I dont see how anyone can know what their genetic limitations are until the reach them? Dont most professional bodybuilders train HARD for well over a decade before they peak? No one in here talking about genetic limits has done that so there is NO WAY anyone would know what their genetic limit is. Sure theres a pretty good chance you cant make it to 300lbs of lean mass but there is no way of knowing that for sure.
.greg.
[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont see how anyone can know what their genetic limitations are until the reach them? Dont most professional bodybuilders train HARD for well over a decade before they peak? No one in here talking about genetic limits has done that so there is NO WAY anyone would know what their genetic limit is. Sure theres a pretty good chance you cant make it to 300lbs of lean mass but there is no way of knowing that for sure.
.greg.[/quote]
Fuck all…
Most people that are going to make a living at this are on gear well before they reach their limits anyway. So it’s irrelevant for them to worry about it.
Most people that use gear aren’t going to win shit, so they don’t need to worry about it.
Most people that lift aren’t going to enter any competitions anyway. So no need for them to worry.
Natty or assisted, most people would be better served trying to be better than they were yesterday at their chosen goal, all the while striving to be the best motherfucker in that field you can be.
Do you have to win the Olympia to be a success? No. But you have to try and be more than mediocre. Do you have to be a ripped 245lbs to be happy and deserve respect? No. But don’t expect people to respect you when you give up and rather than share your failures to help people.
That is why giving a fuck what your limits are is a waste of your time. It puts you in a box, where you end up being okay with letting go of your passion and being a waste of natural resources.
My boss grew up too poor for new shoes. He now has three commas in his bank account. DO you think he sat up thinking about what the limit of rich he could become when he was 12 and broke as fuck? I doubt it.
So why someone who is 155lbs with 14 inch arms is measuring their wrists to try and peg where their limit is boggles me. WHO GIVES A FUCK. Get up and bust yoru fucking ass trying to be the god damn best. Trust me, you’ll end up doing okay for yourself providing you don’t quit and aren’t’ a dipshit.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
My apologies - I was talking about Get Ate’s avatar - I thought Hyena was referring to him, not Belligerent…lol… [/quote]
I had a feeling you were referring to his…didn’t make sense with belligerent’s pic haha.
Get_ate has a solid-ass physique, for sure. I don’t know about belligerent, but judging by his posts in this thread, I’m not thinking it’s all that impressive. I may be wrong. But I don’t think so.
It’s just one of those silly things. NOBODY knows their genetic limitations. There is no way to know them, with currently available science. So why the hell would people worry about them and put a mental block in their own road like that? It’s stupid. It would be like a powerlifter stopping at a 4/5/6 total, because he’s afraid his bone structure isn’t strong enough to hold any more weight than that, and his femur might snap if he tries. But how will he know if he doesn’t try? You simply do everything in your power to keep making progress, and never accept defeat on any level.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont see how anyone can know what their genetic limitations are until the reach them? Dont most professional bodybuilders train HARD for well over a decade before they peak? No one in here talking about genetic limits has done that so there is NO WAY anyone would know what their genetic limit is. Sure theres a pretty good chance you cant make it to 300lbs of lean mass but there is no way of knowing that for sure.
.greg.[/quote]
Fuck all…
Most people that are going to make a living at this are on gear well before they reach their limits anyway. So it’s irrelevant for them to worry about it.
Most people that use gear aren’t going to win shit, so they don’t need to worry about it.
Most people that lift aren’t going to enter any competitions anyway. So no need for them to worry.
Natty or assisted, most people would be better served trying to be better than they were yesterday at their chosen goal, all the while striving to be the best motherfucker in that field you can be.
Do you have to win the Olympia to be a success? No. But you have to try and be more than mediocre. Do you have to be a ripped 245lbs to be happy and deserve respect? No. But don’t expect people to respect you when you give up and rather than share your failures to help people.
That is why giving a fuck what your limits are is a waste of your time. It puts you in a box, where you end up being okay with letting go of your passion and being a waste of natural resources.
My boss grew up too poor for new shoes. He now has three commas in his bank account. DO you think he sat up thinking about what the limit of rich he could become when he was 12 and broke as fuck? I doubt it.
So why someone who is 155lbs with 14 inch arms is measuring their wrists to try and peg where their limit is boggles me. WHO GIVES A FUCK. Get up and bust yoru fucking ass trying to be the god damn best. Trust me, you’ll end up doing okay for yourself providing you don’t quit and aren’t’ a dipshit.[/quote]
wait so we are agreeing right?
.greg.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
his bone structure isn’t strong enough to hold any more weight than that, and his femur might snap if he tries. But how will he know if he doesn’t try? [/quote]
so is this the new measuring stick to see if you’ve reached your genetic limit? Once your bones start crumbling under the weight of all the muscle you’ve built, we can all agree you’ve reached your limit 
.greg.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
his bone structure isn’t strong enough to hold any more weight than that, and his femur might snap if he tries. But how will he know if he doesn’t try? [/quote]
so is this the new measuring stick to see if you’ve reached your genetic limit? Once your bones start crumbling under the weight of all the muscle you’ve built, we can all agree you’ve reached your limit
.greg.[/quote]
Yeah I guess that’s fair enough. Lol.
And beans and you are agreeing, his post seems to have been intended as an “add-on” to yours, not a disagreement.
I’m glad most of you are agreeing with me, in that blaming genetics is bullshit.
If you think there is a limit to how big your muscles can get, go tell that to kai greene. Whats that? “steroids” you say? So? You think that steroids somehow alter your genetic code so you can put on more muscle than if you didn’t? No. That is retarded.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you can get that big without steroids. I believe that there is a point that most people will come to, where the only way to advance their game is steroids. But to say that it is genetics that limits muscle size is simply incorrect. If you believe it is genetics, then you essentially believe that steroids override your genome, and enable you to “overcome” your genetics. Something may limit muscle size, but it isn’t genetics (my money is on mindset). If it were, then steroids would only work in a few, select people.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
his bone structure isn’t strong enough to hold any more weight than that, and his femur might snap if he tries. But how will he know if he doesn’t try? [/quote]
so is this the new measuring stick to see if you’ve reached your genetic limit? Once your bones start crumbling under the weight of all the muscle you’ve built, we can all agree you’ve reached your limit
.greg.[/quote]
Yeah I guess that’s fair enough. Lol.
And beans and you are agreeing, his post seems to have been intended as an “add-on” to yours, not a disagreement. [/quote]
ok good. Thats what I was thinking but I thought maybe my reading comprehension was all whacked off
.greg.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
his bone structure isn’t strong enough to hold any more weight than that, and his femur might snap if he tries. But how will he know if he doesn’t try? [/quote]
so is this the new measuring stick to see if you’ve reached your genetic limit? Once your bones start crumbling under the weight of all the muscle you’ve built, we can all agree you’ve reached your limit
.greg.[/quote]
Yeah I guess that’s fair enough. Lol.
And beans and you are agreeing, his post seems to have been intended as an “add-on” to yours, not a disagreement. [/quote]
ok good. Thats what I was thinking but I thought maybe my reading comprehension was all whacked off
.greg.[/quote]
He goes on these adorable rants when he gets a papercut at work. Excuse him
[quote]gregron wrote:
Wouldnt you have to eat and train for years and years consistently to reach your genetic limit? like a decade or two probably to completely max out?
[/quote]
I think that if you train right, you start to approach your gentetic “asymptote” within the first few years. Your potential becomes APPARENT at the point, even though it takes longer to actually reach it. You might keep making small gains for many years, but you won’t change your basic body structure beyond that.
[quote]Hyena wrote:
Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.[/quote]
No, we have firm knowledge (some of us do, at least) of the genetic factors which govern muscular potential, and to understand and accept them is an attitude of realism, not defeatism. Furthermore, if you don’t clearly understand the role of genetics as the primary determinant of all physical abilities, then you know literally nothing else about bodybuilding or human physicality in general.
RULE #1 OF EVERYTHING RELATED TO SPORT AND PHYSICAL TRAINING: from aerobic endurance to muscular size to how far you can throw a football, genetics is by far the single most important factor governing what you can do with your body. That is the biological reality of life on Earth. I am not going to respond to questions about my own life or physique. Like I said, I’m not complaining about my genetics.
The words “hard gainer” have never come out of my mouth. And I’m not trying to insult anyone or imply that they just rolled out of bed with huge muscles and didn’t have to work for them, but their superior ability is [u]POTENTIATED[/u] by genetics, and that is why the argument which relies on comparisons between individuals (“MY PHYSIQUE IS BETTER THAN YOUR PHYSIQUE, THEREFORE, MY TRAINING IS SUPIOR”) is always wrong.
[quote]Hyena wrote:
Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.[/quote]
We now have firm knowledge (some of us do, at least) of the genetic factors which govern muscular potential. To understand and accept them is not an attitude of defeatism, but one of realism. Furthermore, if you fail to clearly understand the primacy of genetics in determining one’s physique, then you know literally nothing else about bodybuilding. It is the fundamental knowledge upon which any further understanding must be based.
LAW OF SCIENCE #1 OF HUMAN PHYSICALITY: GENETICS IS BY FAR THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR GOVERNING ALL PHYSICAL ABILITIES, AND THE NUANCES OF ONEâ??S TRAINING ARE ALMOST IRRELEVANT BY COMPARISON.
That is the cold, harsh, uncaring, yet elegant biological reality of life on Earth. In fact, this principle is built in to the theory of evolution: if our abilities are not heavily influenced by genetics, then the whole concept of a genetic survival advantage to be passed on to offspring becomes unnecessary. If characteristics like size, structure and intelligence were highly plastic, organisms could just morph into whatever they needed to be to survive. They’d never die.
I’m not at all trying to insult the big guys or imply that they just plopped out of the womb with huge muscles and didn’t have to work hard to maximize their development. I respect great physiques and people who live the lifestyle, period. Unlike the athletes in the previous sport I was involved with, I give bodybuilders the highest praises for their dedication. However, a great physique is always [b]POTENTIATED[b] by great genetics, and the average man will never reach a level of development that would cause him to be taken for a hardcore bodybuilder no matter what he does. That’s why the argument which tries to establish authority based on size (“MY PHYSIQUE IS BETTER THAN YOURS, THEREFORE, MY TRAINING HABITS ARE SUPERIOR”) is always wrong.
Biggest thing I take issue with there is you saying that within a few years it becomes obvious what someone’s genetic limitations are. That’s just silly.
Professor X was a decently built guy after a few years of training (if I recall correctly, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 lbs)…now he’s in the area of 270-280 lbs, and not fat. If he’d subscribed to that nonsense, he probably would’ve limited himself to 230 lbs, being afraid that he’d just get fat after that. Instead, he just kept chowing down on steak, lifting heavier weights, and growing.
I’ve been training around 5 years total, 3-4 of them having a decent idea of what I’m doing, and I say “fuck you” to anyone that tells me I’m near my genetic limitations. I intend to add a couple hundred pounds to my Big 3, and gain quite a bit of muscle in the process. No questions asked. I have yet to see anyone stressing the importance of genetics so strongly that has a respectable phyisque. Coincidence? I don’t think so. And to pretend that someone’s physique shows nothing about their training knowledge, the vast majority of the time, is stupid.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Biggest thing I take issue with there is you saying that within a few years it becomes obvious what someone’s genetic limitations are. That’s just silly.
Professor X was a decently built guy after a few years of training (if I recall correctly, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 lbs)…now he’s in the area of 270-280 lbs, and not fat. If he’d subscribed to that nonsense, he probably would’ve limited himself to 230 lbs, being afraid that he’d just get fat after that. Instead, he just kept chowing down on steak, lifting heavier weights, and growing.
I’ve been training around 5 years total, 3-4 of them having a decent idea of what I’m doing, and I say “fuck you” to anyone that tells me I’m near my genetic limitations. I intend to add a couple hundred pounds to my Big 3, and gain quite a bit of muscle in the process. No questions asked. I have yet to see anyone stressing the importance of genetics so strongly that has a respectable phyisque. Coincidence? I don’t think so. And to pretend that someone’s physique shows nothing about their training knowledge, the vast majority of the time, is stupid. [/quote]
Yeah I agree with this^^
No way you could know within the first few years (3?) what your potential is. Maybe how big you’ve gotten has more to do with how dedicated you are to eating right and doing the things in the gym that you should be rather than the genetic limits your body has. Some people just get way more into it than others do. Ever see someone who’s training and diet are completely on point ALL THE TIME that still looks lie shit? I dont think so
The most idiotic of my training was the first 2-3 years of “training”…so I definitely wouldn’t rely on that as a “barometer” of genetic potential.
One thing I used to note (which inspired me to increase intake as a beginner), was that those who had decent appetites seemed to have no problem with growth/strength…so you could say that those who have naturally big appetites will naturally grow more…but that’s not a genetic limitation because even if skinny dudes ate enough, they’d grow too.
belligerent, I will not allow myself to be reduced to limitations. You can go on believing about your capacity for growth, but i will have nothing of it. One day, you will hit a “Wall”, a wall of YOUR limits. When you hit this point, you will have nothing to say aside from “Oh well, it seems i cant go further.” I on the other hand would only momentarily slow down to view the obliterated wreckage of a once standing wall, and then continue on my journey.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
belligerent, I will not allow myself to be reduced to limitations. You can go on believing about your capacity for growth, but i will have nothing of it. One day, you will hit a “Wall”, a wall of YOUR limits. When you hit this point, you will have nothing to say aside from “Oh well, it seems i cant go further.” I on the other hand would only momentarily slow down to view the obliterated wreckage of a once standing wall, and then continue on my journey. [/quote]
This statement is based entirely on emotions and wishful thinking. No amount of refusing to acknowledge the facts of reality will change them. You can choose to think nothing of genetics, but genetics don’t give a shit what you think. Furthermore, just because you believe in genetic limitations doesn’t mean you have to give up on training and throw in the towel when your progress slows down.
You can just as well go harder to get every last iota of improvement, and keep making subtle gains until age catches up with you. Realism is not defeatism.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Biggest thing I take issue with there is you saying that within a few years it becomes obvious what someone’s genetic limitations are. That’s just silly. [/quote]
Don’t you think within three or four years of dedicated training you would have an idea as to whether your genetics are favorable or not?
No, i refuse to accept what you say in the slightest. “Limitations” are simply a mental prison. If genetic limitations were true, then Pro bodybuilders would not be able to reach their size. Now ill say that there can be factors that minimize growth, but to say that with everything working properly and efficiently one can only reach a point is fail.
These limits that you speak of are moreso A. A lack of proper rest and nutrition B. THe lifter’s inability to foresee when an increase for these are necessary C. The need for Time off D. Adaptation, And more.
Lol facts of reality. You Go tell the thousands of 300lb bodybuilders that they simply cant be that big, since they are breaking the chains of limitations. Or what about the 500-1000lb HUMANS that exist in this world? You’re telling me that getting that fat is within the limits of a human? Because its fat, its allowed? Come on man.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
No, i refuse to accept what you say in the slightest. “Limitations” are simply a mental prison. If genetic limitations were true, then Pro bodybuilders would not be able to reach their size. Now ill say that there can be factors that minimize growth, but to say that with everything working properly and efficiently one can only reach a point is fail.
These limits that you speak of are moreso A. A lack of proper rest and nutrition B. THe lifter’s inability to foresee when an increase for these are necessary C. The need for Time off D. Adaptation, And more.
Lol facts of reality. You Go tell the thousands of 300lb bodybuilders that they simply cant be that big, since they are breaking the chains of limitations. Or what about the 500-1000lb HUMANS that exist in this world? You’re telling me that getting that fat is within the limits of a human? Because its fat, its allowed? Come on man. [/quote]
So to paraphrase: you intend to set your mind free of limitations by refusing to study and learn about the genetic influences on bodybuilding potential, and by deliberately blocking out this knowledge, you hope that the laws of nature will magically cease to operate on you. After all, if Ronnie Coleman can get to 305 pounds in contest shape, anyone can, right?