What Naturals are Truly Capable of...

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
I do agree with those who say that Professional school is above Undergraduate school. I don’t know who would think otherwise. However, I still don’t understand why X feels the need to throw around his accomplishments as a means of attaining respect. Really, how can he not see at this point that he can’t force people to respect his accomplishments, no matter how hard he tries. He would be much more liked and respected if he would just let others come to their own conclusions and not try and push his opinions on everyone left and right.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with throwing around an accomplishment.

I was just told buy Stu that my credentials do not measure up…when the truth is the exact opposite.

[quote]mezcal wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
People don’t need ANY degree to understand ENOUGH about physiology to be a great contest prep coach or trainer.

I have an undergraduate degree in nutrition, registration as dietitian, and a masters degree in nutrition and exercise physiology. I’d know enough to get where I am and have been at physically or to train someone WITHOUT these degrees.

Yeah, it was cool to learn a ton and it trained me for my career positions in clinical and corporate dietetics and foodservice management and it adds to my knowledge for sports nutrition, but for bodybuilding and sports nutrition, one can accrue the needed knowledge from reading books and articles and going to the gym and experience.

Shelby, JM, CT, Stu, Skip, Scott Abel, Chris Aceto, Tom Venuto, Dan Duchaine, and so on - none had or have a medical degree, nor did they or do they need ANY advanced degree to do what they are doing or did. What someone learns in a clinical nutrition, biology, or anatomy course in school has almost nothing to do with real world application in bodybuilding and sports, and this is coming from someone whose majority of coursework dealt with these subjects. [/quote]

Ryan - as I said, I meant no slight at you and I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you professed to know everything. Of your peers, you can pick out those who you would want to be your doc and those who you wouldn’t, quite easily. I would, however, reserve judgment on your attendings. There ARE bad docs in this world, no doubt, but until you’ve accrued the experience the people you reference have, you still have things to learn from them. Remember, despite what you think of them, they have twenty years in the business, and the knowledge to go with it. I don’t mean this in any kind of aggressive way, just offering some friendly advice.

Brick - I never said I think that PX is the best source on this site to go to with bodybuilding in mind, nor did I say you need to have an advanced degree to provide such advice. In fact, I explicitly stated that I would defer things like contest prep to zraw, Stu, JM, and the others you’ve listed. I do take issue, however, with people pretending that because PX hasn’t dieted to contest lean that he doesn’t know anything about training. I was merely stating that due to his background he actually knows more about physiology than most around here, and he has successfully applied those principles to fit his goals.

PX being knowledgable about some topic does not somehow mean that Stu or zraw or others don’t have any experience with different things (or, gasp, the same issue!). The polarizing dogmatic arguments that go down on these forums are largely the reason that I choose not to post, because the answer is ALWAYS somewhere in the middle, despite the vociferous arguments of the belligerents on each side.

And to stay on topic, a friend of mine on Facebook constantly posts about his nutrition and training company using himself as a model. He claims to be a “natural” bodybuilder at 210 lbs, 5’6 tall, and 12% body fat at most. Constantly posts natural this natural that while pimping out his supplements/training methods…right bro, because people believe you have more LBM than Zane while being 3 inches shorter.[/quote]

Keep posting.

Much respect.

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

Oh yeah, MODOK was a good poster.
I’m sure X’s schooling has lead to some knowledge that pertains to this but, like you said, specifics are rarely if ever shared.

Brick has asked X countless times to give the most basic of diet and training outlines or recommendations and always left with some extremely vague non specific answer.
[/quote]

^This would be false. We disproved that “sarcoplasmic hypertrophy” on this site. It is amazing how you claim there are no specifics when in every single post lately I have to defend every statement uttered against 10 different ranting posters?

How can ANY specifics be brought up in that condition?

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
^Ah, I understand. Yeah, it has always seemed that he thinks his approach should work for anyone. If not “they must not be cut out for this”.[/quote]

He didn’t even state ANY approach for noobs.

What to do with a noob for nutrition? X said he’d ask him what his views on food are. That’s it.

Training? X said, “I’d tell him to get in the gym.” That’s it. [/quote]

This is untrue. I would say you are flat out lying but let’s keep it professional.

I told you that in order to really understand what works for an individual you need to see what they have been doing already before making any changes.

I also disagreed with you on throwing out some basic template for everyone based on an equation rather than looking at the individual.

For your info…that is what any good doctor would do as well. You don’t diagnose words on a paper. The human condition is an X-Factor.

Now, if you claim I didn’t answer you again I will repost this to remind you.

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Aren’t they 2 years or so old though?[/quote]

Why would I need current pics to see what I built when I already did that over several years?
[/quote]
This can’t be serious.
Ease up on the trolling[/quote]

Did you miss that I ALWAYS have current pics in my avatar?

If you are just checking to see if I am making progress, look there.[/quote]

Not picking on you, I’m a fan, just wanted to say hey.

Maybe he has friend access, just pointing out…
[/quote]

? The AVATAR PICTURE is current.

Reading comprehension.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
There was some good discussion happening in here but not anymore.
I wonder what changed???[/quote]

THIS, is perhaps the sole reason why PX receives the attitude he does.

PX- I’m not going to butt heads back and forth with you. There are people on this site who are friendly, humble, and knowledgeable as can be verified via objective means (PL meets, BBing contests, Degrees and Certifications in Nutrition, Kinesiology and fields specific to what gets discussed, not 'Well, Biology is Biology") and they actually create a wonderful collective source of information, support, and a friendly atmosphere.

Even your basic attitude when someone asks you a question, and you retort with some irritated crap about how you’re posted so much over the years that you’re not going to jump through hoops now, brings the place down.

Seriously bro, get over yourself, you’re a big guy, but you’re kind of a pompous ass. One thing I learned when I worked in TV, was that no one cares how good you are if no one wants to work with you on their team.

You continually post the same hunched over MM poses, occasionally with bad lighting, or photoshopped edges (yes, we all notice) but then get annoyed if anyone requests shots from all angles (quarter turns), whining about how you’re not a bodybuilder.

Every post I make that sets you off, reflects my opinions. Sure many people seem to jump on them in agreement, but just as you tell people to ignore you, you can easily ignore me. Of course I’m not going to apologize for the fact that my accomplishments are indeed verifiable, and as I always do my best to act humble and be helpful, people seem to listen and respect me even if they don’t agree (which I’m perfectly fine with).

Keep yapping though. For a thread on Natural achievement, I thought that being a competitor as well as a WNBF/INBF contest judge might allow me to provide some good insight. I’ll just leave it to you though. You’ve read muscle magazines for a long time, and also train at the same gym as a few NPC competitors. It holds the same water. I’m out, enjoy the thread, it’s all about you now anyway (again).

I wonder how many more quality posters will leave by the year’s end.

S[/quote]

Best Post

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

Best Post
[/quote]

I personally found:

To be patently offensive…because a college degree in nutrition is not on the same level as medical or dental training.

That is why mezcal’s post is relevant.

No one is taking away from what Stu may have accomplished, but he can take his comment here back from where he pulled it from.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I know they cover more than the mouth but it will not be on the level of a many other PhDs (obv depending on field) and oharmach students.[/quote]

Yeah, this would be false. No average PhD is dissecting the human body for their degree nor do they match the med school students in all basic studies.

[quote]
It’s like an upper level phys course from undergrad. You will know much more than the general population but little compared to many others. Again just my opinion.

I wasn’t just commenting in docs and muscular ppl. Just docs in general.

I think it’s funny you think I am talking myself up and feel like know a shit ton. I feel 100% inadequate I realize I don’t know jack shit. But I still can pick out terrible doctors and ppl in my class and the class above me that are just plain stupid. And you also pointed out what I hate the most about first year half of the basic science shit we learn means nothing for real world practice. Just because someone is a doctor does not mean they get my respect they have to earn it just like everyone else. [/quote]

?? But you haven’t earned a degree yet.[/quote]

Technically I do have a degree.

And even if I didn’t what’s your point?

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
And even if I didn’t what’s your point?
[/quote]

That

Is false.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

And even if I didn’t what’s your point?
[/quote]

That

Is false.
[/quote]
Having a degree has nothing to do with whether or not that is correct

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

And even if I didn’t what’s your point?
[/quote]

That

Is false.

[/quote]
Oh so a dentist will cover more phys than a physiology phd? Or. Biochem phd or a pharm student. Ok big guy

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

Best Post
[/quote]

I personally found:

To be patently offensive…because a college degree in nutrition is not on the same level as medical or dental training.

That is why mezcal’s post is relevant.

No one is taking away from what Stu may have accomplished, but he can take his comment here back from where he pulled it from.[/quote]

LOL. Comments like “I got my BF measured by calipers but was told it wasn’t accurate” and your inability to ever say anything beyond vagaries is why no one respects your education around here. You continually prove you know nothing about things like bodyfat measurements but demand respect because of your “background in genetics/biology/personal training”…well, at some point you have to put up or shut up and actually demonstrate knowledge in the field of discussion.

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

Best Post
[/quote]

I personally found:

To be patently offensive…because a college degree in nutrition is not on the same level as medical or dental training.

That is why mezcal’s post is relevant.

No one is taking away from what Stu may have accomplished, but he can take his comment here back from where he pulled it from.[/quote]

LOL. Comments like “I got my BF measured by calipers but was told it wasn’t accurate” and your inability to ever say anything beyond vagaries is why no one respects your education around here. You continually prove you know nothing about things like bodyfat measurements but demand respect because of your “background in genetics/biology/personal training”…well, at some point you have to put up or shut up and actually demonstrate knowledge in the field of discussion.[/quote]
loool

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

LOL. Comments like “I got my BF measured by calipers but was told it wasn’t accurate” and your inability to ever say anything beyond vagaries is why no one respects your education around here. You continually prove you know nothing about things like bodyfat measurements but demand respect because of your “background in genetics/biology/personal training”…well, at some point you have to put up or shut up and actually demonstrate knowledge in the field of discussion.[/quote]

WTF? How is it I don’t know anything about body fat measurements? There isn’t exactly that much to know about it.

I told you my caliper reading. What does that have to do with general knowledge3 about fat readings?

What specifics have not been discussed? Medical knowledge of facts and training theory are nowhere near the same.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Oh so a dentist will cover more phys than a physiology phd? Or. Biochem phd or a pharm student. Ok big guy
[/quote]

I mentioned human dissection for a reason. That isn’t knocking someone’s education…but actual physical knowledge of the insides of a human being and the treatment of that being and a PhD are not the same education at all and are not even comparable.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Oh so a dentist will cover more phys than a physiology phd? Or. Biochem phd or a pharm student. Ok big guy
[/quote]

I mentioned human dissection for a reason. That isn’t knocking someone’s education…but actual physical knowledge of the insides of a human being and the treatment of that being and a PhD are not the same education at all and are not even comparable.[/quote]
To be fair, I worked with cadavers my freshman year as an exercise science major before I switched to mechanical engineering, so you’ll do need to clarify more on your experience with dissection.

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Oh so a dentist will cover more phys than a physiology phd? Or. Biochem phd or a pharm student. Ok big guy
[/quote]

I mentioned human dissection for a reason. That isn’t knocking someone’s education…but actual physical knowledge of the insides of a human being and the treatment of that being and a PhD are not the same education at all and are not even comparable.[/quote]
To be fair, I worked with cadavers my freshman year as an exercise science major before I switched to mechanical engineering, so you’ll do need to clarify more on your experience with dissection.[/quote]

Agreed cadaver use is not kept to just professional student. There are plenty of undergrads that do cadaver dissections.

I do fail to see how a dissection is giving you knowledge of physiology or a better knowledge base in general than others

[quote]spar4tee wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Oh so a dentist will cover more phys than a physiology phd? Or. Biochem phd or a pharm student. Ok big guy
[/quote]

I mentioned human dissection for a reason. That isn’t knocking someone’s education…but actual physical knowledge of the insides of a human being and the treatment of that being and a PhD are not the same education at all and are not even comparable.[/quote]
To be fair, I worked with cadavers my freshman year as an exercise science major before I switched to mechanical engineering, so you’ll do need to clarify more on your experience with dissection.[/quote]

Yes, “working with cadavers” and Gross anatomy on a doctor’ level are the same?

We had to know where every major vein was and every part of internal anatomy on several different cadavers.

You did this?

We took Gross Anatomy with the med students. This wasn’t some undergrad course.

[quote]mezcal wrote: A “much higher level way past college” means graduate school, be it medical, dental, or science-related doctoral programs. While these degrees are awarded by colleges, to make the claim that coursework from such programs is in any way equivalent to undergraduate coursework is laughable.

Medical and dental schools put their students through graduate level anatomy, biochemistry, nutrition, and physiology courses that far eclipse in their depth AND breadth anything an undergraduate would learn. There is a reason medical school is considered difficult, and it’s because its rigorous coursework is not completable by all.

As an MD, I respect what X has to say, because the guy has the best of both worlds: he has the medical level coursework training, as well as a hell of a lot of progress in the gym. He has a perspective on the physiology of the human body that, quite frankly, very few others on this site have. Unless you have graduated from medical or dental school, you simply haven’t the foggiest idea of what those accomplishments take, or the knowledge imparted on you by graduation.

Does X have the physique of a bodybuilder? No. Can he be crass and obnoxious? Sure! But I would be too if I had five different people denigrating me in various ways on every post I made, be it mocking his profession, physique, or in this case, even education. The point is that if you want bodybuilding information, go ahead and ask Stu or zraw, as they clearly have been very successful in that regard, however, if you want the opinion of someone with intimate understanding of human physiology as it pertains to muscle building, give me the guy with the medical degree who is also 250+ pounds. That’s not to say that those with undergraduate nutrition or kinesiology degrees don’t know anything about physiology (because that would be stupid), but rather, until anyone else has completed the coursework at such a medical level, why would you assume to know more?

And to answer your other question, a DDS or DMD (dental degree) has the ability to do post-graduate residency training in oral maxillofacial surgery, endodontics, orthodontics, etc. Any of these could be considered an oral surgeon, and once the training is completed, the candidate becomes a fully licensed, independent practitioner of whatever craft they’ve chosen.

Carry on.[/quote]

I have degrees in English and Philosophy. I don’t know anything about the human body. I just eat stuff, lift, get big, and profit. Okay well maybe not profit, but you get the idea.