BTW, not to derail this thread, but how badass is Panora!
But seriously… heavy doubles and triples on RE day? And bench is usual trained twice a week on westside right? That seems like a LOT of work. Wouldn’t it just be better to do all of your heavy work on your ME day, and the other day give your CNS a break by doing speed work and lighter repetition work?
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
But seriously… heavy doubles and triples on RE day? And bench is usual trained twice a week on westside right? That seems like a LOT of work. Wouldn’t it just be better to do all of your heavy work on your ME day, and the other day give your CNS a break by doing speed work and lighter repetition work?[/quote]
I’ve been saying this for a little while now and have been chastised as not knowing what I’m talking about, but the training has changed.
The model that everyone has come to accept was a model they were working from prior to all the gear advancements. It’s now more important to train in gear, all the time. The guys that are best in the gear win the meets, it’s that simple.
As far as recovery, the big thing that has changed is the use of peptide drugs. What once was a gram of Test and a few Dbols has changed to Insulin, HGH, IGF-1, MGF, Test, orals, etc. They’re recovering better now and can handle more than ever.
IMO, the workouts that I see are basically ME all the time. It’s Louie’s opinion that the lifter will adapt eventually, if not, the lifter will not make it. This is what it takes to be a top guy right now.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Wouldn’t heavy doubles be covered under the max effort method tho??? Since they’re usually done in the 1-3 rep range.
No, the Repeated Effort is different than the Max Effort. It’s typically done on speed days and they work up to heavy, geared doubles on squat and bench, singles on deadlift. These aren’t max effort however but they’re pretty damn close. Some would classify the Repeated Effort as a way of labeling geared accessory work done right after speed work.
You should read more and talk less
Modified Repetition Method Parameters.
Load (Intensity) 60-80%
of Exercises All supplementary and accessory lifts
Sets/Reps 3-8/6-15
Rest Interval 1-3min
Frequency/Week All Workouts
Weeks/Exercise 1-5
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Training-bp.htm
By Jim Wendler
Wow, I should read more and talk less…
You should lift more and shut up!
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4dTf8GXC-Q
[/quote]
hahaha, that is the best example of pwnage seen here in a while
Thanks for the video, and while I’ve only been to westside once, I will agree, there are many guys who say that what Louie does/talks about in videos from 5, 10, 15 years ago is simply not what they are still doing
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Dominator wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Wouldn’t heavy doubles be covered under the max effort method tho??? Since they’re usually done in the 1-3 rep range.
No, the Repeated Effort is different than the Max Effort. It’s typically done on speed days and they work up to heavy, geared doubles on squat and bench, singles on deadlift. These aren’t max effort however but they’re pretty damn close. Some would classify the Repeated Effort as a way of labeling geared accessory work done right after speed work.
You should read more and talk less
Modified Repetition Method Parameters.
Load (Intensity) 60-80%
of Exercises All supplementary and accessory lifts
Sets/Reps 3-8/6-15
Rest Interval 1-3min
Frequency/Week All Workouts
Weeks/Exercise 1-5
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Training-bp.htm
By Jim Wendler
Wow, I should read more and talk less…
You should lift more and shut up!
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4dTf8GXC-Q
hahaha, that is the best example of pwnage seen here in a while
Thanks for the video, and while I’ve only been to westside once, I will agree, there are many guys who say that what Louie does/talks about in videos from 5, 10, 15 years ago is simply not what they are still doing[/quote]
Frickin uber pwnage.
I knew it would come eventually, but I wasn’t sure how!
[quote]Hanley wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Dominator wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Wouldn’t heavy doubles be covered under the max effort method tho??? Since they’re usually done in the 1-3 rep range.
No, the Repeated Effort is different than the Max Effort. It’s typically done on speed days and they work up to heavy, geared doubles on squat and bench, singles on deadlift. These aren’t max effort however but they’re pretty damn close. Some would classify the Repeated Effort as a way of labeling geared accessory work done right after speed work.
You should read more and talk less
Modified Repetition Method Parameters.
Load (Intensity) 60-80%
of Exercises All supplementary and accessory lifts
Sets/Reps 3-8/6-15
Rest Interval 1-3min
Frequency/Week All Workouts
Weeks/Exercise 1-5
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Training-bp.htm
By Jim Wendler
Wow, I should read more and talk less…
You should lift more and shut up!
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4dTf8GXC-Q
[/quote]
I must admit, that is a sweet video.
good show.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Dominator wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Wouldn’t heavy doubles be covered under the max effort method tho??? Since they’re usually done in the 1-3 rep range.
No, the Repeated Effort is different than the Max Effort. It’s typically done on speed days and they work up to heavy, geared doubles on squat and bench, singles on deadlift. These aren’t max effort however but they’re pretty damn close. Some would classify the Repeated Effort as a way of labeling geared accessory work done right after speed work.
You should read more and talk less
Modified Repetition Method Parameters.
Load (Intensity) 60-80%
of Exercises All supplementary and accessory lifts
Sets/Reps 3-8/6-15
Rest Interval 1-3min
Frequency/Week All Workouts
Weeks/Exercise 1-5
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Training-bp.htm
By Jim Wendler
Wow, I should read more and talk less…
You should lift more and shut up!
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4dTf8GXC-Q
I must admit, that is a sweet video.
good show.[/quote]
Well played good sir.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Hanley wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Dominator wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
Dominator wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Wouldn’t heavy doubles be covered under the max effort method tho??? Since they’re usually done in the 1-3 rep range.
No, the Repeated Effort is different than the Max Effort. It’s typically done on speed days and they work up to heavy, geared doubles on squat and bench, singles on deadlift. These aren’t max effort however but they’re pretty damn close. Some would classify the Repeated Effort as a way of labeling geared accessory work done right after speed work.
You should read more and talk less
Modified Repetition Method Parameters.
Load (Intensity) 60-80%
of Exercises All supplementary and accessory lifts
Sets/Reps 3-8/6-15
Rest Interval 1-3min
Frequency/Week All Workouts
Weeks/Exercise 1-5
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Training-bp.htm
By Jim Wendler
Wow, I should read more and talk less…
You should lift more and shut up!
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4dTf8GXC-Q
I must admit, that is a sweet video.
good show.
Well played good sir.
[/quote]
Agreed, at least he takes it like a man.
My sense of irony is also immensely pleased that one of the most useless threads in the history of the strength sports subforum turned out to have an interesting Westside video - dare i say it, the most up-to-date one currently floating around - AFTER I called for the thread to be ended.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
My sense of irony is also immensely pleased that one of the most useless threads in the history of the strength sports subforum turned out to have an interesting Westside video - dare i say it, the most up-to-date one currently floating around - AFTER I called for the thread to be ended.[/quote]
What was useless with this thread?
Someone asked a legit question and received what appeared to be two answers. One answer was the “common” answer to the question, and the other was basically a right answer that nobody’s ever heard of apparently except for me.
I think the problem with this forum is that there’s too many people that think they know because they read a few threads or a couple articles on EFS. That doesn’t qualify you to answer anything! I’m not saying you need have an Elite total or train at Westside to have a take, but if you’re not around those type of gyms or see and talk to those guys at meets, the reality is that you probably are getting your info second hand at best case and that probably won’t qualify you as “knowing.”
[quote]Dominator wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
My sense of irony is also immensely pleased that one of the most useless threads in the history of the strength sports subforum turned out to have an interesting Westside video - dare i say it, the most up-to-date one currently floating around - AFTER I called for the thread to be ended.
What was useless with this thread?
Someone asked a legit question and received what appeared to be two answers. One answer was the “common” answer to the question, and the other was basically a right answer that nobody’s ever heard of apparently except for me.
I think the problem with this forum is that there’s too many people that think they know because they read a few threads or a couple articles on EFS. That doesn’t qualify you to answer anything! I’m not saying you need have an Elite total or train at Westside to have a take, but if you’re not around those type of gyms or see and talk to those guys at meets, the reality is that you probably are getting your info second hand at best case and that probably won’t qualify you as “knowing.”[/quote]
I didnt see too much disagreement until you posted the alternative definition … we had almost an entire page of people posting the same thing over and over and over again just to indulge in the internet equivalent to “talking just to hear yourself”
[quote]Dominator wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
My sense of irony is also immensely pleased that one of the most useless threads in the history of the strength sports subforum turned out to have an interesting Westside video - dare i say it, the most up-to-date one currently floating around - AFTER I called for the thread to be ended.
What was useless with this thread?
Someone asked a legit question and received what appeared to be two answers. One answer was the “common” answer to the question, and the other was basically a right answer that nobody’s ever heard of apparently except for me.
I think the problem with this forum is that there’s too many people that think they know because they read a few threads or a couple articles on EFS. That doesn’t qualify you to answer anything! I’m not saying you need have an Elite total or train at Westside to have a take, but if you’re not around those type of gyms or see and talk to those guys at meets, the reality is that you probably are getting your info second hand at best case and that probably won’t qualify you as “knowing.”[/quote]
When did they switch it up? Why didn’t they just give it a different name? What benefits does it have over (old) RE or DE training?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
How did this thread last beyond the first response?[/quote]
I wondered that too.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
When did they switch it up? Why didn’t they just give it a different name? What benefits does it have over (old) RE or DE training?
[/quote]
One thing you have to understand, especially with Louie, is that the model is constantly changing. I think Louie has mentioned to me before that for every one change that they’ve made to the system, they’ve tried 9 others that didn’t work.
I’m not sure of a specific date when they’ve been doing and calling the Repeated Effort Method, but I know that guys have been doing this for at least a year now, and not just at Westside.
I would say that the method fused from the DE Method and working up to heavier weights on that particular day. It started out as something you’d do every 3 weeks or so, and it probably morphed it’s way to becoming a specific method now that you do all the time. It’s sort of like taking aspects of the Circa Max and DE Method with work-up sets and combining it to create this new method.
Also, I don’t think that the Repeated Effort was meant to replace the Repetition Method, but really, I don’t know know many guys that actually do the Repetition Method as a consistent thing. The only time I hear it used is when a guy is taking a light week and uses an accessory type lift for reps to replace a Max Effort lift.
The classic Westside model is still a very good one for many people…it just seems that the guys that compete often are in the gear often and lifting heavy often, that’s the real change.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
When did they switch it up? Why didn’t they just give it a different name? What benefits does it have over (old) RE or DE training?
One thing you have to understand, especially with Louie, is that the model is constantly changing. I think Louie has mentioned to me before that for every one change that they’ve made to the system, they’ve tried 9 others that didn’t work.
I’m not sure of a specific date when they’ve been doing and calling the Repeated Effort Method, but I know that guys have been doing this for at least a year now, and not just at Westside.
I would say that the method fused from the DE Method and working up to heavier weights on that particular day. It started out as something you’d do every 3 weeks or so, and it probably morphed it’s way to becoming a specific method now that you do all the time. It’s sort of like taking aspects of the Circa Max and DE Method with work-up sets and combining it to create this new method.
Also, I don’t think that the Repeated Effort was meant to replace the Repetition Method, but really, I don’t know know many guys that actually do the Repetition Method as a consistent thing. The only time I hear it used is when a guy is taking a light week and uses an accessory type lift for reps to replace a Max Effort lift.
The classic Westside model is still a very good one for many people…it just seems that the guys that compete often are in the gear often and lifting heavy often, that’s the real change.
[/quote]
Should I expect this to be seen in any articles on WSB or efts?
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Should I expect this to be seen in any articles on WSB or efts?[/quote]
Hard to say…
Things just evolve at Westside. Some things stick and others don’t. There’s a lot of things that are done at Westside that never make it into articles. Part of that is because Louie wants to make sure something works before putting it on paper, the other part is that I think Louie is starting to guard some things now.
Now this is purely my opinion, I don’t have any inside info if this is actually the case or anything, but I think Louie feels a little slighted that Dave and Jim are profiting of of Louie’s creation, and to some degree, DeFranco.
I know that EFS has totally helped promote Westside, their system of training, and Louie’s equipment, but I honestly believe that all this publicity and self promotion that Dave and Jim do for EFS bothers Louie. Louie sees these guys basically repackaging his system and making all this money off of it. I’ve heard from a few people that this was part of Louie’s motivation to come out with the Book of Methods (but again, this is all hearsay and I really don’t have any concrete evidence of this even though the signs are pointing in this direction).
Because of this, I don’t think you’re really going to see cutting edge info (as it pertains to Westside) on EFS. As it is, the articles now are pretty weak and diluted, and the only tidbits you get any more is from a sponsored lifter on occasion.
So, not sure if that answers the question at all. You may or may not see it in print, I don’t know, it’s probably up to Louie.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
Now this is purely my opinion, I don’t have any inside info if this is actually the case or anything, but I think Louie feels a little slighted that Dave and Jim are profiting of of Louie’s creation, and to some degree, DeFranco.
I know that EFS has totally helped promote Westside, their system of training, and Louie’s equipment, but I honestly believe that all this publicity and self promotion that Dave and Jim do for EFS bothers Louie. Louie sees these guys basically repackaging his system and making all this money off of it. I’ve heard from a few people that this was part of Louie’s motivation to come out with the Book of Methods (but again, this is all hearsay and I really don’t have any concrete evidence of this even though the signs are pointing in this direction).
Because of this, I don’t think you’re really going to see cutting edge info (as it pertains to Westside) on EFS. As it is, the articles now are pretty weak and diluted, and the only tidbits you get any more is from a sponsored lifter on occasion.
[/quote]
I’ll just say, for the record, that the one time I was ever at Westside somebody there, not to say that he was talking trash about Dave, but it clearly bothered him that a lot of Dave’s early work was writing on and about Westside, that a lot of people thought EliteFTS = Westside, etc. Louie’s response was (and if this isn’t precisely verbatim, it’s pretty close) “I don’t care about the money as long as the information gets out there.” Words to that effect, certainly. Now this was three years ago, actually it’ll be 4 in january and a lot happens in 4 years - among other things, Jim and Dave were still training at Westside. So feelings certainly could’ve changed, but just given that, I’d more tend to think that Louie just sees the financial opportunity in coming out with the book of methods, etc.
Also, for whatever it’s worth, Dave just posted on his twitter account that he had lunch with Louie and Doris, so it’s not like they hate each other now. Not saying you did, Dominator, or disagreeing, just throwing my two cents in.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Dave just posted on his twitter account that he had lunch with Louie and Doris…[/quote]
Twitter account? What’s that?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Also, for whatever it’s worth, Dave just posted on his twitter account that he had lunch with Louie and Doris, so it’s not like they hate each other now. Not saying you did, Dominator, or disagreeing, just throwing my two cents in.[/quote]
Let’s just say Dave needs Louie more than the other way around.
perhaps a stupid question but i thought DE and RE were the same ting only two diferent ways off sayin it?
Whoever is unclear on the issue should probably just go to his site and read his article. Pick any one and he probably explains it in their, and how he got the classification from Science and Practice of Strength Training (the book by Zatsiorsky)etc etc etc etc… I mean really, you’d have a hard time finding an article that it wasn’t mentioned in, especially the earlier ones.
Pat