What is Bodybuilding to T-Nation?

Training
101

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
This is probably a good time to jump in.

Great replies so far and thanks for keeping the personal stuff at bay.

I started this thread because I was talking to an older guy in the gym the other day. He’s pushing 70 and is there just about every day lifting something and keeping in shape. He’s always interested in the weights we are lifting and asks questions.

He referred to us (guy I train with and me) as “bodybuilders”. The guy I train with is a basketball player and looks like one. I just kind of laughed and said "Nah, I’m not a bodybuilder, I just want to get big and lift as much as I can, blah blah, maybe do a PL meet, blah blah, "

I’ve had that conversation with many people when the subject comes up and it occurred to me that what I consider bodybuilding and a bodybuilder is not what a regular person would consider it.

So, given that there is a collection of people who lift weights here, thought it would be interesting to see the different perspectives.

If you’re 155 going for 250, are you bodybuilding?
Is MegaNewb bodybuilding?
Is MauraderMeat bodybuilding?

If you typically are ‘powerlifting’, are you in some respect ‘bodybuilding’ or are they mutually exclusive? I think this question posed 30 years ago would have yielded a different set of answers.

So, what are different ways one might endeavor to ‘bodybuild’? Bulk/cut? Slow gain? High reps? Low reps? Volume? Frequency? Jumping? Curling? “Powerlifting”? Is a competitive powerlifter who trains for asthetic a bodybuilder?

For the record, I don’t consider myself a “bodybuilder” per se. My goal? Get big, get as strong as possible. Leanness takes a back seat for now. Call it a “5 year plan”. I want as much bang for the buck in 5 years before I start going for leanness as a primary goal. I can see the forest through the trees. I routinely work on projects that span years for completion and some of those years shit ain’t pretty. You have to be able to see the end product in your mind’s eye.

Does that mean I’m bodybuilding? I don’t know. It just is what it is.

Does anyone’s definition of “bodybuilding” preclude you from calling yourself a bodybuilder or change the way you train or see yourself? I should hope not.

So, in closing, fuck all of you… :wink:

[/quote]

You can describe anyone who is training to shape or increase the size of their muscles a bodybuilder per se but for those who are actually partaking in the sport (another discussion right there) they would have a more refined view of what it entails to be an actual bodybuilder.

Name a bodybuilder off the top of your head… now if you are seriously pursuing the same goal as the one they have achieved then consider yourself a bodybuilder. This of course involves gaining muscle aesthetically, dieting down for competition, participating in competition then improving and building upon those results.

That old fella you spoke with probably calls every person with big biceps a bodybuilder becsaue that is likely his only point of reference. I am not knocking anyones opinion here nor am I downplaying all the hardwork they put in in the gym but ask any IFBB judge and he or she will likely have a very strict opinion on what constitutes a bodybuilder. The rest of us are just body building…

102

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

That old fella you spoke with probably calls every person with big biceps a bodybuilder becsaue that is likely his only point of reference. [/quote]

He actually competed in PL and BB meets in the early 70’s.

103

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]
I can be more than one thing at the same time. Husband, father, businessman and recreational bodybuilder.

104

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]
I can be more than one thing at the same time. Husband, father, businessman and recreational bodybuilder.[/quote]

A recreational baseball player actually competes in the sport of baseball against other competitors. They actually go on the field and play nine innings and one team wins and one loses.

How can you be a recreational bodybuilder without actually competing in the sport? Someone who builds their body without ever competing is the same as someone who goes to the batting cages and plays catch with their friends but doesn’t actually play the game itself and compete against others. Your missing a major part of the sport.

105

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]
I can be more than one thing at the same time. Husband, father, businessman and recreational bodybuilder.[/quote]

A recreational baseball player actually competes in the sport of baseball against other competitors. They actually go on the field and play nine innings and one team wins and one loses.

How can you be a recreational bodybuilder without actually competing in the sport? Someone who builds their body without ever competing is the same as someone who goes to the batting cages and plays catch with their friends but doesn’t actually play the game itself and compete against others. Your missing a major part of the sport. [/quote]

…OR, you got the most important part right if you LOOK LIKE ONE.

If someone spends decades to look like a superhero and they actually pull it off, I am certainly not going to tell them they can’t call themselves a “noncompetitive bodybuilder”…or simply “bodybuilder”.

In fact, I can’t see a reason for it to concern anyone at all unless the person concerned is just trying to bring someone else down for some reason.

My usual response to, “hey, you’re a bodybuilder?” is “I try to be”.

106

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why would any grown man care what some other grown man calls himself unless he was absolutely misrepresenting whatever he was claiming?

It is cool to see what others think THEMSELVES about what they call THEMSELVES.

It is strange to see others concerned about what someone else can call themselves.
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares what someone wants to call themselves. Just a little discussion on what is and isn’t a bodybuilder. Someone that hasn’t experienced the grueling process of dieting for a competetion and everything else that goes along with it is not a bodybuilder, plain and simple.

Someone calling themselves a bodybuilder when they haven’t done so IS misrepresenting themselves. When someone asks and actual bodybuilder how to diet down for a show or what tips they have on cometing, they should be able to have an answer based upon their experiences.[/quote]
So, in this view, if someone builds a world class physique but does not compete he is not a bodybuilder. Can there not be a non-competitive bodybuilder?[/quote]

Oh, there can. Some just don’t want there to be…which is strange.[/quote]

If someone can throw 100 mph but decides not to play baseball, are they a baseball player? No. [/quote]

They would be a recreational baseball player with great stats. If someone spends years making themselves look like a bodybuilder, they can’t call themselves a “non-competitive bodybuilder”…and your reasoning is “because people who throw fastballs can’t call themselves baseball players”?[/quote]

No, they would be someone that can throw a baseball really fast. How can they be a recreational baseball player without actually playing game itself?

[quote]
Dude, why would you care if the guy looks like a bodybuilder?[/quote]

I actually laughed here. I’m still laughing.

107

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[/quote]

I must have missed the joke.

You haven’t explained why you would care if a guy who looks like a bodybuilder calls himself one.

You care a bit much for some reason.

108

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]
I can be more than one thing at the same time. Husband, father, businessman and recreational bodybuilder.[/quote]

A recreational baseball player actually competes in the sport of baseball against other competitors. They actually go on the field and play nine innings and one team wins and one loses.

How can you be a recreational bodybuilder without actually competing in the sport? Someone who builds their body without ever competing is the same as someone who goes to the batting cages and plays catch with their friends but doesn’t actually play the game itself and compete against others. Your missing a major part of the sport. [/quote]
First, I would like to say thanks for discussing this respectfully. It is my view that a person can participate in a sport at a very serious level without actually competing against others.

109

Cool discussion going on. I guess I’ll add my 2 cents.

When it comes to BBing, PLing, Oly lifting, Highland Games, etc… What makes each one of us fit into any one of the categories is the primary emphasis of the goal we are trying to reach. There is obviously going to be some overlap to varying degrees, and this will change with every individual lifter.

I think a BBer is anyone who trains/eats with the PRIMARY emphasis to be aesthetic. A Power Liter trains/eats with the Primary emphasis to be increasing the 3 competition lefts. But that doesnt mean a BBer doesnt want to rip 500 pounds off the floor, and it doesnt mean a power lifter doesnt think its cool to have a big, thick back and traps.

Did Dave Tate give 2 shits about having washboard abs and a bicep peak during his competitive PL career? Very doubtful… But I bet he flexed in the mirror at least once during those years.

Did Arnold focus every day on increasing his technique in the Camber Toss? No… But I bet he wouldn’t mind being able to chuck that piece of wood a few yards.

The Iron Game is really a big Venn Diagram with lots and lots of crossover and blurred lines, and each of us has our own individual mash up of qualities we want to train, but its the Primary focus that “defines” what we do in the gym and in the kitchen.

Me? I’m certainly not the biggest guy round these parts, but I’m damn sure a body builder. That doesnt mean I dont want a big squat and wouldnt mind being able to Farmers Walk a few hundred pounds though.

110

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

That old fella you spoke with probably calls every person with big biceps a bodybuilder becsaue that is likely his only point of reference. [/quote]

He actually competed in PL and BB meets in the early 70’s. [/quote]

LOL well that blows my shit straight outa the water!

He was probably a very bad PL & BB anyway, one of those pasty, crazy looking guys with thick rimmed glasses and sunken eyes that turns up clutching a plastic bag telling everyone he’s goin to compete…

My point is / was using normal people as a qualifier as to what constitutes a bodybuilder is wrong because they wouldnt know their arses from their elbows as far as bodybuilding is concerned - this was a residual point from another post previous to yours but you get my point (I get yours)

111

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Cool discussion going on. I guess I’ll add my 2 cents.

When it comes to BBing, PLing, Oly lifting, Highland Games, etc… What makes each one of us fit into any one of the categories is the primary emphasis of the goal we are trying to reach. There is obviously going to be some overlap to varying degrees, and this will change with every individual lifter.

I think a BBer is anyone who trains/eats with the PRIMARY emphasis to be aesthetic. A Power Liter trains/eats with the Primary emphasis to be increasing the 3 competition lefts. But that doesnt mean a BBer doesnt want to rip 500 pounds off the floor, and it doesnt mean a power lifter doesnt think its cool to have a big, thick back and traps.

Did Dave Tate give 2 shits about having washboard abs and a bicep peak during his competitive PL career? Very doubtful… But I bet he flexed in the mirror at least once during those years.

Did Arnold focus every day on increasing his technique in the Camber Toss? No… But I bet he wouldn’t mind being able to chuck that piece of wood a few yards.

The Iron Game is really a big Venn Diagram with lots and lots of crossover and blurred lines, and each of us has our own individual mash up of qualities we want to train, but its the Primary focus that “defines” what we do in the gym and in the kitchen.

Me? I’m certainly not the biggest guy round these parts, but I’m damn sure a body builder. That doesnt mean I dont want a big squat and wouldnt mind being able to Farmers Walk a few hundred pounds though.[/quote]

Great post.

112

Bodybuilding on T-Nation is:

10000 “Bro’s” who want to get “Swole”, and 3 or 4 actual competitors.

113

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[/quote]

I must have missed the joke.

You haven’t explained why you would care if a guy who looks like a bodybuilder calls himself one.

You care a bit much for some reason.[/quote]

You are the one here concerned about what people look like. I’m concerned with what they actually are. If someone wants to misrepresnt themselves as a bodybuilder just because they look like one to the average joe that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean they are one.

None of my comments have been personal, but you seem to be taking them that way.

114

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

How can you be a recreational bodybuilder without actually competing in the sport? Someone who builds their body without ever competing is the same as someone who goes to the batting cages and plays catch with their friends but doesn’t actually play the game itself and compete against others. Your missing a major part of the sport. [/quote]

See I would think all the things leading up to the competition define the “sport” part. The actual standing around on stage part is akin to a beauty pageant. Now I’m not saying that being able to pose properly or hold muscle contractions for the better part of a minute is bullshit and not tough, it is, but…

You don’t build muscle on stage, nor do you diet down to competition levels of bodyfat onstage - you do all that leading up to the contest. The contest is the end result of all the work that goes into looking like that.

So, if you build a solid, muscular physique and get yourself conditioned then I’d say you’re a bodybuilder - whether you ever step onstage or not. I just wouldn’t call you a “competition” bodybuilder.

Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion, and in no way reflects on anyone else. I am aware that I am not a bodybuilder, but a fat shit who trains by pushing an ice cream truck up a hill and then devouring the contents at the top. Carry on… : )

115

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ground control wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]
I can be more than one thing at the same time. Husband, father, businessman and recreational bodybuilder.[/quote]

A recreational baseball player actually competes in the sport of baseball against other competitors. They actually go on the field and play nine innings and one team wins and one loses.

How can you be a recreational bodybuilder without actually competing in the sport? Someone who builds their body without ever competing is the same as someone who goes to the batting cages and plays catch with their friends but doesn’t actually play the game itself and compete against others. Your missing a major part of the sport. [/quote]
First, I would like to say thanks for discussing this respectfully. It is my view that a person can participate in a sport at a very serious level without actually competing against others.[/quote]

Fair enough. I respect your opinion. However, I do disagree.

edit: on second thought I do kind of agree. You can be serious about bodybuilding without being a bodybuilder. You can participate in baseball very seriously without being considered a baseball player.

116

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[/quote]

I must have missed the joke.

You haven’t explained why you would care if a guy who looks like a bodybuilder calls himself one.

You care a bit much for some reason.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone really cares who calls themselves a bodybuilder. The point being made by some is that, with THEIR definition of a bodybuilder as “someone who competes/has competed in bodybuilding,” no, THEY would not consider that big jacked guy a bodybuilder. The big jacked guy who considers himself a bodybuilder but does not compete should not take issue with this, nor should the guy with the different definition of a bodybuilder take issue with the fact that big jacked man considers himself a bodybuilder. If either of these people care that much about other people’s perceptions of themselves, that’s their own issue.

The only time someone could take issue with it, as others like Stu mentioned, is when someone who, while big and strong, has never dieted down to contest-level BF, starts giving out bodybuilding advice to another competitor pertaining to the dieting down/contest part of it, under the guise of a 'bodybuilder, 'even though they’ve never “been there”.

117

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[/quote]

I must have missed the joke.

You haven’t explained why you would care if a guy who looks like a bodybuilder calls himself one.

You care a bit much for some reason.[/quote]

You are the one here concerned about what people look like. I’m concerned with what they actually are. If someone wants to misrepresnt themselves as a bodybuilder just because they look like one to the average joe that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean they are one.

None of my comments have been personal, but you seem to be taking them that way.[/quote]

What someone actually is?

Uh, if someone trains with the specific goal of building themselves up in proportion and does so to the tune of looking like a “bodybuilder”, I would say they are a bodybuilder who hasn’t competed.

I mean, that is what they are, right?

How is it “misrepresentation” if that person called themselves a “non-competitive bodybuilder”?

Also, this is bodybuilding, how can it NOT be about what someone looks like?

No one cares if the guy with no muscles competed. No one would really call him a “bodybuilder” but act like the guy standing next to him with 22" arms who looks like Phil Heath can’t dare call themselves that.

Honestly, you only see that crap on the internet. This NEVER…I mean NEVER comes up in real life in the gym.

118

[quote]Jab1 wrote:
My take is that it depends on your goals.

If you are mainly trying to get bigger muscles and look better then to me you are a bodybuilder. If your main goal is more muscular size, you’re a bodybuilder. Zyzz was a bodybuilder but never competed. Lots of people are “bodybuilding” with no intention of ever stepping on stage; their primary goal is just looking better and getting bigger.

My primary goal is performance so I don’t call myself a bodybuilder, but I use a lot of bodybuilding methodology. But it’s like, Ronnie Coleman used a lot of powerlifting methodology (we’ve all seen those low rep deadlifts) but his PRIMARY goal was getting huge and ripped, so he was a bodybuilder.

Competing doesn’t necessarily make you a bodybuilder. But it can make you a COMPETITIVE bodybuilder.

This way the words are useful and meaningful. If someone says they are a bodybuilder then you know their main goal is getting more muscular and looking better. Doesn’t mean they don’t care about strength or performance or whatever… Same goes for all the other labels. They’re useful descriptors but they don’t tell the whole story.

I don’t like the way some people seem so set on putting up artificial divisions… I prefer to look for commonalities rather than differences. Pretty much all of us here want to get bigger and look better, even if that isn’t our main focus. Some are bodybuilders, some powerlifters, some gym rats but we all share at least some training elements and we all look just as weird to regular people.

We all lift weights and battle the metal.

That’s why it is not a “brotherhood of bodybuilders” or a “brotherhood of powerlifters” but a Brotherhood of IRON. [/quote]
Very well said.

I think there’s “bodybuilder” and “competitive bodybuilder”. If you regularly lift heavy shit to get a better physique you’re bodybuilding and can call yourself a bodybuilder. If you also compete you can call yourself a competitive bodybuilder.

Labels don’t mean nearly as much as the person underneath the label. How much I listen to that person’s advice depends on what kind of knowledge and experience he has. This is really basic shit and arguing about how Professor X has never competed in every single thread isn’t necessary. We know, he knows and he doesn’t give out advice on shit he doesn’t have experience with.

119

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, while people may have different opinions, the reality is, it comes down to what you LOOK LIKE to most people.

(…)

That is just a fact. The average person even as a serious gym goer wouldn’t know whether someone else competed without speaking to them…and most people don’t avoid labeling complete strangers…so they would get called what they look like.[/quote]

What?
This has got to be the worst argument I’ve ever heard.

So you are what an uneducated layman thinks you are?
So if a stranger thinks you look like an idiot, you are for all effective purposes an idiot. Cool.[/quote]

Yes I agree. The average person might walk into the gym and think everyone in there that is bigger than them is a bodybuilder, and they would be wrong.

edit: People define themselves by what they actually are, not what others think they look like. A football player may look like a bodybuilder, but he most likely goes around telling people hes a footabll player because that is what he is. [/quote]

So, funny story.

Somehow, pretty much my whole gym got the impression that I played football for Georgia Tech (I do wear some GT apparel). I have no idea how that got started, but I found out about it when one of the regular guys asked what position I had played. I have never played a down of football in my life.

120

Can also be broken up into a couple of categories:

1)Competitive Bodybuilders

2)Bodybuilding Enthusiasts - Guys who probably will compete and seem to be on a never ending bulk or cut who just havent figured out their body yet.

3)Guys who only care about abs

4)Guys with eating disorders

5)Guys who ask shitty questions about the same stuff, and typically do what they originally intended to do anyway.

6)Guys who run cycles without having any from of PCT, because they’ll “get it later”

7)Occasional Trolls