What Naturals are Truly Capable of...

ill just leave this here

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I told you that in order to really understand what works for an individual you need to see what they have been doing already before making any changes.
[/quote]

Well, a noob hasn’t been doing anything so far. Hence he’ a noob. Care to part with advice for someone who’s done nothing so far, and therefore hasn’t made any progress.

[quote]
I also disagreed with you on throwing out some basic template for everyone based on an equation rather than looking at the individual. [/quote]

It’s OK if you disagree, but beginners don’t need much specialization/individualization. Sure adjustments can be made for the individual regarding coordination and athleticism (I wouldn’t advise starting a spaz off with squats and deadlifts), prior fitness experience (if they haven’t trained in a LONG time, because that puts them at noob status again), or anything making certain exercise inappropriate.

For the most part, noob training is generic.

[quote]

For your info
that is what any good doctor would do as well. You don’t diagnose words on a paper. The human condition is an X-Factor. [/quote]

Yes, a good doc 
 or trainer
 or nutritionist
 does things holistically. Again, I’m talking about training and nutritionally advising noobs.

[quote]
Now, if you claim I didn’t answer you again I will repost this to remind you.[/quote]

Still didn’t answer how to train a noob when a noob doesn’t have any progress so far, therefore making it so that there’s no progress to base things off.

EVERY nutrition coach or trainer takes on a client and initially uses intuition–what they THINK will work–in the beginning, then adjustments are made. You seem unable or not willing to part with that sort of initial information.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Man, this thread blew up today.

I just want to throw this out there, in case guys like Smashing Weights, Steven Alex, Saiyan, Utah, haven’t realized it yet:

You guys come off FAR worse than X at this point. It’s not even close. You’re nitpicking the fuck out of every little thing he says. It’s truly ridiculous how you guys want to pick apart his school curriculum. Is it really a worthwhile argument to keep up? You guys sound like fucking babies. I seriously challenge all of you guys to stop posting for 2 days, then read your own parts in this thread, and tell me that you honestly believe you’re on the right side of this.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight, which is why I’m posting. I have enjoyed posts from pretty much everyone participating in this thread in the past. X is one of 2 guys I remember reading since 2003 that are still here. The other is Thibs. I got a lot out of X’s posts for years, and while you guys can say he doesn’t help anyone, I can assure you that his posting style, and specific advice helped me. His progress inspired me in part because he went from a tiny dude to huge. And I respected the fact that he made his progress while balancing rigorous course work, followed by his current career. I think Saiyan posts some of the funniest shit on the internet, apart from this thread, and I also respect his profession. Utah is generally level-headed and sensible, and he’s also clearly done well outside the gym. And yet you all seem to suck at life in this and other related threads.

I hope this dies soon, it’s not good for anyone here.[/quote]

Agree with this for the most part

I’m unbiased as I do not know anyone in this thread and I never really post outside my training log, but the Professor-haters are looking really weak and childish in this thread.

From what I have read Prof is well educated, appears to be large and muscular, and his posts are pretty entertaining. He may not look like a bodybuilder, but very few people actually want to look like a bodybuilder and he appears to have a lot of muscle mass.

Honestly, I don’t agree with everything the Prof posts, but it is really pathetic how all of his posts are being attacked. I mean, attack the content in his posts if you think it is invalid, but attacking the poster is really not a good look and makes you appear desperate.

Anyways, just thought I would throw my opinion out there.

Peace

I still don’t get what the argument is between Prof X and everyone else

[quote]illadelphia91 wrote:
I still don’t get what the argument is between Prof X and everyone else[/quote]

Smashing weights summed it well

ahh, guess I gotta do some searching then
 Unless anyone wants to repost it

Wow, this thread really took off between last night and today. You know what was the most noticeable thing? There was very little constructive conversation from both sides. For the amount that those of you who constantly insult PX claim that he is such a huge prick, you sure don’t help matters when you make obnoxious, petty posts seething with sarcasm and smugness. Let’s dive right in to a few posts that caught my eye:

[quote]Smashing Weights wrote:
No way bro!
No way.
They go to the same school for MORE THAN TWO YEARS!!!
Samesies bro, samesies.

Professor X, please stop trying to equate your DDS to an MD.
Everyone gets it, you do some of the same schooling and have an understanding of A&P as well as Bio and Phys.
It’s just not on the same level as an MD.
[/quote]

First post is just stupid. You sound like a petulant child. No one said an MD and a DDS are equal. What was said (if you read my original post) is that the basic science curricula of both medical and dental school as it pertains to anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, and pharmacology are, for all intents and purposes, the same. Medical students I would venture to say learn more about histology, histopathology, pathology, and pathophysiology than dental students, and dental students learn more about the mouth. The clinical portions of their educations, of course, are entirely different, but that, too, was not something that was being discussed.

You clearly have built up a decent physique, and I respect that. If your attitude were was well developed as your body, I would feel more comfortable asking you questions, but when all I see coming from you are snarky, nit-picking posts, why would I want to engage in discussion with you? Please understand, I hold everyone to that standard, and that includes PX, who I agree could use an attitude adjustment in certain regards, but you don’t have five people jumping on you in every thread you post. Think about that.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Man, this thread blew up today.

I just want to throw this out there, in case guys like Smashing Weights, Steven Alex, Saiyan, Utah, haven’t realized it yet:

You guys come off FAR worse than X at this point. It’s not even close. You’re nitpicking the fuck out of every little thing he says. It’s truly ridiculous how you guys want to pick apart his school curriculum. Is it really a worthwhile argument to keep up? You guys sound like fucking babies. I seriously challenge all of you guys to stop posting for 2 days, then read your own parts in this thread, and tell me that you honestly believe you’re on the right side of this.

I have absolutely no dog in this fight, which is why I’m posting. I have enjoyed posts from pretty much everyone participating in this thread in the past. X is one of 2 guys I remember reading since 2003 that are still here. The other is Thibs. I got a lot out of X’s posts for years, and while you guys can say he doesn’t help anyone, I can assure you that his posting style, and specific advice helped me. His progress inspired me in part because he went from a tiny dude to huge. And I respected the fact that he made his progress while balancing rigorous course work, followed by his current career. I think Saiyan posts some of the funniest shit on the internet, apart from this thread, and I also respect his profession. Utah is generally level-headed and sensible, and he’s also clearly done well outside the gym. And yet you all seem to suck at life in this and other related threads.

I hope this dies soon, it’s not good for anyone here.
[/quote]

Best post of the thread not written by a guy named mezcal. Ha. But seriously, while I agree that PX continuing to respond to you guys only fuels the fire, how can you call him negative/prick/unhelpful/childish when your posts so clearly resemble his and are often times far more full of vitriol?

[quote]J Prufrock wrote:
The MD with like 12 posts? Right, I’ll believe what that guy has to say.

Well, um, it looks like I did. I am just telling you what we were tested over. We had to know everything that you spoke of in your post above. How does that equate to me not learning about the skull on “a doctor’s level”? I just don’t understand how you can complain when others try and say you haven’t accomplished certain things, and yet you are allowed to flat-out tell me that I have not done something that I know for a fact that I did.
[/quote]

I’m not sure what my post count has to do with my credentials or the validity of my opinion. For the amount that people rip on PX for his post count, why are you referencing mine? By your line of reasoning, the person with the highest post count should be the most believable, right? How does that work out for your crusade against PX?

I am an MD, whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you. I have no reason to lie, and have solely provided you with information regarding medical school curricula, not medical advice, and my background wouldn’t change the basic facts I previously laid out. Truthfully though, your continued insistence that your undergraduate anatomy experience was somehow equivalent to that of a medical professional in training completely undermines any credibility you may have had. Seriously. I took physiology, biochemistry, and a little pharmacology in college, too, and those courses barely touched the surface of what I encountered in medical school. The sooner you understand that, the better.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
There are people on this site who are friendly, humble, and knowledgeable as can be verified via objective means (PL meets, BBing contests, Degrees and Certifications in Nutrition, Kinesiology and fields specific to what gets discussed, not 'Well, Biology is Biology")
[/quote]

I suppose this is where the problem originated and the original intent was lost. The objective means that you have cited, when we’re talking about knowledge of bodybuilding, are absolutely appropriate. When it’s discussion of the human body, however, or issues of physiology, anatomy, etc., I would defer all of those certifications and accolades to someone who completed a graduate medical education. Again, though, the nitpicking pollutes the message ever so slightly in each post, so that by 10 pages later no one knows what the hell they’re even discussing anymore.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
It’s OK if you disagree, but beginners don’t need much specialization/individualization. Sure adjustments can be made for the individual regarding coordination and athleticism (I wouldn’t advise starting a spaz off with squats and deadlifts), prior fitness experience (if they haven’t trained in a LONG time, because that puts them at noob status again), or anything making certain exercise inappropriate.

For the most part, noob training is generic.
[/quote]

I don’t claim to know more about training than anyone else, but it would seem to me that while the statement “noob training is generic” may be somewhat true, the statements in bold are in complete opposition with those that aren’t in bolded type. I don’t think that refusing to provide a one-size-fits-all, easy five step guide to getting hyooge for noobs is that ridiculous, because like it or not there are other parts to the equation that do matter to devise an optimal training plan for someone, from noob to advanced.

Anyway, just my two cents, take it or leave it. I sincerely enjoy reading the useful material on this site, and appreciate those of you who take the time to provide positive input for those seeking the “relentless pursuit of muscle” or whatever the old motto of this site was.

And really, there’s no fucking way the guy I mentioned before, at 5’6 200-210 and <12% BF, could be natural, right? Right?!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The info on this page would have been like signing my name on the test before it really started.[/quote]

Cute pic I have one just like this in my netter atlas. Not even close to 500. And yes I am considering the rest of the skull

Looking for the post as well

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Best. Thread. Ever.

Say you covered something in school.
Someone else says they covered the same thing.
NO YOU DIDN’T!!!

Equate a DDS to an MD
Say that you cover more pharm in dentist school than they do in pharm school
Say that you cover more nutrition and diet in dentist school than someone who has degrees in Nutrition.

Wow wow wow!
This is an all time classic
Don’t ever stop!
No where else can you get this type of entertainment for free lol[/quote]

Here it is

cool thanks
 I wasn’t just talking about this thread specifically though. I never really read these shit storm threads, so I guess what I am really wondering is why there is such a hate for professor X on this site.

Edit: I just want to add that I am not trying to defend X. Obviously X has pissed a lot of people off when you see a humble and peaceful guy like Stu engaging in the arguments as well haha.

@socrplyr09-I don’t understand how people who, by their claims, are unbiased can come into a thread with little to no information about what is being discussed or about who the participants are, and try and defend X. As you haven’t been on the receiving end of his negativity, you really can’t know how some of us feel. It’s like how people have told me my whole life how I should handle personal issues when they have never experienced them. It just comes off as trying to act all-knowing when, in fact, you have no idea what’s going on. I don’t agree with the personal attacks on X.

However, I have never participated in all of that nonsense. The most inflammatory post I have ever sent X’s way was about his seemingly insecure nature. I have never insulted his intelligence or physique, or even his profession. Yet, I get lumped into a group of posters based solely off of my stance on a few issues. That’s X for you. Everything is absolutes with him. And, the thing about absolutes: I’ve heard only the Sith deal in them.

Mez

Px is the one who has said multiple times that dentistry and md are equal. Or at least he continues to imply as well as state claims that dentists know more about pharmacology than a pharmacist. It’s claims like that that cannot go in tested since they are plain wrong.

You can call him a price and asshole ect because that is how he acts. Does that give others a right to do the same? No but it doesn’t excuse his behavior either.

Undergrad course can certainly be harder and more indepth than med school classes. My cell bio and biochem classes were easier in med school than undergrad. I loved it.

And not being able to provide even a basic template is certainly not the way to go. A basic template lays the foundation the. The beginner can tweak from there but just saying lift heavy and eat is no where near good enough.

Also curious what you matched into?

[quote]illadelphia91 wrote:
cool thanks
 I wasn’t just talking about this thread specifically though. I never really read these shit storm threads, so I guess what I am really wondering is why there is such a hate for professor X on this site.

Edit: I just want to add that I am not trying to defend X. Obviously X has pissed a lot of people off when you see a humble and peaceful guy like Stu engaging in the arguments as well haha. [/quote]

Lol the storms are normally about a billion different things.

And yes when stu gets involved you know someone has really gone off the tracks

@mezcal-Look, I actually like and agree with many of your posts. However, I think your outlook on the whole “X fiasco” is largely flawed. You keep telling us to think about how he gets attacked by about five or more posters all the time. Really, if you think about it, why is this so? Is it because X is black, like he so often claims? Is it because he doesn’t want to be a bodybuilder? Is it because we are all conspiring against him? No, it’s because he has acted in such a way that has angered each and every one of the posters that gives him trouble so often.

Does that justify what they say and do? Not really. Does it explain how X kind of got what was coming to him? Absolutely. So many of you seem to think that, just because this is a website, you don’t have to be as respectful to someone as you would be in real life. The truth is, and you have to admit this, if X talked to people in the real world like he does on here, bad things would result from it. There would be consequences. Nobody can stand to be talked to the way X talks to many, especially year after year for over a decade.

I tried to be civil with X from the onset. I told myself, “Look, he can be abrasive and bullheaded, but just give him a shot.” Look where it got me. He just tries to call me out incessantly and tell me how “wrong” I am each time I post. It seems strange that one can even be absolutely “wrong” in a forum meant to entertain all opinions. This place is here for discussion, no?

[quote]mezcal wrote:
No one said an MD and a DDS are equal.
[/quote]
You didn’t say that (although professor X insinuated that you did) and I was not talking about you.
If you are familiar at all with Professor you would know that he has tried to equate his DDS to an MD many times.

I addresses this in the other thread.
I stated why I give X s hard time when he posts stupid things.
He is an entity of this site who’s sole purpose is to cause these threads, rack up views, rack up click counts and keep this forum popping up at the top of google searches.
That is the only reason the powers to be have not squashed these threads and this behavior YEARS ago.
Does that make sense?
I told X that I know he’s here for this and that my encounters with him are the equivalent to watching the jersey shore.
Mindless entertainment because its so idiotic.
He acts offended and indignant but that isn’t the case.

I have given legit advice to legit posters plenty of times and have been contacted by posters and help them outside of this forum.
I help when help is needed and, admittedly, when X trolls I troll him right back and give him a hard time.
Anyway, I already told X I won’t be replying to him anymore and I won’t.
It’s old, it’s tired and everyone here already gas are up thier minds regarding his helpful mess or lack thereof.

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
@socrplyr09-I don’t understand how people who, by their claims, are unbiased can come into a thread with little to no information about what is being discussed or about who the participants are, and try and defend X. As you haven’t been on the receiving end of his negativity, you really can’t know how some of us feel. It’s like how people have told me my whole life how I should handle personal issues when they have never experienced them. It just comes off as trying to act all-knowing when, in fact, you have no idea what’s going on. I don’t agree with the personal attacks on X. However, I have never participated in all of that nonsense. The most inflammatory post I have ever sent X’s way was about his seemingly insecure nature. I have never insulted his intelligence or physique, or even his profession. Yet, I get lumped into a group of posters based solely off of my stance on a few issues. That’s X for you. Everything is absolutes with him. And, the thing about absolutes: I’ve heard only the Sith deal in them.[/quote]

That was sort of a strange post, I’m not going to lie. I have read the whole thread, so I don’t understand how I could have no idea “what is being discussed or who the participants are.” TBH those elements really don’t matter that much , I was referring to the rude tone seen in attacking posts against a particular poster.

“As you haven’t been on the receiving end of his negativity, you really can’t know how some of us feel” ----- Hmmm I am definitely not a frequent follower of these forums, but there must have been some e-bullying going on or something ?..

Why are you defending yourself? I literally have no idea who you are, and never referred to a single poster in my post. How you lumped yourself into the “Prof-haters” ( as I called them) is beyond me.

But anyways, I am certainly not trying to tell what people to do, I am just throwing my unbiased opinion out there. There may be others who feel the same, but simply aren’t posting.

Peace

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Mez

Px is the one who has said multiple times that dentistry and md are equal. Or at least he continues to imply as well as state claims that dentists know more about pharmacology than a pharmacist. It’s claims like that that cannot go in tested since they are plain wrong.

You can call him a price and asshole ect because that is how he acts. Does that give others a right to do the same? No but it doesn’t excuse his behavior either.

Undergrad course can certainly be harder and more indepth than med school classes. My cell bio and biochem classes were easier in med school than undergrad. I loved it.

And not being able to provide even a basic template is certainly not the way to go. A basic template lays the foundation the. The beginner can tweak from there but just saying lift heavy and eat is no where near good enough.

Also curious what you matched into?

[/quote]

Honestly, no where did I interpret a statement of his to say that an MD and a DDS are equivalent, rather, that the initial basic science component of their anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology courses are on the same level. I agree with the latter part of that. Oftentimes, medical and dental students may sit in the same lecture hall for those courses. Of course when we’re talking about the clinical component of the education, they are no where near the same, and I don’t think anyone would make the claim that they are. Interestingly, however, there are some dental OMFS residencies that require an additional year or two of coursework plus the residency years, and the graduate finishes as a fully licensed OMFS not limited to just endodontics, but as someone able to perform craniofacial or maxillofacial surgery. Just some minor trivia, haha.

I actually find your respect for pharmacy school to be more interesting than anything else. I wouldn’t venture to say that MD/DDS know more about drugs than a pharmacy graduate, however, I wouldn’t argue that they know less. Honestly, with the very small exception of clinical pharmacists whose sole job is to work in the ICU rounding on patients taking 15 meds to find the very, very obscure drug interactions, they are not a critical part of the clinical care team. You will be expected to know every major side effect of every common drug, as well as common life threatening interactions, AND why you would pick certain drugs over others who have the same ultimate result. Very few garden variety pharmacists are able to reconcile the pathophysiological reasoning behind choice of drug within the same class, and you will realize that soon enough.

I agree with what you say in regards to the beginner program, though I would take exception to the thought that a true beginner would know precisely what tweaks would be advantageous to them. For example, how many kids do you think would cut out squats for fear of injury/hard work?

As for me, I matched into anesthesiology at a well known Boston hospital. I am sincerely looking forward to putting internal medicine in the rear view and spending more time in the OR.

EDIT: I forgot to mention J Prufock. Just because I have a low post count doesn’t mean I don’t know who is posting - I’ve been an avid reader of T-Nation since before I even signed up for a forum account. I know who X is, I know he can be a jerk, and I also know there’s a gang of other dudes who gang up on him in nearly every thread he posts. And both sides blame the other for the deterioration of honest discussion on this website. Everyone is sick of it, so I wish they’d just move on. It’s everyone’s fault, not one particular party. Recognize that.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Did you miss that I ALWAYS have current pics in my avatar?

? The AVATAR PICTURE is current.

Reading comprehension.[/quote]

You used the plural “pics.” Thought you may have meant profile since avatar is a single.

No one is yanking your chain here.

[quote]mezcal wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Mez

Px is the one who has said multiple times that dentistry and md are equal. Or at least he continues to imply as well as state claims that dentists know more about pharmacology than a pharmacist. It’s claims like that that cannot go in tested since they are plain wrong.

You can call him a price and asshole ect because that is how he acts. Does that give others a right to do the same? No but it doesn’t excuse his behavior either.

Undergrad course can certainly be harder and more indepth than med school classes. My cell bio and biochem classes were easier in med school than undergrad. I loved it.

And not being able to provide even a basic template is certainly not the way to go. A basic template lays the foundation the. The beginner can tweak from there but just saying lift heavy and eat is no where near good enough.

Also curious what you matched into?

[/quote]

Honestly, no where did I interpret a statement of his to say that an MD and a DDS are equivalent, rather, that the initial basic science component of their anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology courses are on the same level. I agree with the latter part of that. Oftentimes, medical and dental students may sit in the same lecture hall for those courses. Of course when we’re talking about the clinical component of the education, they are no where near the same, and I don’t think anyone would make the claim that they are.

Interestingly, however, there are some dental OMFS residencies that require an additional year or two of coursework plus the residency years, and the graduate finishes as a fully licensed OMFS not limited to just endodontics, but as someone able to perform craniofacial or maxillofacial surgery. Just some minor trivia, haha.

I actually find your respect for pharmacy school to be more interesting than anything else. I wouldn’t venture to say that MD/DDS know more about drugs than a pharmacy graduate, however, I wouldn’t argue that they know less. Honestly, with the very small exception of clinical pharmacists whose sole job is to work in the ICU rounding on patients taking 15 meds to find the very, very obscure drug interactions, they are not a critical part of the clinical care team. You will be expected to know every major side effect of every common drug, as well as common life threatening interactions, AND why you would pick certain drugs over others who have the same ultimate result. Very few garden variety pharmacists are able to reconcile the pathophysiological reasoning behind choice of drug within the same class, and you will realize that soon enough.

I agree with what you say in regards to the beginner program, though I would take exception to the thought that a true beginner would know precisely what tweaks would be advantageous to them. For example, how many kids do you think would cut out squats for fear of injury/hard work?

As for me, I matched into anesthesiology at a well known Boston hospital. I am sincerely looking forward to putting internal medicine in the rear view and spending more time in the OR.

EDIT: I forgot to mention J Prufock. Just because I have a low post count doesn’t mean I don’t know who is posting - I’ve been an avid reader of T-Nation since before I even signed up for a forum account. I know who X is, I know he can be a jerk, and I also know there’s a gang of other dudes who gang up on him in nearly every thread he posts. And both sides blame the other for the deterioration of honest discussion on this website. Everyone is sick of it, so I wish they’d just move on. It’s everyone’s fault, not one particular party. Recognize that.[/quote]

Nice match. I am too lazy to keep typing long replies and debate the knowledge of professional schools as we seem to have ver different views. I have never see or heard of any schools mixing classes that is a first.

@Mezcal and soc-All I will say is that I find it interesting that, as you both have said, you followed this thread and know of how X acts. If that is the case, why are you both just now stepping in? Why not step in any of the times X was harassing another poster? I just see a trend here where guys come in and attempt to speak on how those who give X trouble are acting out of line, but failed to step in when X himself was out of line.

I do agree with you both, however, that all who throw insults back and forth are doing nothing but lower the quality of this site. X stated earlier that he plans to try and avoid adding to the problem. Only time will tell if that is true. After a decade of him failing to stay out of it, I don’t have high hopes.