What You've Learned From Experience

mr_popular · March 15, 2009, 10:21pm

[quote]alit4 wrote:

my experience:

in the past.
mostly isolation excercises
everyset to failure
light weights high reps
exclusively machines
done when i felt so weak and exhausted i couldn’t push the gym door open
static stretching before lifting

now.
mixture of big compound and isolation excercises
occasional sets to failure
heavy weights short sets, variable rest periods
mostly free weights
leave the gym feeling tired but strong
stretching only after/away from lifting

i am a skinny guy with a “lanky frame”, only 20LBS heavier at the same body fat levels,39 years old

conclusion.
“what you have learned from experience” is at best misguided, at worse, just wrong[/quote]

Wow, absolutely no offense intended towards you, but I just now realized you were a guy.

For the past several months whenever I saw you posting in a thread, I assumed from your picture that you were a woman.

system · March 15, 2009, 10:59pm

5 hours later…

Ok I finished reading all that.

First of all NP I don’t completely disagree with all of that. I think there definitely is a difference between training like a powerlifter just to get stronger and lifting like a bodybuilder to get bigger but I do think getting stronger should be the main focus. I’m not going to pretend like I’m an expert but when I look at guys bigger than me in my school they’re stronger than me.

When I look at the biggest guys in my gym they’re size is almost always directly correlated with how strong they are and the more I see peoples pics and stats on the forums the more this is proven to me.

and to be honest as the page was loading to your physique I was thinking “man he’s probably gonna be huge if he’s posting pics to prove himself” but honestly your physique isn’t that great.

You have a good back and your lean. The rest of you isn’t that developed and your arms and legs are skinny. How long have you been lifting?

on to reading alit4’s long post

Tumbles · March 15, 2009, 11:16pm

It was kind of an “I’m a retard” moment, but one of the most important things for me was realizing I should not be focusing on moving the most weight, but moving the most weight in a manner that stimulates the target muscle (or, allows for maximal poundage, etc [insert non-bb goals here]).

krazykoukides · March 15, 2009, 11:35pm

-You aren’t stuck on anybody’s schedule but your own.

That means… not even our ‘week’. You are not stuck to doing anything within 7 days. If you want a split that will go over 10 days and then repeat… then you can! The human body does not function on weekly cycles:)

This dawned on me when I got my own home-gym.

Dave9 · March 15, 2009, 11:46pm

[quote]Bicep_Craze wrote:

Eating big to bulk is important. But after 13 weeks of bulking, then it might be time to cut down a little.[/quote]

With respect, I’d say 12 weeks. After all, that’s when your bodyfat will hit exactly 14.769% and then you’ll have no chance of looking like BPiFC.

One thing I’ve learnt is that people ask the most ridiculously irrelevant questions regarding training/nutrition etc. We’ve all been there of course, but there’s no saving some people.

Nominal_Prospect · March 15, 2009, 11:49pm

[quote]sebbie wrote:
Interesting to note that the ‘isolation mans’ arm are lagging pretty badly, along with his legs for that matter. Maybe your lack of evil compound squats and deadlifts has done your physique some harm after all. I doubt Thib would find that physique impressive.
[/quote]

My arms are not lagging at all if you consider them from the perspective of my genetic bodybuilding potential (which you obviously wouldn’t know about).

I am naturally wide and light so creating the illusion of thickness is my main problem. My arms were my most improved body part by far. They are not large by any means but very much in line with what other young, natural BB’ers bring to the table. They were 15.5" pumped and flexed, which is quite adequate.

Also, both my arms and legs look a shitload larger with a pump. In fact, everything does. Any “size” issues I have disappear when I’m pumped, so I don’t worry about it too much. Like all bodybuilders, I consider my “pumped” appearance to be my actual appearance.

I am just not going to have the same proportions as people who outweight me. However, my physique ratio’s are up to par. That is how you determine whether your arms are small relative to the rest of your physique. You take ratio’s. And then you compare yours to someone else’s. I did.

My best ratio’s were

Upper Arm:Waist .41
Shoulder:Waist 1.63
Chest:Waist 1.40

Most big guys have big guts that kill their ratio’s.

I did compound squats and deadlifts consistently for at least half a year and I looked a LOT smaller and less muscular during that time. That was before I adopted my current training program. I have to train my ass off to look like that.

MEYMZ · March 15, 2009, 11:52pm

[quote]sebbie wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:

With my style of training, I don’t have the problem of no one outside my gym knowing that I lift weights. All pictures taken without a pump:

By the way, if you think my physique sucks (which I have no doubt you’ll try to claim) then show it to Christian Thib and ask him if he agrees. Don’t tell him anything about it prior. Just show him the pic and say, “CT, do you think this guy has a shitty physique?”

I absolutely, 100% guarantee you that he will say no. In fact, I’d bet my account on it.

Interesting to note that the ‘isolation mans’ arm are lagging pretty badly, along with his legs for that matter. Maybe your lack of evil compound squats and deadlifts has done your physique some harm after all. I doubt Thib would find that physique impressive.
[/quote]

Yeah, that is definitely not jacked. Less talk and more show man.

MEYMZ · March 15, 2009, 11:55pm

[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Bicep_Craze wrote:

Eating big to bulk is important. But after 13 weeks of bulking, then it might be time to cut down a little.

With respect, I’d say 12 weeks. After all, that’s when your bodyfat will hit exactly 14.769% and then you’ll have no chance of looking like BPiFC.

One thing I’ve learnt is that people ask the most ridiculously irrelevant questions regarding training/nutrition etc. We’ve all been there of course, but there’s no saving some people.
[/quote]

Are you kidding?!?!?! above 14.75% all your testosterone will turn into estrogen, you will start to loose muscle no matter how many cals you eat and your man boobs and belly will grow without control.

thismeanswar · March 16, 2009, 12:00am

No one knows it all and most everyone knows something. Listen and READ READ READ READ and NEVER think you know it all!

thismeanswar · March 16, 2009, 12:07am

I AM better than all those lazy fucks in the world!!

LilDaDDyDreW · March 16, 2009, 12:10am

WHEN DIETING NATURALLY DONT DO WHAT PEOPLE ON AAS ARE DOING AS FAR AS DIETING. YOU WILL DROP ALL YOUR WEIGHT AND MUSCLE FAST! :[

Nominal_Prospect · March 16, 2009, 12:21am

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
5 hours later…

Ok I finished reading all that.

First of all NP I don’t completely disagree with all of that. I think there definitely is a difference between training like a powerlifter just to get stronger and lifting like a bodybuilder to get bigger but I do think getting stronger should be the main focus. I’m not going to pretend like I’m an expert but when I look at guys bigger than me in my school they’re stronger than me.

When I look at the biggest guys in my gym they’re size is almost always directly correlated with how strong they are and the more I see peoples pics and stats on the forums the more this is proven to me.

and to be honest as the page was loading to your physique I was thinking “man he’s probably gonna be huge if he’s posting pics to prove himself” but honestly your physique isn’t that great.

You have a good back and your lean. The rest of you isn’t that developed and your arms and legs are skinny. How long have you been lifting?

on to reading alit4’s long post[/quote]

I am not huge because I’m not built that way and there is nothing I can do about it, short of waiting until I’m 40 and loading up on anabolics. Anyone who is determined to get big’n’fat will do it eventually, they usually just need to wait until they get old.

Don’t talk to me about bulking because my maintenance requirement is around 25 kcal/lb. I had to eat a ton of food just to be able to look “skinny” to you.

What’s funny is when people don’t even realize that aging is responsible for their ability to gain size. You read stories from people over 30 saying things like, "When I was young I was all about the ripped look.

Had abs and definition but didn’t put on any size until my late twenties. Man I was a dumbass, I wish I had started lifting heavier sooner."

These people don’t realize that “lifting heavier sooner” wouldn’t have made a whit of a difference for their physiques because everyone is skinny when they are young. These are the same guys who are always singing the praises of “heavy trainin’ and big eatin’”.

If you probe them far enough you will learn that none of them managed to gain size until they were at least 30. They attribute it to poor training methods when they were “young and dumb”, but the real reason is entirely physiological.

It is no coincidence that this “lift heavy and eat till you puke” nonsense doesn’t work on anyone who isn’t already predisposed to gaining size, either by genetics or muscle maturity. The majority of kids are skinny because they’re meant to be, not because they’re massively undereating or training incorrectly.

Adults undereat and train incorrectly as well, but adults generally have no problem gaining size. Again, it is all physiological. There is almost nothing you can do naturally to change it, just wait it out and enjoy your leanness while you have it.

You really can’t judge my accomplishments, or anyone else’s, without knowing where I came from. There are people who were more muscular than I was after two years of training on the first day they started. You think I’m skinny now but you don’t really know what skinny is in my world until you’ve seen my before pics.

I know the meaning of body recomposition much better than some guy who had 17" arms by the time he was 18 years old.

Those pics were taken no more than a year and a half apart, except for the back shot, which was a bit earlier. For comparison the newer ones again:

Nominal_Prospect · March 16, 2009, 12:27am

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
Yeah, that is definitely not jacked. Less talk and more show man.[/quote]

Lol, you have absolutely no idea how much effort went into making the physique shown in those photo’s. This is why I don’t put up my pics or stats. I now find myself arguing with a prick who knows absolutely nothing about me but is convinced that I don’t train hard enough, even though I’ve been through excruciating pain and all the rigors of a strict bodybuilding lifestyle.

And as the owner of that physique, on a day-to-day basis, I can say that yes, it was fairly impressive, and I was proud of it. Not epic perhaps, but enough for many people to notice, both in the gym and out. People of the opposite sex, as well.

I mean, let’s face it: 98% of the population would rather be long and lean. That’s exactly what I am.

Am I striving to look like Brad Pitt? Nope, try Dennis Wolf.
But everyone works with what he’s got.

system · March 16, 2009, 12:35am

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

My best ratio’s were

Upper Arm:Waist .41
Shoulder:Waist 1.63
Chest:Waist 1.40

Most big guys have big guts that kill their ratio’s.

I did compound squats and deadlifts consistently for at least half a year and I looked a LOT smaller and less muscular during that time. That was before I adopted my current training program. I have to train my ass off to look like that.[/quote]

You said your arms are 15.5, so your waist is over 37 inches??

also what does your current program look like, what are your stats, and how long have you been training?

I’m not looking to criticize here, I’m just wondering.

Nominal_Prospect · March 16, 2009, 12:45am

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
You said your arms are 15.5, so your waist is over 37 inches??

also what does your current program look like, what are your stats, and how long have you been training?

I’m not looking to criticize here, I’m just wondering.[/quote]

Nay, I always measured my arms cold and unflexed, so the ratio was not calculated using the 15.5" figure that I told you about. There’s no point in using a flexed measurement to determine the appearance of a limb in the relaxed position.

I don’t give out personally identifiable info (PII) over the net, so no stats. I can’t really answer how long I’ve been training without doing that either.

I posted my split here:

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/re_chad_waterbury_programs_your_opinions?pageNo=6#2875749

[quote]alit4 wrote:
now.
mixture of big compound and isolation excercises
occasional sets to failure
heavy weights short sets, variable rest periods
mostly free weights
leave the gym feeling tired but strong
stretching only after/away from lifting

i am a skinny guy with a “lanky frame”, only 20LBS heavier at the same body fat levels,39 years old

conclusion.
“what you have learned from experience” is at best misguided, at worse, just wrong[/quote]

You’re 39. However “lanky” you may think you are, I guarantee you take up more physical space than the average 19 year old.

If you had tried your current method of training at that age, you would have crashed and burned.

Majin · March 16, 2009, 12:53am

[quote]Tumbles wrote:
It was kind of an “I’m a retard” moment, but one of the most important things for me was realizing I should not be focusing on moving the most weight, but moving the most weight in a manner that stimulates the target muscle (or, allows for maximal poundage, etc [insert non-bb goals here]). [/quote]

IMO, best post.

To paraphrase in my own way: a powerlifter becomes bigger by getting stronger and a bodybuilder becomes stronger by getting bigger.

Because the bodybuilder wants to primarily stress the muscular system he/she must lift A LITTLE less weight and do more sets and reps instead of simply moving the weight.

Denying strength completely, like Nominal, is a terrible mistake.

MEYMZ · March 16, 2009, 1:26am

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
Yeah, that is definitely not jacked. Less talk and more show man.

Lol,[/quote] your physique is not funny.

[quote]you have absolutely no idea how much effort went into making the physique shown in those photo’s. [/quote] or you’re a bullshitter who convinces himself eitherway.

[quote]This is why I don’t put up my pics or stats.[/quote] for not facing reality? come on man, if you got through those grueling workouts you would look better.

[quote]I now find myself arguing with a prick [/quote] You are choosing to argue, and I know yourself better than you know me. So from now everyone who tells the truth is a prick? I definitely have to catch up, but thanks for the remark.

[quote]who knows absolutely nothing about me but is convinced that I don’t train hard enough, even though I’ve been through excruciating pain and all the rigors of a strict bodybuilding lifestyle. [/quote] that is something I don’t know, and maybe you don’t.

[quote]And as the owner of that physique, on a day-to-day basis, I can say that yes, it was fairly impressive, and I was proud of it. [/quote] good for you.

[quote]Not epic perhaps, but enough for many people to notice, both in the gym and out. People of the opposite sex, as well. [/quote] x2.

[quote]I mean, let’s face it: 98% of the population would rather be long and lean. That’s exactly what I am. [/quote] stick with what 98% of the population want, but don’t give advice to people who wanna be well… more than that.

[quote]Am I striving to look like Brad Pitt? Nope, try Dennis Wolf. But everyone works with what he’s got.[/quote] Yep, and definitely you haven’t shown to have… wait you just said u wanna look like Dennis Wolf?! GOOD LUCK.

Carlitosway · March 16, 2009, 1:50am

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
5 hours later…

Ok I finished reading all that.

First of all NP I don’t completely disagree with all of that. I think there definitely is a difference between training like a powerlifter just to get stronger and lifting like a bodybuilder to get bigger but I do think getting stronger should be the main focus.

I’m not going to pretend like I’m an expert but when I look at guys bigger than me in my school they’re stronger than me.