are saying their 14" arms are huge.
I definitly agree with the people that said when you feel comfortable and confident with your size. Im 6’7 and weigh 257 and will continue to gain mass until i weigh 315. Unless you compete in body building or weight lifting I would say there is a point thats “enough”. I just hate looking thin which is why im gaining weight but when im totally filled out, whatever that weight might be i will just maintain. Im going into business and possibly law school and just want to look large and in charge haha. Controversial Statement - I virtually see no value in individuals that are extremely strong but dont look strong or filled out at all. I see guys in my gym at my university (which has 53000 kids) that bench in the 400’s but dont look that filled out and if you saw them outside the workout area you wouldnt even guess they workout. That sucks, I personally would much rather be a guy like stated earlier 6’0 255 or around that who is large for there size regardless of the weight i lift. When i get to weighing 315 or 330 whatever my finish weight will be I will just give guys the thumbs up that are stronger but will never envy them.
First of all, I’m not hating at all. I’m just hoping that the pic in his avatar is a bad shot of his legs. I’m hoping he is right when he says his quads are pretty big. For me, too big is when its uncomfortable to walk because your legs are constantly rubbing together. Too big is when its you can barely wipe your ass, and can barely tie your shoes. I think this guy is pretty damn big, and give him much props. Also judging by the guys physique (from what we can see) he was probably an ecto and this makes his accomplishments that much greater.
BTW X, how is the overhang coming? Any of the tips help at all?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
That isn’t the point. What I hear OFTEN is that the only reason someone gets really big is because of being insecure. This usually comes from people who are out of shape completely, not very attractive and not very successful. I am not sure how the hell bodybuilding ever gained the notoriety for people to question the insecurities of all people involved the way they do. No one ever says, “The only reason that guy became a brain surgeon is because he was insecure about his intelligence”.
I’m big enough to hear all of this shit, good and bad. You get the people congratulating and coming up to speak to you just because of your size as well as the snide remarks every once in a while.
I do not lift weights to fit in. I do not lift because of some deep rooted insecurities. If anything, I doubt I am doing worse in life “generally speaking” then any of the people being so judgmental about how I look.
So the question is, why ON A BODYBUILDING FORUM would someone even question why we get big? Why relate that to a negative?
You can find insecure people in ALL FIELDS yet bodybuilding seems to be the only one where people ASSUME that every guy with 20" arms has a mental problem.
Does it scare people to find out that big guy is very secure, very intelligent and very accomplished? Does their head explode if they find this out?[/quote]
Well, I think you are smart enough to know I didn’t make any such sweeping assertion. And I also know you’re perceptive enough and have been in enough gyms to know they have a disproportionate share of insecure men as opposed to the rest of the population. If you deny this, you’re in denial By the way, insecurity drives many men in many different directions that results in accomplishment or success. Insecurity does not equal failure. To deny that much of the male population engages in a dick measuring contest in one way or another (in the office, at the bar, club, gym, etc.), is to deny reality. To deny it occurs in a gym is to deny the obvious. If one is truly secure, and you do not compete in bodybuilding, why would one ponder if they’re ever “big enough”?[/quote]
I don’t deny that there are “insecure people” in gyms at all. I am stating blatantly that there are no more in gyms than there are in banks, hospitals, law firms or anywhere else…which causes the act of pointing out the guys in gyms to say more about the pointer than the guys themselves.
Once again, the error here occurs when people hear this and go on to claim every guy who is way bigger than average must be “overcompensating” for something simply because they have big arms. I am also obviously not talking about the average 200lbs gym goer here.
Why do people try to play crap-psychologist when it comes to bodybuilders?
I have heard all of the following at one time or another usually in reference to some guy walking by:
“All bodybuilders are gay”
“He must be overcompensating for something to get that big”
“I bet he has a small dick”
People feel some deep need to degrade bodybuilders for some reason…and they don’t hold back. You get obese people calling bodybuilders “grotesque”.
I had a really fat math teacher in high school who, in a conversation we were having between a group of us, stated that bodybuilders looked like raisins with all of those “crinkles” (referring to defined muscles). Apparently, she had convinced herself that her rotund smooth physique was normal and that there was something wrong with people who could actually see their own muscles.
The bottom line is this…why the hell would someone bring up “insecurity” here but not in all of those other places?
Do you feel a need to discuss the insecurity of your barber? Why not?
[/quote]
You’re being pretty sensitive to the prejudice you describe and that we all suffer. I’ve shrugged it off long ago and frankly, I’m barely aware of it anymore. Like it or not, we are all judged by our individual covers by those that don’t know us. I used to feel like a big tit blond but soon came to realize that if not my physique, they would make some other superficial judgment. Those that know me, know my mind is stronger than my body, that I feed my intellect voraciously and I’m a pretty good guy.
I don’t care about a stranger or casual stranger’s “read” on me any longer. I decided I couldn’t sweat it any longer, or give it any thought - it’s beyond my control. However, to retort your last point, if my barber was a good barber, and he continually sought my input about his skills, even though to any reasonable person said barber has demonstrated a high or acceptable level of competency, my answer is yes, I’d question his security. “Am I big enough” screams of insecurity to me. That’s not a direct shot at the OP, for I do not know the emotional context of his question. He may be very well posing a thoughtful and introspective, “when is enough enough” and maybe wondering some of the same things I do.
I also disagree with you that insecurity occurs just as much in the general population as it does amongst the gym enthusiast. There is a billion dollar industry out there that sells dreams to every young boy and adult male alike - it’s called the supplement industry. And the enduring undeniable theme is to get “bigger” and be more manly Have you really thought this thru?
And by the way X, there is not a billion dollar industry dedicated to selling dreams to barbers…there’s barber school and nothing else If there were not an insecurity to exploit, it wouldn’t be so lucrative. Look no further than male enhancement for confirmation. Getting big to some is a legit pursuit. All I’m saying is for many it’s just another form of “male enhancement”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t get why this thread bothers people. If he was small, THEN it would bother me. He’s a big guy asking when big is “big enough” just to start a discussion.
I am NOT big enough in terms of muscularity. I am “big enough” in terms of body weight which is why I am dieting and why I am lighter right now than I have been in over two years.
This could actually be a decent discussion if people would quit trying to find fault with the OP for making the thread.[/quote]
What weight have you dieted down to, and how far to you plan on going? Also, how big do want to be in the end? I know you seem to be against setting an end goal, and I get that, just interested to here from someone your size, I’m guessing you’re pretty close to as big as you could get naturally.