Consistency, heavy weights, good atmosphere (gym), Prilipen’s Table
5x5
Yes 5/3/1 works…
Im on 14th cycle as we speak…so i think its long enough…i did a few mistake when i started(to heavy, to much accessory pushing to failure)…anyway all i can say is i did good progress on overhead press,deads ans squat but my bench didnot really got up…probably my weak lift but i know its harder to progress on bench then it is on others lift…but yes 5/3/1 work if you cannot go in the gym for more then 1h like myself…
What works? good diet i would add to the thread!!
[quote]andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…[/quote]
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
I’ve been doing 531 now for almost exactly 8 months, its worked great for me. I have missed workouts here and there, not had great nutrition, and generally don’t sleep very well. I can only imagine how much better it would be if I had those things in order.
[quote]Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.[/quote]
DC is not a powerlifting routine…
Though even when following Wendler 5/3/1 you’re likely to end up doing more than 5 reps on your last bench set every wave (except for the deload waves) unless you skip deloads too often.
(you could always stop at 5 or whatever, if you wanted… But huh…)
I like (raw) benching or close-gripping off the pins (set a few inches off where your chest/sternum area will be after setting up) with a dead stop each time… That way you can always reset your setup when you feel the need.
5/3/1 is not the only game out there. It’s looking like the sheiko fad of last year. Come this time in 2010, it’ll be something else.
Do some homework first.
[quote]Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.[/quote]
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Don’t know if iys been said yet but training secondary, supportive, antagonist muscles. E. for bench upper back and triceps obviously Also Dumbell press flat and incline. and direct bicep work(Gasp!)
[quote]andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
[/quote]
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.
5/3/1
Eat and sleep.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.[/quote]
Significant strength? Or Significant size? Who are these guys who got strong with high reps? And I mean strong, not seeing your bench go from 135 to 185 using 3x10 on a chest day from a M&F magazine.This is a powerlifting thread, we are talking big weight. I have yet to hear of big time powerlifters getting a big bench using high reps…Maybe you have?
[quote]andrew88 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.
Significant strength? Or Significant size? Who are these guys who got strong with high reps? And I mean strong, not seeing your bench go from 135 to 185 using 3x10 on a chest day from a M&F magazine.This is a powerlifting thread, we are talking big weight. I have yet to hear of big time powerlifters getting a big bench using high reps…Maybe you have?
[/quote]
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104871&tid=126
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104579&tid=147
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=105106&tid=63
(really anyone doing 5/3/1)
need I say any more?
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
DC is not a powerlifting routine…
[/quote]
I totally missed that this was in the powerlifting section. My bad. Have nothing else to add.
Good night
[quote]OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.
Significant strength? Or Significant size? Who are these guys who got strong with high reps? And I mean strong, not seeing your bench go from 135 to 185 using 3x10 on a chest day from a M&F magazine.This is a powerlifting thread, we are talking big weight. I have yet to hear of big time powerlifters getting a big bench using high reps…Maybe you have?
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104871&tid=126
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104579&tid=147
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=105106&tid=63
(really anyone doing 5/3/1)
need I say any more?
[/quote]
Matt K uses high reps often. While low reps tend to be better for strength, don’t buy into the dogma that only reps under 5 add strength, if you improve your bench from 300 for 8 to 300 for 10, you have gotten stronger.
[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.
Significant strength? Or Significant size? Who are these guys who got strong with high reps? And I mean strong, not seeing your bench go from 135 to 185 using 3x10 on a chest day from a M&F magazine.This is a powerlifting thread, we are talking big weight. I have yet to hear of big time powerlifters getting a big bench using high reps…Maybe you have?
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104871&tid=126
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104579&tid=147
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=105106&tid=63
(really anyone doing 5/3/1)
need I say any more?
Matt K uses high reps often. While low reps tend to be better for strength, don’t buy into the dogma that only reps under 5 add strength, if you improve your bench from 300 for 8 to 300 for 10, you have gotten stronger.[/quote]
Exactly! Otherwise no one would be getting stronger wtih 5/3/1.
just FYI, Kroc isnt doing 5/3/1 at the current time.
[quote]OBoile wrote:
VikingsAD28 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.
Significant strength? Or Significant size? Who are these guys who got strong with high reps? And I mean strong, not seeing your bench go from 135 to 185 using 3x10 on a chest day from a M&F magazine.This is a powerlifting thread, we are talking big weight. I have yet to hear of big time powerlifters getting a big bench using high reps…Maybe you have?
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104871&tid=126
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104579&tid=147
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=105106&tid=63
(really anyone doing 5/3/1)
need I say any more?
Matt K uses high reps often. While low reps tend to be better for strength, don’t buy into the dogma that only reps under 5 add strength, if you improve your bench from 300 for 8 to 300 for 10, you have gotten stronger.
Exactly! Otherwise no one would be getting stronger wtih 5/3/1.[/quote]
My dilemma is that Matt K and all those guys are already strong. Are the high reps really getting them stronger or are they throwing in a change up because they have done so many workouts with the low reps to build their strength up to the amazing levels that they are at. When I see Kroc’s log I see that he simply resorted to that high rep stuff because he had no training partners.I doubt he would recommend doing around 20% or so of his one rep max for forty reps as a means for getting strong (he probably could have done 80+ reps with 135 anyways). Sure, it might help his 750lb bench because he has done so much of everything else, but for mere mortals it probably will not.Also, if you do eight reps with your true eight rep max weight, those 6,7,8 reps are usually going to be pretty shitty as your base starts to loosen up and the elbows start to wobble. Sure, you could probably keep it tight using your 12-15 rep max for eight, but is that really helping you more than 5 or less reps with big weight would?
[quote]andrew88 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
VikingsAD28 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
OBoile wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
Mateus wrote:
andrew88 wrote:
For example (In my opinion, from my experience): High reps (anything higher than 5 reps) on the bench press are bullshit because, if you bench correctly, you form starts to loosen up no matter how focused you are on staying tight…
I am sure that all the DC’ers would disagree with you on that statement. Granted it is only one working set with RP, it is still higher rep.
Sure, they might like high reps on bench for getting bigger. But for powerlifting, if you can stay tight for more than five reps, the weight is usually too light to really help you get any stronger (unless of course you are doing speed work)
Not sure where you are getting this idea. Lots of people have gained significant strength with reps > 5 on the bench.
Significant strength? Or Significant size? Who are these guys who got strong with high reps? And I mean strong, not seeing your bench go from 135 to 185 using 3x10 on a chest day from a M&F magazine.This is a powerlifting thread, we are talking big weight. I have yet to hear of big time powerlifters getting a big bench using high reps…Maybe you have?
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104871&tid=126
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=104579&tid=147
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=105106&tid=63
(really anyone doing 5/3/1)
need I say any more?
Matt K uses high reps often. While low reps tend to be better for strength, don’t buy into the dogma that only reps under 5 add strength, if you improve your bench from 300 for 8 to 300 for 10, you have gotten stronger.
Exactly! Otherwise no one would be getting stronger wtih 5/3/1.
My dilemma is that Matt K and all those guys are already strong. Are the high reps really getting them stronger or are they throwing in a change up because they have done so many workouts with the low reps to build their strength up to the amazing levels that they are at. When I see Kroc’s log I see that he simply resorted to that high rep stuff because he had no training partners.I doubt he would recommend doing around 20% or so of his one rep max for forty reps as a means for getting strong (he probably could have done 80+ reps with 135 anyways). Sure, it might help his 750lb bench because he has done so much of everything else, but for mere mortals it probably will not.Also, if you do eight reps with your true eight rep max weight, those 6,7,8 reps are usually going to be pretty shitty as your base starts to loosen up and the elbows start to wobble. Sure, you could probably keep it tight using your 12-15 rep max for eight, but is that really helping you more than 5 or less reps with big weight would?
[/quote]
Kroc is usually hitting heavy ass lifts for low reps on the main 3…quite a few singles from what I’ve seen over the past couple years. His assistance work is usually higher reps of course.
Anyway back to the topic…
Worked?
- Rotating lifts frequently
- Using a westside-style setup intelligently with all things considered (volume, recovery ability, failure on certain sets, etc.)
- Partial range movements to build confidence with heavier weights
- Training like a bodybuilder like Wendler says. Train your quads train your hams etc. Don’t toss an exercise because it’s deemed to be a dreaded bodybuilder exercise. Lying hamstring curls helped my ham strength quite a bit when I didn’t have any other solid ham equipment available outside of GHR’s. Leg presses also helped my dead quite a bit, both high and low reps.
- Lots of form drilling, especially on the bench
- Staying consistent with ab and lower back work makes a world of difference. Starting it up again after ditching it can add 10-20lbs to a lift for me in a matter of a couple weeks
- DC training brought up my lower body lifts a shit load
- At first I didn’t realize the 10% max drop rule for 5/3/1 months and months back and used my real maxes for a couple months. Hit great PR’s everytime.
- Straps improved my grip quite a bit contrary to popular belief. The ability to handle much heavier weights with straps for a few months than I was before without them had a big carry over and those same weights I was using straps on I was able to hold onto like a vice grip strapless.
Didn’t work:
Sheiko didn’t do much for my squat and dead by my bench flew up very fast.
Not much else to say in the didn’t work category…I think I’ve learned something from every attempt at an exercise or program that helped my lift improve in some way or another.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
just FYI, Kroc isnt doing 5/3/1 at the current time. [/quote]
I know. My comments about 5/3/1 were in regards to Wendler and the people who posted 5/3/1 on this site. Apologies if my wording wasn’t clear on that.