What is Charles Poliquin Talking About?

Training Bodybuilding
61

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Rational Gaze wrote:
Actually, do you think it might just be Poliquin’s way of saying that most of the Olympia competitors are using so much gear that there’s no point trying to look like them, while avoiding any fallout that would result from making such a statement.

That would be an even dumber statement. More than 90% of the population has no chance in hell of looking like them whether they used steroids or not. Steroids in and of themselves are not why Ronnie Coleman is that much farther ahead of most people as he was bigger than most of the people on this site in HIGH SCHOOL.

Most of the newbies here all act like they are “hard gainers”, “ectomorphs” or skinny fat “FFB’s” with weak genetics…yet they then focus on steroid use as if THAT is why they are making no progress and why others are growing faster???
[/quote]

Amen to that!

People need to step up to the plate at least before you go blaming shit on gear.

62

Well, I’ve built 19.75" arms by taking an almost diametrically opposed attitude from you–so the fuck what?! Again (as I guess you couldn’t–or most likely refuse to–gasp it) the majority of “bodybuilders” will NEVER put on trunks, shave down, tan, and get on stage. They, yes that means the “anyone else” you refer to, have interests in bodybuilding that transcend the purely aesthetic–period.

The problem is, if something doesn’t fit your approved category of “true” bodybuilding techniques, then NO SINGLE PERSON, according to you, should be interested in it if they are interested in bodybuilding. This strikes me as myopic and immature. There are MANY reasons to pursue bodybuilding, and T-Nation is the embodyment of the idea that you don’t have to pursue it only for aesthetic reasons.

By the way, it may not seem like it, but I actually have a great deal of respect for your bodybuilding knowledge. I read many of your posts and you seem to know a great deal–but not about interacting with people in a mature way; nor do you seem to grasp that many seemingly disparate techniques can enhance a give endeavour.

Crowbar

63

I know I’ve said it before, but someone needs to do a parody song on the woes, misery, and just plain hard luck of the “Hardgainer.”

I’d suggest a sad country song.

64

[quote]crowbar46 wrote:
Well, I’ve built 19.75" arms by taking an almost diametrically opposed attitude from you–so the fuck what?! Again (as I guess you couldn’t–or most likely refuse to–gasp it) the majority of “bodybuilders” will NEVER put on trunks, shave down, tan, and get on stage. They, yes that means the “anyone else” you refer to, have interests in bodybuilding that transcend the purely aesthetic–period.

The problem is, if something doesn’t fit your approved category of “true” bodybuilding techniques, then NO SINGLE PERSON, according to you, should be interested in it if they are interested in bodybuilding. This strikes me as myopic and immature. There are MANY reasons to pursue bodybuilding, and T-Nation is the embodyment of the idea that you don’t have to pursue it only for aesthetic reasons.

By the way, it may not seem like it, but I actually have a great deal of respect for your bodybuilding knowledge. I read many of your posts and you seem to know a great deal–but not about interacting with people in a mature way; nor do you seem to grasp that many seemingly disparate techniques can enhance a give endeavour.

Crowbar [/quote]

I’m sorry, but this entire waste of space you just threw up is pure bullshit. [quote]The problem is, if something doesn’t fit your approved category of “true” bodybuilding techniques, then NO SINGLE PERSON, according to you, should be interested in it if they are interested in bodybuilding.[/quote]

Please, show me where the above has EVER been written or even implied? I couldn’t care any less about whether you have 500 other goals besides bodybuilding. For you to imply that all of those things need to be shoe horned into the BODYBUILDING FORUM makes about as much sense as what you just wrote.

Most of us in this forum are not discussing competition dieting and training the majority of the time…so what are you talking about?

If some newbie comes up to me in the gym and asks how to get big, you are suggesting they need to be told that Charles Poliquin is who they need to look up??? REALLY?

Before I even go on any more of a tangent with you and whatever else you have dreamed up about what I have written, this thread was about yet another bullshit statement from CP. It gets thrown in a pile with the other 5 million bullshit statements he has made.

If people are still blindly following everything the man writes after all of that, they deserve what they get…especially if they are like many here seem to be as far as walking around without any clear and specific goals in their head of what they are really working for.

Most of the people on this site seem confused at best. They don’t know whether they want bigger arms or to be some type of triathlon super athlete who is so FUNCTIONAL they can stand on one foot with both arms carrying tiny cans of peas stretched out at 90 degrees while preparing for a double somersault onto a rubber ball.

They get told by one author that bodybuilding is evil. They get told by yet another that they need to diet down before they gain a pound of muscle…despite being 130lbs in the first place at 13% body fat.

Good for you and your “no picture attached” 19+" arms, but if you haven’t been paying attention, there aren’t very many making anywhere near that type of progress by worrying about Eastern European strength athletes.

65

I’ve never followed a Poliquin program and have made great gains.

I think I might have a special gene.

66

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I’ve never followed a Poliquin program and have made great gains.

I think I might have a special gene.[/quote]

Poliquin is French Canadian which, according to other non-French Canadians (even on this site!) means he is a rude asshole.

67

When I read that line in that article I immediately knew there would be discussion about it. In fact, I actually spent some time “thinking it over” in a kind of amazement. My first impression was ‘yeah right’ like many of you peeps.

But yeah, I was reading MSNBC article about that German boy and wow. This kids going to grow up and really look freakish, cartoon-ish even. More interesting than that however is the research that those scientists at John Hopkins and the parama company Wyeth are doing at creating a myostatin antibody.

With the medical advances and technological progressions we’re making right now those statements about having a commercial product available to the public in “the near future” don’t like like excitement inducing bullshit. We know the reasons for such research will be headlined by the parties for the purposes of finding cures for genetic disorders but the commercial prospect is going to be the real rocket fuel for propelling advances into this.

Looking at it from a non specific, vague perspective such a product would reveolutionise the bodybuilding industry. This shit is scary. They’d use this on soldiers, athletes, astronauts, fucken everybody. The best application of it would be to bulk livestock and for curing discorders but you know this stuff is going to spread like wild fire.

It all depends on shit though. The world may end in 2012 then what?

68

I’ve lost faith in a lot of what Poliquin says because of some of the bullshit lines he has spouted:

States that several IFBB pros have genetic anomalies as discussed here.
States that he rids men of hypogonadism and infertility (SREAL MEDICAL CONDITION) with training, nutrition, and supplementation.
States that he has a female client with thighs bigger than Platz’s in his prime.
States that he has a Strongman client that has thighs that make Ronnie’s look small.
States that he cured a friend’s wife of a food intolerance during pregnancy through vitamin supplementation.
States that Charlie Francis had Ben Johnson perform a 1 to 3 RM in the squat before races despite Charlie–the guy who fucking trained Ben up-close and personal–stating it never happened and that he would never have an athlete be fatigued or RISK SERIOUS INJURY before a VERY IMPORTANT event!
Explains that there are different types of human beings suitable for different training methods based on Eastern philosophy (eg, metal, wood, fire, etc). In explaining this, he wrote that Mike Mentzer is a genetic anomaly and perhaps hints that Mentzer was successful in bodybuilding because of steroid use masking his genetic weakness. This is bullshit! Mentzer was one of the best bodybuilders that ever lived and you don’t become one of the best that ever lived by relying on 'roids!

I can go on and on as to why I don’t like his writings anymore. Perhaps it’s because NO successful strength athletes and bodybuilders I’ve spoken with personally or followed through the media have ever trained as he advises.

And Poliquin doesn’t just write on esoteric STRENGTH training methods. He’s written articles AIMED at the bodybuilding world but apparently has never HIT A TARGET within that world, considering that bodybuilders don’t and will never train as he advises.

Here’s a typical “Poliquin style” workout for the chest and back (he ALWAYS has to write a routine with agonist-antagonist pairing; straight sets be damned; not fancy enough!):

A1) Bench press
A2) Chinups
B1) Incline dumbbell bench press
B2) Barbell rows

Tempo: 3-1-1 (or some shit like that)
Sets and reps: 4 x 8 (or sometimes he’ll get fancy and suggest something like wave loading: 6-1-6-1)
Rest period: 2 minutes

Here’s how a successful, REAL bodybuilder might set up his chest routine:

Incline bench press
Dumbbell bench press
Incline flies
Pec-deck flies

Tempo: Who pays attention or THINKS of this shit?
Reps: Anywhere from 6 to 15, depending on the bodybuilder and what he’s up to.
Rest period: When you feel ready.
Sets: 1 to 4 main sets per exercises (depends on the individual training style)

No bodybuilders fuck around with stuff like accumulation and intensification phases; they simply work hard most of the time and either schedule a “back off” week (Dorian did this about every 5th or 6th week; DC guys use a “cruise” period) or back off during particular workout if they feel subpar.

I’m still fucking amazed that people are trying to make rocket science out of bodybuilding. What amazes me more is that one of the most simple routines I’ve ever seen, the Doggcrapp method, actually has thousands and thousands and FUCKING THOUSANDS of pages all over the 'net dedicated to its interpretation!

I’m floored that a routine as basic as this …

Bench press
Shoulder press
Lat pulldown
Deadlift
Tricep extension

Sets and reps: DC-rest-pause fashion or straight sets

… has to have thousands of pages dedicated to its interpretation even when its creator, Dante, says that his own creation isn’t that god-damn hard to follow. Might be DIFFICULT in implementation, but certainly not difficult in instruction! And yet we see poeple talking and talking and talking… and writing and writing and writing!

Actually, I don’t know where the fuck I’m going with this now. So I’m stopping! Talk of Koresh… I mean Charles Poliquin… makes me annoyed sometimes.

69

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

Poliquin is French Canadian which, according to other non-French Canadians (even on this site!) means he is a rude asshole.[/quote]

You don’t need to be French Canadian to know he’s rather dry. Anyone who has met him and didn’t leave with fellatio lines round the mouth would agree.

Which is kinda my point. When you get to see his personality in person, you get used to comments such as “13 out of the top 20 bodybuilders…” and " i had a female who made Tom Platz legs look small". It’s all part of his humour. Nothing to drop your bundle over.

70

With so many BS artists in this forum and industry, the only thing you can do is to read up on coaches out that spit out the least amount. I don’t take everything CP says as ultimate truths but for my time and effort I sure as hell would read up on him, apply his techniques, and see for yourself. Sounds like a lot of people spend more time typing on this forum then actually putting his theories to the test.

71

[quote]grizzle wrote:
With so many BS artists in this forum and industry, the only thing you can do is to read up on coaches out that spit out the least amount. I don’t take everything CP says as ultimate truths but for my time and effort I sure as hell would read up on him, apply his techniques, and see for yourself. Sounds like a lot of people spend more time typing on this forum then actually putting his theories to the test.[/quote]

Gee, you’re right because I know I personally don’t give a shit about his “theories” at all, so yes, I guess I do spend more time typing than worrying about that.

Please post pictures so we can see what CP built on you.

72

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
I’ve never followed a Poliquin program and have made great gains.

I think I might have a special gene.

Poliquin is French Canadian which, according to other non-French Canadians (even on this site!) means he is a rude asshole.[/quote]

Let’s not make generalzation based on geographic and social origin, California Boy. CP can be rude and arrogant at times, but i’d hardly say it has anything to do with his french-canadian roots…unless you’re implying that CT is a rude asshole too?

73

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
I’ve never followed a Poliquin program and have made great gains.

I think I might have a special gene.

Poliquin is French Canadian which, according to other non-French Canadians (even on this site!) means he is a rude asshole.[/quote]

Yeah…yeah that pretty much sums it up. /Lives in Alberta.
(yeah yeah I’m kidding…)

Anyway, a couple thoughts on some stuff going on in here

-Myostatin isn’t the only “magic” gene regarding muscle growth. There are a ton of different genes, many related to different enzyme isoforms that support increased performance in strength vs endurance sports.
Also, realize the olympia is, well the olympia. It draws on a population base of at least a billion people, so is it really so hard to think that 20 of the top level (in terms of hypertrophy ability) would have some genetic advantages?

  • As for the whole “we’re anaerobic animals” argument, I’ve got no clue where that came from or why he says it. Almost everything in our physiology is built to sustain aerobic activity as efficiently as possible, with energy for a few short sprints here and there.
    Couple examples:
  • Type 2b muscle fibers…yeah there’s a strong body of research suggesting we don’t have any. Our “top” fibre in terms of power output is like the 2dx isoform. Many other animals have 2b however, allowing higher force outputs.
  • Muscle hyperplasia: Cats can do it. We can’t. Sucks, but it puts a limit on hypertrophy that other animals don’t have
  • Acid Tolerance. Compared to other animals (such as dogs) we really can’t tolerate much drop in PH before we need to reduce intensity.
75

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I kinda wanna pile on here just for fun.[/quote]

Now, if he said, “The darker the berry, the sweeter the juice!” would ya at least crack a smile?

76

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Most of the people on this site seem confused at best. They don’t know whether they want bigger arms or to be some type of triathlon super athlete who is so FUNCTIONAL they can stand on one foot with both arms carrying tiny cans of peas stretched out at 90 degrees while preparing for a double somersault onto a rubber ball.

[/quote]

All right dude - that really made me laugh hard.

Lol at “tiny cans of peas”.

77

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
I’ve never followed a Poliquin program and have made great gains.

I think I might have a special gene.

Poliquin is French Canadian which, according to other non-French Canadians (even on this site!) means he is a rude asshole.[/quote]

I’m French Canadian too and I believe that I’m the furthest thing away from being an asshole :slight_smile:

Yes Charles is mostly working with athletes. BUT he has worked with some IFBB pros that were quite successful and Milos is one of his closest friend and both share a lot of info. So, yeah, Charles knows a thing or two about bodybuilding!

I’m not saying that the myostatin thing is true, might be one of those things that you hear through the branches from people in the know and relay the information without checking it out first.

78

I realize this isn’t really on topic of Polquin’s comments about the myostatin gene, but I do remember reading something Polquin wrote about sleep and erections - commenting to the effect that you should have an incredibly hard erection every time you wake up. However, the only phase of sleep where men should be having erections is REM - so if you don’t wake up from REM sleep, why should you have an erection?

Honestly, I don’t think Polquin is an expert on genetics or sleep science. He’s just a coach - granted, he’s a great coach. I’d listen to him about training, but not so much about genetics.

79

On Poliquin and training athletes- I am always suspicious of people who trot out a famous athlete and say “Look what I did!”. A good friend and lifting partner has worked with a great number of pro athletes and he never does this.

I asked him at one point what a certain athlete does to achieve such great speed and what he does to help. His response was “nothing special.”. And “Sometimes it’s best to just let them do what they do. The last thing you want to do as a trainer is fuck up a world class athlete. It requires some humility to acknowledge that what they have accomplished has nothing to do with you.”

It seems that the mistake that the Poliquins and Cheks of the world have made is to believe that they are somehow responsible for the accomplishment of an athlete.

Someone needs to reintroduce them to the cart/horse relationship, and hope that they get it right at some point.

80

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
On Poliquin and training athletes- I am always suspicious of people who trot out a famous athlete and say “Look what I did!”. A good friend and lifting partner has worked with a great number of pro athletes and he never does this.

I asked him at one point what a certain athlete does to achieve such great speed and what he does to help. His response was “nothing special.”. And “Sometimes it’s best to just let them do what they do. The last thing you want to do as a trainer is fuck up a world class athlete. It requires some humility to acknowledge that what they have accomplished has nothing to do with you.”

It seems that the mistake that the Poliquins and Cheks of the world have made is to believe that they are somehow responsible for the accomplishment of an athlete.

Someone needs to reintroduce them to the cart/horse relationship, and hope that they get it right at some point.

[/quote]

That right there is why I respect CT.