What Training?

I’ve given a second thought to my diet, since my weight actually went down a bit this week

I’m fed up with eating 3000/3200kcal 100% clean calories and hardly maintaining weight, so I’ll add “forbidden” stuff, in order to go up to 3700-4,000kcal a day, with roughly 600+carbs/100+fat/100+protein(grams)

First thing a big home made “fruits, oats and greens” gainer to sip during the morning and in the afternoon, and some apples to chew
Rice with added easy calories (Kfc wings, a pie, pizza burger whatever) at lunch
Big salad with eggs or meat at dinner, and coco milk, or dark chocolate squares after that
Peptides and dextrin during sport

That’s still quite clean actually aha
Well this begins next week. I’ll do a last weigh in tomorrow morning

[quote]tontongg wrote:
I’ve given a second thought to my diet, since my weight actually went down a bit this week

I’m fed up with eating 3000/3200kcal 100% clean calories and hardly maintaining weight, so I’ll add “forbidden” stuff, in order to go up to 3700-4,000kcal a day, with roughly 600+carbs/100+fat/100+protein(grams)

First thing a big home made “fruits, oats and greens” gainer to sip during the morning and in the afternoon, and some apples to chew
Rice with added easy calories (Kfc wings, a pie, pizza burger whatever) at lunch
Big salad with eggs or meat at dinner, and coco milk, or dark chocolate squares after that
Peptides and dextrin during sport

That’s still quite clean actually aha
Well this begins next week. I’ll do a last weigh in tomorrow morning [/quote]

I’d stick to the clean diet and have a huge cheat meal once every 5-7 days, -healthier and can even help lower bodyfat as well as build muscle see ‘hour of power’…
https://www.T-Nation.com/training/cure-for-skinny

Ah good read

Well thats what I was doing (junk every 7-14 days) but these days I feel like I can eat a bunch more - only that I am on a budget and somewhat bored with the rice veggies fruits and eggs

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:

I’d stick to the clean diet and have a huge cheat meal once every 5-7 days, -healthier and can even help lower bodyfat as well as build muscle see ‘hour of power’…
https://www.T-Nation.com/training/cure-for-skinny[/quote]

Turns out this was the best advice
I stay around 2500kcals a day with unlimited veggies, quite a dose of whey, Fish oil, vitamins and piling on carbs around training (usually mixing fruits with dextrin), which kinda rests me and makes me feel good

And on wednesday and sunday, I eat+drink an average of 3500kcal for dinner, in a couple of Hours. Not too funny even if I’m reaaally hungry after 2-3 days eating vegan, but funky for sure.

Thats around 3500kcal on average for the whole week, and it feels much less like a burden eating all the time

[quote]tontongg wrote:
I’ve given a second thought to my diet, since my weight actually went down a bit this week

I’m fed up with eating 3000/3200kcal 100% clean calories and hardly maintaining weight, so I’ll add “forbidden” stuff, in order to go up to 3700-4,000kcal a day, with roughly 600+carbs/100+fat/100+protein(grams)

First thing a big home made “fruits, oats and greens” gainer to sip during the morning and in the afternoon, and some apples to chew
Rice with added easy calories (Kfc wings, a pie, pizza burger whatever) at lunch
Big salad with eggs or meat at dinner, and coco milk, or dark chocolate squares after that
Peptides and dextrin during sport

That’s still quite clean actually aha
Well this begins next week. I’ll do a last weigh in tomorrow morning [/quote]

Why only 100g protein? I would double that, at least.

[quote]dt79 wrote:
You should be getting progressively stronger even if you’re following a bro split as long as you’re lifting with intensity, paying attention to technique and eating right. If you don’t get bigger and stronger, there’s something wrong with one of these.
[/quote]

I like you.

So simple, yet nobody gets it. If you tell people that on the interwebs and in real life, they will all nod and agree with you, yet turn around and completely fuck it up.

In my experience lack of intensity/attitude is the worst offender. There are those that have IT and those that don’t. For someone with some experience, it is very easy to spot in what category people fall. Basic ignorance is easily remedied, but attitude cannot easily be changed.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I like you.[/quote]

Thanks. I’ve always liked you(no homo).

[quote]So simple, yet nobody gets it. If you tell people that on the interwebs and in real life, they will all nod and agree with you, yet turn around and completely fuck it up.

In my experience lack of intensity/attitude is the worst offender. There are those that have IT and those that don’t. For someone with some experience, it is very easy to spot in what category people fall. Basic ignorance is easily remedied, but attitude cannot easily be changed.[/quote]

Yup. This is why I believe all you can really do is give someone broad strokes on how to achieve success and if he really wants it, he’ll get it.

[quote]craze9 wrote:

Why only 100g protein? I would double that, at least.
[/quote]

In the message just above yours, I didnt type macros but they are now around this amount of proteins. Note that I dont get why 200g would be more efficient than 100 since studies have been showing it’s wasting money, but maybe the old school approach of hard gainers that break down aminos super fast isnt broscience. Anyway, experimenting

About the intensity, I’ve simplified my sessions a lot. That’s essential imo. Basically squat everyday, one day up to a 2max, the other is paused squats, and then it’s one lift a day, pushing for strength, pulling for volume. Feeling great

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I like you.[/quote]

Thanks. I’ve always liked you(no homo).
[/quote]

What do you mean no homo? I thought we had something here. Nobody likes a tease.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

In my experience lack of intensity/attitude is the worst offender. [/quote]

Preach. 99% of gym-goers never figure this out, even if you tell them. Everyone thinks they work hard. If people were willing to leave as much sweat at the squat rack as they do on the treadmill, there would be a lot more jacked motherfuckers walking around.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

In my experience lack of intensity/attitude is the worst offender. [/quote]

Preach. 99% of gym-goers never figure this out, even if you tell them. Everyone thinks they work hard. If people were willing to leave as much sweat at the squat rack as they do on the treadmill, there would be a lot more jacked motherfuckers walking around.
[/quote]
So i guess you are in that 1%, and the rest of us 99% gym gurus lack intensity and have the wrong attitude? Is that what ur saying?

[quote]AzCats wrote:
So i guess you are in that 1%, and the rest of us 99% gym gurus lack intensity and have the wrong attitude? Is that what ur saying?[/quote]

Results will dictate the answer to that question.

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

In my experience lack of intensity/attitude is the worst offender. [/quote]

Preach. 99% of gym-goers never figure this out, even if you tell them. Everyone thinks they work hard. If people were willing to leave as much sweat at the squat rack as they do on the treadmill, there would be a lot more jacked motherfuckers walking around.
[/quote]
So i guess you are in that 1%, and the rest of us 99% gym gurus lack intensity and have the wrong attitude? Is that what ur saying?[/quote]

I think that’s probably a fair thing to say, to be honest.

I’ve worked out at a lot of gyms. Dozens. Most of them have been commercial gyms. In my experience, if I see 100 different people in the gym over the course of a couple hours in the weight room, it’s likely that I will see anywhere between 0 and 5 people lifting with high intensity. The rest are not. They’re chatting it up with their lifting buddies, wandering around looking at machines, or doing dumbbell curls at every angle possible.

Simply by having enough interest in weight lifting to post/read on a website like this regularly puts a person in a small percentage of lifters. It’s easy to forget that we’re in the minority, but the truth is, we are.

Let me ask you this: how many people do you know who are willing to lift weights to the point of blacking out on a lift, or getting a nose bleed, or busting a blood vessel in the eye? Does that sound like something more than 1% of gym goers are willing to do, just to put a few extra pounds on the bar?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I’ve worked out at a lot of gyms. Dozens. Most of them have been commercial gyms. In my experience, if I see 100 different people in the gym over the course of a couple hours in the weight room, it’s likely that I will see anywhere between 0 and 5 people lifting with high intensity. The rest are not. They’re chatting it up with their lifting buddies, wandering around looking at machines, or doing dumbbell curls at every angle possible.

Simply by having enough interest in weight lifting to post/read on a website like this regularly puts a person in a small percentage of lifters. It’s easy to forget that we’re in the minority, but the truth is, we are.

Let me ask you this: how many people do you know who are willing to lift weights to the point of blacking out on a lift, or getting a nose bleed, or busting a blood vessel in the eye? Does that sound like something more than 1% of gym goers are willing to do, just to put a few extra pounds on the bar?
[/quote]

I agree 100% with your general point about the average gymgoer. I would just frame it in terms of overall interest / effort / dedication, though – most people simply don’t do the work necessary to build significant strength/muscle.

I don’t like framing it in terms of “intensity” because I think that gets into the rather vague territory of subjective effort/focus on in-the-gym performance. Which I honestly don’t think is that big a factor. I have never vomited in the gym, blacked out, started bleeding, etc. (I did once completely lose vision after a wrestling practice, which was kind of cool, but besides the point.) So if that’s what we mean by intensity, I just don’t think it’s as important as 1) programming and 2) dedication over the long run.

You can have a weekend warrior who goes into the gym and busts his ass on a million sets of squats till he vomits, but I don’t think he’s going to make better progress than another guy quietly (even reluctantly) getting his volume in with 5 sets of 5 week after week.

When I look back at my progress and things I wish I’d done differently, it’s never – jeez, I wish I just lifted with more “intensity” that day I failed to set a PR. I wish I just “tried harder”… ?? It’s always programming or diet mistakes over multiple weeks or months.

There is some overlap between these concepts for sure, as in the guys who say Starting Strength doesn’t work because at the end of the day they don’t really want to add weight to the bar and go lift it 3x / week. But I do think the “intensity” thing is a bit overblown.

I have probably burst a blood vessel in my head bench pressing, but it was never the key to progress lol. In fact if that happens, I probably made a mistake with programming / recovery.

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You can have a weekend warrior who goes into the gym and busts his ass on a million sets of squats till he vomits, but I don’t think he’s going to make better progress than another guy quietly (even reluctantly) getting his volume in with 5 sets of 5 week after week.
[/quote]

I would honestly anticipate the opposite based on my own experience/observations.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]craze9 wrote:
You can have a weekend warrior who goes into the gym and busts his ass on a million sets of squats till he vomits, but I don’t think he’s going to make better progress than another guy quietly (even reluctantly) getting his volume in with 5 sets of 5 week after week.
[/quote]

I would honestly anticipate the opposite based on my own experience/observations.[/quote]

yeah my money’s on the million sets guy. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Btw, why is there a debate here ? I’m all for frequency and intensity, pushing big and grinding 2 or 3RM personal best, and then repping through lactic acid pain during hypertrophy zone. Nothing new

[quote]craze9 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I’ve worked out at a lot of gyms. Dozens. Most of them have been commercial gyms. In my experience, if I see 100 different people in the gym over the course of a couple hours in the weight room, it’s likely that I will see anywhere between 0 and 5 people lifting with high intensity. The rest are not. They’re chatting it up with their lifting buddies, wandering around looking at machines, or doing dumbbell curls at every angle possible.

Simply by having enough interest in weight lifting to post/read on a website like this regularly puts a person in a small percentage of lifters. It’s easy to forget that we’re in the minority, but the truth is, we are.

Let me ask you this: how many people do you know who are willing to lift weights to the point of blacking out on a lift, or getting a nose bleed, or busting a blood vessel in the eye? Does that sound like something more than 1% of gym goers are willing to do, just to put a few extra pounds on the bar?
[/quote]

I agree 100% with your general point about the average gymgoer. I would just frame it in terms of overall interest / effort / dedication, though – most people simply don’t do the work necessary to build significant strength/muscle.

I don’t like framing it in terms of “intensity” because I think that gets into the rather vague territory of subjective effort/focus on in-the-gym performance. Which I honestly don’t think is that big a factor. I have never vomited in the gym, blacked out, started bleeding, etc. (I did once completely lose vision after a wrestling practice, which was kind of cool, but besides the point.) So if that’s what we mean by intensity, I just don’t think it’s as important as 1) programming and 2) dedication over the long run.

You can have a weekend warrior who goes into the gym and busts his ass on a million sets of squats till he vomits, but I don’t think he’s going to make better progress than another guy quietly (even reluctantly) getting his volume in with 5 sets of 5 week after week.

When I look back at my progress and things I wish I’d done differently, it’s never – jeez, I wish I just lifted with more “intensity” that day I failed to set a PR. I wish I just “tried harder”… ?? It’s always programming or diet mistakes over multiple weeks or months.

There is some overlap between these concepts for sure, as in the guys who say Starting Strength doesn’t work because at the end of the day they don’t really want to add weight to the bar and go lift it 3x / week. But I do think the “intensity” thing is a bit overblown.

I have probably burst a blood vessel in my head bench pressing, but it was never the key to progress lol. In fact if that happens, I probably made a mistake with programming / recovery. [/quote]

Way to split hairs. We all know what Flippy meant. Also that odd example of the “weekend warrior” who squats till he pukes almost begs the question of DYEL.

[quote]tontongg wrote:
Btw, why is there a debate here ? I’m all for frequency and intensity, pushing big and grinding 2 or 3RM personal best, and then repping through lactic acid pain during hypertrophy zone. Nothing new [/quote]

Oh yeah? Producing a shitty 140kg squat in 3 years of training doesn’t sound like a guy who has IT to me.

Wtf are you talking about dude, thats more than 1.5 Times my bodyweight of 84, which is pretty much anywhere, on every chart, an intermediate level, which is what I am.

Considering I started as a long limbed lanky mofo who barely squatted the bar for reps at first and didnt even have decent squatting material for the first year, I’m ok with my approach.

If you are/were more advanced after a few years of training with ok material, then nice, bruh