What is Bodybuilding to T-Nation?

Training
81

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Body “building” is gaining muscle. Losing fat isn’t building, just revealing what has been built. So why can’t someone who builds muscle be a bodybuilder?[/quote]

Bodybuilding is the act of creating a better body/physique. Gaining/Holding excess fat is not creating a better body/physique.[/quote]

I agree but where in my post did I write about putting on fat? I said building muscle. Obviously the competing/dieting bodybuilders deserve the most respect, but let’s think about what the word “building” means. When you build a brick wall, you add to it, do you not?[/quote]

So architecture is stacking bricks, gotcha.

82

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Body “building” is gaining muscle. Losing fat isn’t building, just revealing what has been built. So why can’t someone who builds muscle be a bodybuilder?[/quote]

Bodybuilding is the act of creating a better body/physique. Gaining/Holding excess fat is not creating a better body/physique.[/quote]

I agree but where in my post did I write about putting on fat? I said building muscle. Obviously the competing/dieting bodybuilders deserve the most respect, but let’s think about what the word “building” means. When you build a brick wall, you add to it, do you not?[/quote]

you didnt say anything about putting on fat but you did dismiss the fat loss aspect of bodybuilding with your first post.

Bodybuilding is a combination of building muscle and losing fat. You cant have one without the other (kinda like love and marriage)[/quote]

I didn’t dismiss it. I wrote that it reveals the muscle. I’m referring to the “building” aspect, not the “sculpting”. I don’t care one way or the other. I do think it is strange to refrain from calling someone a bodybuilder when he has purposefully built a lot of muscle with the intent of having bigger muscles.

83

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Body “building” is gaining muscle. Losing fat isn’t building, just revealing what has been built. So why can’t someone who builds muscle be a bodybuilder?[/quote]

Bodybuilding is the act of creating a better body/physique. Gaining/Holding excess fat is not creating a better body/physique.[/quote]

I agree but where in my post did I write about putting on fat? I said building muscle. Obviously the competing/dieting bodybuilders deserve the most respect, but let’s think about what the word “building” means. When you build a brick wall, you add to it, do you not?[/quote]

So architecture is stacking bricks, gotcha.

This is worse than Roe vs. Wade.
[/quote]

84

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
I didn’t dismiss it. I wrote that it reveals the muscle. I’m referring to the “building” aspect, not the “sculpting”. I don’t care one way or the other. I do think it is strange to refrain from calling someone a bodybuilder when he has purposefully built a lot of muscle with the intent of having bigger muscles.[/quote]

Gaining muscle and bodybuilding are very two different things.
Is Adrian Peterson a bodybuilder? Is Reggie Bush a bodybuilder? Is Michael Pittman a bodybuilder?

85

^^Pittmans arms are unreal! Him and David Boston had some of the biggest guns in the league.

86

I mean look at those arms. On a wide receiver? Are you kidding me?

EDIT: Just googled Michael Pittman photos and one of the first ones to pop up was in a “Best Sports Physique” thread on T-Nation from 5 or 6 years ago… one of the first 5 posts in that thread was Prof X talking about David Boston’s huge arms… he had huge arms.

87

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^Pittmans arms are unreal! Him and David Boston had some of the biggest guns in the league.[/quote]

David Boston lifted for looks also though.

Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people. Jumping on stage won’t change that because I have seen a lot of dudes competing who were not impressive at all on even a “serious gym-goer” level so obviously that can not be the primary criteria.

And seriously, if you are replying just to throw a sideways insult at another poster, wow. Talk about original.

Context is everything…and most people on the planet would call the guy with muscles bigger than even most NFL players a “bodybuilder” if he was seen in the gym and was in decent shape.

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.

88

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
I didn’t dismiss it. I wrote that it reveals the muscle. I’m referring to the “building” aspect, not the “sculpting”. I don’t care one way or the other. I do think it is strange to refrain from calling someone a bodybuilder when he has purposefully built a lot of muscle with the intent of having bigger muscles.[/quote]

Gaining muscle and bodybuilding are very two different things.
Is Adrian Peterson a bodybuilder? Is Reggie Bush a bodybuilder? Is Michael Pittman a bodybuilder?[/quote]

Well not by profession but they have clearly built their bodies. This sure turned out to be a hot topic.

89

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.

90

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would any grown man care what some other grown man calls himself unless he was absolutely misrepresenting whatever he was claiming?

It is cool to see what others think THEMSELVES about what they call THEMSELVES.

It is strange to see others concerned about what someone else can call themselves.
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares what someone wants to call themselves. Just a little discussion on what is and isn’t a bodybuilder. Someone that hasn’t experienced the grueling process of dieting for a competetion and everything else that goes along with it is not a bodybuilder, plain and simple.

Someone calling themselves a bodybuilder when they haven’t done so IS misrepresenting themselves. When someone asks and actual bodybuilder how to diet down for a show or what tips they have on cometing, they should be able to have an answer based upon their experiences.[/quote]
So, in this view, if someone builds a world class physique but does not compete he is not a bodybuilder. Can there not be a non-competitive bodybuilder?

91

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would any grown man care what some other grown man calls himself unless he was absolutely misrepresenting whatever he was claiming?

It is cool to see what others think THEMSELVES about what they call THEMSELVES.

It is strange to see others concerned about what someone else can call themselves.
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares what someone wants to call themselves. Just a little discussion on what is and isn’t a bodybuilder. Someone that hasn’t experienced the grueling process of dieting for a competetion and everything else that goes along with it is not a bodybuilder, plain and simple.

Someone calling themselves a bodybuilder when they haven’t done so IS misrepresenting themselves. When someone asks and actual bodybuilder how to diet down for a show or what tips they have on cometing, they should be able to have an answer based upon their experiences.[/quote]
So, in this view, if someone builds a world class physique but does not compete he is not a bodybuilder. Can there not be a non-competitive bodybuilder?[/quote]

Oh, there can. Some just don’t want there to be…which is strange.

92

This is probably a good time to jump in.

Great replies so far and thanks for keeping the personal stuff at bay.

I started this thread because I was talking to an older guy in the gym the other day. He’s pushing 70 and is there just about every day lifting something and keeping in shape. He’s always interested in the weights we are lifting and asks questions.

He referred to us (guy I train with and me) as “bodybuilders”. The guy I train with is a basketball player and looks like one. I just kind of laughed and said "Nah, I’m not a bodybuilder, I just want to get big and lift as much as I can, blah blah, maybe do a PL meet, blah blah, "

I’ve had that conversation with many people when the subject comes up and it occurred to me that what I consider bodybuilding and a bodybuilder is not what a regular person would consider it.

So, given that there is a collection of people who lift weights here, thought it would be interesting to see the different perspectives.

If you’re 155 going for 250, are you bodybuilding?
Is MegaNewb bodybuilding?
Is MauraderMeat bodybuilding?

If you typically are ‘powerlifting’, are you in some respect ‘bodybuilding’ or are they mutually exclusive? I think this question posed 30 years ago would have yielded a different set of answers.

So, what are different ways one might endeavor to ‘bodybuild’? Bulk/cut? Slow gain? High reps? Low reps? Volume? Frequency? Jumping? Curling? “Powerlifting”? Is a competitive powerlifter who trains for asthetic a bodybuilder?

For the record, I don’t consider myself a “bodybuilder” per se. My goal? Get big, get as strong as possible. Leanness takes a back seat for now. Call it a “5 year plan”. I want as much bang for the buck in 5 years before I start going for leanness as a primary goal. I can see the forest through the trees. I routinely work on projects that span years for completion and some of those years shit ain’t pretty. You have to be able to see the end product in your mind’s eye.

Does that mean I’m bodybuilding? I don’t know. It just is what it is.

Does anyone’s definition of “bodybuilding” preclude you from calling yourself a bodybuilder or change the way you train or see yourself? I should hope not.

So, in closing, fuck all of you… :wink:

93

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
This is probably a good time to jump in.

Great replies so far and thanks for keeping the personal stuff at bay.

I started this thread because I was talking to an older guy in the gym the other day. He’s pushing 70 and is there just about every day lifting something and keeping in shape. He’s always interested in the weights we are lifting and asks questions.

He referred to us (guy I train with and me) as “bodybuilders”. The guy I train with is a basketball player and looks like one. I just kind of laughed and said "Nah, I’m not a bodybuilder, I just want to get big and lift as much as I can, blah blah, maybe do a PL meet, blah blah, "

I’ve had that conversation with many people when the subject comes up and it occurred to me that what I consider bodybuilding and a bodybuilder is not what a regular person would consider it.

So, given that there is a collection of people who lift weights here, thought it would be interesting to see the different perspectives.

If you’re 155 going for 250, are you bodybuilding?
Is MegaNewb bodybuilding?
Is MauraderMeat bodybuilding?

If you typically are ‘powerlifting’, are you in some respect ‘bodybuilding’ or are they mutually exclusive? I think this question posed 30 years ago would have yielded a different set of answers.

So, what are different ways one might endeavor to ‘bodybuild’? Bulk/cut? Slow gain? High reps? Low reps? Volume? Frequency? Jumping? Curling? “Powerlifting”? Is a competitive powerlifter who trains for asthetic a bodybuilder?

For the record, I don’t consider myself a “bodybuilder” per se. My goal? Get big, get as strong as possible. Leanness takes a back seat for now. Call it a “5 year plan”. I want as much bang for the buck in 5 years before I start going for leanness as a primary goal. I can see the forest through the trees. I routinely work on projects that span years for completion and some of those years shit ain’t pretty. You have to be able to see the end product in your mind’s eye.

Does that mean I’m bodybuilding? I don’t know. It just is what it is.

Does anyone’s definition of “bodybuilding” preclude you from calling yourself a bodybuilder or change the way you train or see yourself? I should hope not.

So, in closing, fuck all of you… :wink:

[/quote]

LOL…good post

94

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would any grown man care what some other grown man calls himself unless he was absolutely misrepresenting whatever he was claiming?

It is cool to see what others think THEMSELVES about what they call THEMSELVES.

It is strange to see others concerned about what someone else can call themselves.
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares what someone wants to call themselves. Just a little discussion on what is and isn’t a bodybuilder. Someone that hasn’t experienced the grueling process of dieting for a competetion and everything else that goes along with it is not a bodybuilder, plain and simple.

Someone calling themselves a bodybuilder when they haven’t done so IS misrepresenting themselves. When someone asks and actual bodybuilder how to diet down for a show or what tips they have on cometing, they should be able to have an answer based upon their experiences.[/quote]
So, in this view, if someone builds a world class physique but does not compete he is not a bodybuilder. Can there not be a non-competitive bodybuilder?[/quote]

Oh, there can. Some just don’t want there to be…which is strange.[/quote]

If someone can throw 100 mph but decides not to play baseball, are they a baseball player? No.

95

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is.

96

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
A number of people leave this website because there is NOTHING here for NPC competitors or anyone interested in the enhanced route. The steroid forum is a barely worth noting now, and the perma bulk attitude of this forum is just filled with fail, but whenever an alternative to that is suggested it gets attacked.

People serious about competing will never stick around here unless they’ve already been here for years and “grew up” here/like a good number of the posters. The articles/attitude of T-Nation does not help this either. If you don’t like the term “recreational” sorry, but that’s the main audience/demographic of this forum nowadays.[/quote]

Way. do you have a pic of yourself or any internet pics that show about where you would think someone should end a bulk (BF wise) and start to clean up and tighten up for a bit? Jw wondering where you cut things off?

Also if i remeber correctly you dont get PMs or cant reply?[/quote]

Ebombs current off season condition is what I consider optimal. People like to forget about this thing, it’s kinda of important, and it’s called insulin sensitivity,…heard of it? lol.

Almost without exception, the leaner you are the more sensitive you are, and the fatter you are, the less. What this means is the fatter you get the more difficult it will be to add muscle without gaining even more and more fat. It’s diminishing returns. There is absolutely no reason to carry around excessive amounts of bodyfat assuming you’ll add muscle faster…it doesn’t work that way, sorry guys.

Do you know any natural competitors who blow up in the off season? Why not? probably b/c it doesn’t do anything beneficial, it just makes the dieting process more of a pain in the ass.

If you never plan on being lean and just want to be a big, strong guy, then by all means…perma bulk to your hearts desire.

97

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would any grown man care what some other grown man calls himself unless he was absolutely misrepresenting whatever he was claiming?

It is cool to see what others think THEMSELVES about what they call THEMSELVES.

It is strange to see others concerned about what someone else can call themselves.
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares what someone wants to call themselves. Just a little discussion on what is and isn’t a bodybuilder. Someone that hasn’t experienced the grueling process of dieting for a competetion and everything else that goes along with it is not a bodybuilder, plain and simple.

Someone calling themselves a bodybuilder when they haven’t done so IS misrepresenting themselves. When someone asks and actual bodybuilder how to diet down for a show or what tips they have on cometing, they should be able to have an answer based upon their experiences.[/quote]
So, in this view, if someone builds a world class physique but does not compete he is not a bodybuilder. Can there not be a non-competitive bodybuilder?[/quote]

Oh, there can. Some just don’t want there to be…which is strange.[/quote]

If someone can throw 100 mph but decides not to play baseball, are they a baseball player? No. [/quote]

They would be a recreational baseball player with great stats. If someone spends years making themselves look like a bodybuilder, they can’t call themselves a “non-competitive bodybuilder”…and your reasoning is “because people who throw fastballs can’t call themselves baseball players”?

Dude, why would you care if the guy looks like a bodybuilder?

98

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]

By the same token, a large bodybuilder (one who has competed) might get asked if he’s a football player. He’s not going to answer “Yes” just because he’s in a flag football league and played in High School.

99

My take is that it depends on your goals.

If you are mainly trying to get bigger muscles and look better then to me you are a bodybuilder. If your main goal is more muscular size, you’re a bodybuilder. Zyzz was a bodybuilder but never competed. Lots of people are “bodybuilding” with no intention of ever stepping on stage; their primary goal is just looking better and getting bigger.

My primary goal is performance so I don’t call myself a bodybuilder, but I use a lot of bodybuilding methodology. But it’s like, Ronnie Coleman used a lot of powerlifting methodology (we’ve all seen those low rep deadlifts) but his PRIMARY goal was getting huge and ripped, so he was a bodybuilder.

Competing doesn’t necessarily make you a bodybuilder. But it can make you a COMPETITIVE bodybuilder.

This way the words are useful and meaningful. If someone says they are a bodybuilder then you know their main goal is getting more muscular and looking better. Doesn’t mean they don’t care about strength or performance or whatever… Same goes for all the other labels. They’re useful descriptors but they don’t tell the whole story.

I don’t like the way some people seem so set on putting up artificial divisions… I prefer to look for commonalities rather than differences. Pretty much all of us here want to get bigger and look better, even if that isn’t our main focus. Some are bodybuilders, some powerlifters, some gym rats but we all share at least some training elements and we all look just as weird to regular people.

We all lift weights and battle the metal.

That’s why it is not a “brotherhood of bodybuilders” or a “brotherhood of powerlifters” but a Brotherhood of IRON.

100

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
My take is that it depends on your goals.

If you are mainly trying to get bigger muscles and look better then you are a bodybuilder. If your main goal is more muscular size, you’re a bodybuilder. Zyzz was a bodybuilder but never competed. Lots of people are “bodybuilding” with no intention of ever stepping on stage; their primary goal is just looking better and getting bigger.

My primary goal is performance so I don’t call myself a bodybuilder, but I use a lot of bodybuilding methodology. But it’s like, Ronnie Coleman used a lot of powerlifting methodology (we’ve all seen those low rep deadlifts) but his PRIMARY goal was getting huge and ripped, so he was a bodybuilder.

Competing doesn’t necessarily make you a bodybuilder. But it can make you a COMPETITIVE bodybuilder.

This way the words are useful and meaningful. If someone says they are a bodybuilder then you know their main goal is getting more muscular and looking better. Doesn’t mean they don’t care about strength or performance or whatever… Same goes for all the other labels. They’re useful descriptors but they don’t tell the whole story.

I don’t like the way some people seem so set on putting up artificial divisions… I prefer to look for commonalities rather than differences. Pretty much all of us here want to get bigger and look better, even if that isn’t our main focus. Some are bodybuilders, some powerlifters, some gym rats but we all share at least some training elements and we all look just as weird to regular people.

We all lift weights and battle the metal.

That’s why it is not a “brotherhood of bodybuilders” or a “brotherhood of powerlifters” but a Brotherhood of IRON. [/quote]

Good post.

I don’t understand the boundaries being thrown up and responded to it before.