[quote]dj20 wrote:
I’ve heard RDL a couple of times so that is what I am kind of leaning towards.
What would be the best rep scheme for someone who has never done them? Also, how much weight would you suggest starting out with?
Thanks[/quote]
Don’t be afraid to start light with it, even a plate can be okay for day 1. But in general I think shooting for about 50% of your 1RM on real deads for 3 sets of 20 is a good goal to shot for you. You can use straps if you use a double overhand grip, which I prefer on the high rep sets. The cardio effect is pretty strong on this one and I think the isometric hold for the traps really helps train them to do the same thing in a regular deadlift.[/quote]
Alright 3x20 it is. Thanks a lot Tim and everyone else for your input!
[quote]dj20 wrote:
I’ve heard RDL a couple of times so that is what I am kind of leaning towards.
What would be the best rep scheme for someone who has never done them? Also, how much weight would you suggest starting out with?
Thanks[/quote]
Don’t be afraid to start light with it, even a plate can be okay for day 1. But in general I think shooting for about 50% of your 1RM on real deads for 3 sets of 20 is a good goal to shot for you. You can use straps if you use a double overhand grip, which I prefer on the high rep sets. The cardio effect is pretty strong on this one and I think the isometric hold for the traps really helps train them to do the same thing in a regular deadlift.[/quote]
3 sets of 20 at half my regular DL!!! I’d be bed-ridden for sure the next day! How long did it take you to get there?
[quote]dj20 wrote:
I’ve heard RDL a couple of times so that is what I am kind of leaning towards.
What would be the best rep scheme for someone who has never done them? Also, how much weight would you suggest starting out with?
Thanks[/quote]
Don’t be afraid to start light with it, even a plate can be okay for day 1. But in general I think shooting for about 50% of your 1RM on real deads for 3 sets of 20 is a good goal to shot for you. You can use straps if you use a double overhand grip, which I prefer on the high rep sets. The cardio effect is pretty strong on this one and I think the isometric hold for the traps really helps train them to do the same thing in a regular deadlift.[/quote]
3 sets of 20 at half my regular DL!!! I’d be bed-ridden for sure the next day! How long did it take you to get there?[/quote]
That sounds crazy to me, too. I think I’ve got to try it. Sounds like it will build some massive hams.
[quote]dj20 wrote:
I’ve heard RDL a couple of times so that is what I am kind of leaning towards.
What would be the best rep scheme for someone who has never done them? Also, how much weight would you suggest starting out with?
Thanks[/quote]
Don’t be afraid to start light with it, even a plate can be okay for day 1. But in general I think shooting for about 50% of your 1RM on real deads for 3 sets of 20 is a good goal to shot for you. You can use straps if you use a double overhand grip, which I prefer on the high rep sets. The cardio effect is pretty strong on this one and I think the isometric hold for the traps really helps train them to do the same thing in a regular deadlift.[/quote]
Alright 3x20 it is. Thanks a lot Tim and everyone else for your input![/quote]
Just as a follow up I would do this for about 4-8 weeks, 1 time a week as part of a leg day, and then switch to something else. You can always come back to it after a month or two and repeat.
3 sets of 20 at half my regular DL!!! I’d be bed-ridden for sure the next day! How long did it take you to get there?[/quote]
I don’t remember exactly. I would usually program it for a month or two, starting with a weight I know I could do and then going up 10-20 lbs a week. I think my heaviest mesocycle with this I started with 275x20 and then about 6 weeks later did 365x20x3 (with straps). I think we were timing the rest too, not crazy short but 2-3 minutes, which really makes it brutal. Sometimes I will keep the rest quite short on the first few weeks since the weight is lighter and then increase the rest as the weight increases. I do have piss poor flexibility so my RDL only goes to about mid shin, I am not standing on a box and hitting the floor or anything like that.
Here is a video of the form I would suggest, and when doing high reps you want to go reasonably quickly. One might go a hair lower than he did in the video
3 sets of 20 at half my regular DL!!! I’d be bed-ridden for sure the next day! How long did it take you to get there?[/quote]
I don’t remember exactly. I would usually program it for a month or two, starting with a weight I know I could do and then going up 10-20 lbs a week. I think my heaviest mesocycle with this I started with 275x20 and then about 6 weeks later did 365x20x3 (with straps). I think we were timing the rest too, not crazy short but 2-3 minutes, which really makes it brutal. Sometimes I will keep the rest quite short on the first few weeks since the weight is lighter and then increase the rest as the weight increases. I do have piss poor flexibility so my RDL only goes to about mid shin, I am not standing on a box and hitting the floor or anything like that.[/quote]
What you’re describing at the end, with regards to range of motion, can’t be done with RDL. That would be a stiff-leg deadlift.
3 sets of 20 at half my regular DL!!! I’d be bed-ridden for sure the next day! How long did it take you to get there?[/quote]
I don’t remember exactly. I would usually program it for a month or two, starting with a weight I know I could do and then going up 10-20 lbs a week. I think my heaviest mesocycle with this I started with 275x20 and then about 6 weeks later did 365x20x3 (with straps). I think we were timing the rest too, not crazy short but 2-3 minutes, which really makes it brutal. Sometimes I will keep the rest quite short on the first few weeks since the weight is lighter and then increase the rest as the weight increases. I do have piss poor flexibility so my RDL only goes to about mid shin, I am not standing on a box and hitting the floor or anything like that.[/quote]
What you’re describing at the end, with regards to range of motion, can’t be done with RDL. That would be a stiff-leg deadlift.[/quote]
Lol you can certainly touch the floor with an RDL. Standing off a box? God no.
when I’m teaching someone, I have them stand aprox 18 inches from a wall,feet shoulder witdh apart, and with the legs just shy of being locked and back arched, learn to touch your but to the wall without bending legs, your hands will naturaly sort of slide down your legs. Learn this movement, it’s a sort of hinge, once you can do 20reps with a 50lb DB, move to the rack, I don’t know weather to call it a RDL or a stiffleg but it frys the post chain, most people can just touch a 45 to the floor and come up about 3\4 , aiming for sets of 15-20,this same form works with KB swings, not to hyjack, but we’ve had really good results with this exercise and form reminder, short of this deficit deads are awesome as well, goodluck
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
when I’m teaching someone, I have them stand aprox 18 inches from a wall,feet shoulder witdh apart, and with the legs just shy of being locked and back arched, learn to touch your but to the wall without bending legs, your hands will naturaly sort of slide down your legs. Learn this movement, it’s a sort of hinge, once you can do 20reps with a 50lb DB, move to the rack, I don’t know weather to call it a RDL or a stiffleg but it frys the post chain, most people can just touch a 45 to the floor and come up about 3\4 , aiming for sets of 15-20,this same form works with KB swings, not to hyjack, but we’ve had really good results with this exercise and form reminder, short of this deficit deads are awesome as well, goodluck[/quote]
from what I know(which is a little) the difference between a RDL and a stiff leg dead lift is that with a RDL you lock your lower back and the bar only goes down to knee level while a SLDL the bar can go all the way down to the feet… I actually like using them both but with the stiff leg dead your putting your back in a bad spot to use very much weight but with the RDL, if done right I have heard people doing in the 400+ range… To me the best part about the stiff leg is the awesome stretch you get in your upper hammy, good for speed development…
from what I know(which is a little) the difference between a RDL and a stiff leg dead lift is that with a RDL you lock your lower back and the bar only goes down to knee level while a SLDL the bar can go all the way down to the feet… I actually like using them both but with the stiff leg dead your putting your back in a bad spot to use very much weight but with the RDL, if done right I have heard people doing in the 400+ range… To me the best part about the stiff leg is the awesome stretch you get in your upper hammy, good for speed development…[/quote]
The difference between the 2 is that in the RDL the shin can’t move forward, it must stay vertical or shift slightly back at all times, however the knee can bend as much as you want by shoving your hips backward. With a stiff or straight legged deadlift, the leg must stay straight although it is often held in a “soft” position and not truly locked out. You are right in the idea that using that form gives more a stretch to the hams, although shoving your hips back should create quite a nice stretch as well. The ROM is determined by the flexibility of the lifter, in my experience less flexible people prefer RDL’s and more flexible people prefer stiff DL’s.
Your probably right, my version is more of a RDL, you stand with your back arched, and concentrate on moving your butt back, as you do this the bar will move downward, you focus on the streatch and constant tension, I like these after a heavy squat session, mabey suppersetted with some sort of hamstring curl. I’m funny that way, because after heavy deads, I like quad focus, like front squats, or 18 inch step ups.
So basicaly if my bodys up to it, heavy squats followed by post chain focus, than heavy deads followed by quad focus, on a 531 type template. The point I was trying to make last night after a couple pops, was to really learn to focus on moving the butt backwards, rather than thinking about moving the bar up and down. Goodluck
[quote]Caltene wrote:
lol…I remember you now, you’re the “cns burnout” guy. It’s not suprising that you have no clue what an RDL is.[/quote]
Yeah, Louie Simmons, Siff, and Zatsiorsky are clueless about fitness and sound so silly when they talk about managing neural fatigue, you’d have to be a fool to listen to anything they say.
If you would like to provide me with your operational definition of an RDL I would be happy to hear it
from what I know(which is a little) the difference between a RDL and a stiff leg dead lift is that with a RDL you lock your lower back and the bar only goes down to knee level while a SLDL the bar can go all the way down to the feet… I actually like using them both but with the stiff leg dead your putting your back in a bad spot to use very much weight but with the RDL, if done right I have heard people doing in the 400+ range… To me the best part about the stiff leg is the awesome stretch you get in your upper hammy, good for speed development…[/quote]
The difference between the 2 is that in the RDL the shin can’t move forward, it must stay vertical or shift slightly back at all times, however the knee can bend as much as you want by shoving your hips backward. With a stiff or straight legged deadlift, the leg must stay straight although it is often held in a “soft” position and not truly locked out. You are right in the idea that using that form gives more a stretch to the hams, although shoving your hips back should create quite a nice stretch as well. The ROM is determined by the flexibility of the lifter, in my experience less flexible people prefer RDL’s and more flexible people prefer stiff DL’s. [/quote]
Tim, would it also be correct in saying that a SLDL starts from the floor whereas an RDL starts with the bar at the thighs or does it make no difference? Thanks for your insights and the steady stream of awesome info man.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
Yeah, Louie Simmons, Siff, and Zatsiorsky are clueless about fitness and sound so silly when they talk about managing neural fatigue, you’d have to be a fool to listen to anything they say.
If you would like to provide me with your operational definition of an RDL I would be happy to hear it[/quote]
I absolutely fucking LOVE where this is going. Hell yeah.
Also, OP, why don’t you just go out and try a few different movements and see which one works, instead of asking strangers on the internet to tell you which one to use? Run your normal programming, whatever that may be, then add in/substitute a movement. Try it for six weeks. Then, change something. Anything. Any one thing.
Rinse and repeat for twenty years and you have found out what works.
Tim, would it also be correct in saying that a SLDL starts from the floor whereas an RDL starts with the bar at the thighs or does it make no difference? Thanks for your insights and the steady stream of awesome info man.
[/quote]
You could start a stiff legged deadlift on the floor but that is not how I would personally do it, especially as one started to lift heavier weights. With both Romanian and Stiff Legged deadlifts you should generally perform a conventional deadlift on the first rep, not count that rep, and then your starting position is at the top so the first motion is the lowering or eccentric phase. The big difference between the two is that in the SLDL the knee really needs to stay straight, whereas in the RDL your knee can bend as much as you want but the shin can’t travel forward at all.
