What Happened to Trial and Error?

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

So we can assume you’ve reached them?[/quote]

Wouldnt you have to eat and train for years and years consistently to reach your genetic limit? like a decade or two probably to completely max out?

.greg.[/quote]

That’s my point. And I doubt he’s done that, or even come close.

^^Ok thats what I thought you were getting at

.greg.

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^Ok thats what I thought you were getting at

.greg.[/quote]

And I doubt we’ll hear from him again in this thread…

My friend that I first started working out with got far better results than me and outgrew me very quickly. I always assumed that he had incredible genetics. The last few years I have come to understand that his genetics probably aren’t much better than mine, he outgrew me because he put in the work and had enough discipline to stay consistent for 10-15 years.

Ssssss yeaaaa this thread is two pages too long. I’ma take a nap and could you guys pretty much highlight the points made in this thread and any pros/cons also? Thaaanks.

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.

In other news: The reason trial and error no longer exists is because we are now living in a “quick fix” society. Why should I try out my own idea I had about arms training (be it exercises, sets, reps, intensity, whatever) when I can just post the routine here and have you guys tell me if it sucks or not? Compared to you, at your level, it may suck, but it could’ve worked for me. Then, if I didn’t do it, because you said it was shitty, what a loss! Try what you wanna try! Hell, the fact that you THINK it will work, already gives it a huge advantage over other routines! I think people are afraid to put in the time, doing what could be fruitless. Guess what? Everybody, even pros, look back and go “damn, if only I knew then what I know now.”

Another problem with this rash of impatience going around is that they don’t give the “Trial” part enough time to see if it does indeed lead to the “error”. Somebody said it already in the thread, they hop around from program to program, try each one for a week, don’t see results, get frustrated, and its onto the next bandwagon that rolls through town. Building muscle is very simple, in theory, but when they start to put in the work, it turns out that its not as easy as it is on paper, people get frustrated and quit.

The internet is a great resource, but it can also be the downfall of a lot of beginners. Say somebody comes on a site like this, reads about one guys workout, that has worked great FOR HIM, and then this newb writes it down and follows it to a “T”. He doesn’t see results, but he keeps doing it, because “It worked so well for that one guy”. If he didn’t see results in a month, he ought to try something else, but if his head is stuck on this one plan, that somebody else came up with, it ain’t happenin.

A lot of it is just information overload. People are trying to get into weight lifting, and they stumble upon a program like IBB. IBB is some complex, next level shit. All you need when you are starting out is a copy of Arnold’s Encyclopedia, and you’re solid. Lift, eat, and sleep.

Kai Greene had a great quote on “over thinking” training like this, in one of his “treadmill confessions” videos. He says “I’ve got people who come up to me, and they wanna talk about sodium depletion, and potassium loading…Man, just get in the gym and train.”

That turned out really long. My b.

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.

[/quote]

He did? Because if that’s him in his avatar, I’d hardly say he’s failed at bodybuilding…lol…

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.

[/quote]

He did? Because if that’s him in his avatar, I’d hardly say he’s failed at bodybuilding…lol… [/quote]

LOL, really?

Yeah that is a picture of belligerent all right.

LMFAO

[quote]KTranman wrote:
Ssssss yeaaaa this thread is two pages too long. I’ma take a nap and could you guys pretty much highlight the points made in this thread and any pros/cons also? Thaaanks.[/quote]

LOL!

I think that if people take their time with reading etc, then they would see how things are done around here (learn respect) and also have enough basic knowledge.

Thing is though, the worlds full of people who want to look like _______ from ______ movie…and they want it now! There’s no time to read!!!

…as if bodybuilding is just some shallow, no focus/dedication endeavour that you take on for a few months and ditch when bored.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.

[/quote]

He did? Because if that’s him in his avatar, I’d hardly say he’s failed at bodybuilding…lol… [/quote]

LOL, really?

Yeah that is a picture of belligerent all right.

LMFAO

[/quote]

This is even funnier since the guy in the picture (sorry, I’m terrible with names) isn’t even well developed from a bodybuilder’s perspective. Strong or not, that isn’t at all a bodybuilder’s physique.

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.[/quote]

Why do people freak out when someone mentions the idea of genetic limitations? Do you really think that if you train and eat right you’ll be 300 lbs lean? By any means I don’t think anyone should be discouraged from seeking their goals, but its disingenous to pretend that genetic limitations don’t exist.

For the record, I think barring some pre-existing injury or medical injury every male is capable of reaching 300/400/500 on bench/squat/dead

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:

Why do people freak out when someone mentions the idea of genetic limitations? Do you really think that if you train and eat right you’ll be 300 lbs lean? By any means I don’t think anyone should be discouraged from seeking their goals, but its disingenous to pretend that genetic limitations don’t exist.

For the record, I think barring some pre-existing injury or medical injury every male is capable of reaching 300/400/500 on bench/squat/dead[/quote]

Because I have yet to find someone who brought up the subject of genetic limitations as anything but an excuse.

And who ever said everyone can reach 300 lbs lean?

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

This is even funnier since the guy in the picture (sorry, I’m terrible with names) isn’t even well developed from a bodybuilder’s perspective. Strong or not, that isn’t at all a bodybuilder’s physique. [/quote]

Never said he looked like an IFBB pro, but if that WAS him (and apparently it’s not) he’s got some decent back development going on, and a small waist & good v-taper…

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.

[/quote]

He did? Because if that’s him in his avatar, I’d hardly say he’s failed at bodybuilding…lol… [/quote]

LOL, really?

Yeah that is a picture of belligerent all right.

LMFAO

[/quote]

This is even funnier since the guy in the picture (sorry, I’m terrible with names) isn’t even well developed from a bodybuilder’s perspective. Strong or not, that isn’t at all a bodybuilder’s physique. [/quote]

To be clear, belligerent may have made great progress for all I know. That wasn’t my point, but damn is it funny.

My apologies - I was talking about Get Ate’s avatar - I thought Hyena was referring to him, not Belligerent…lol…

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
Why do people freak out when someone mentions the idea of genetic limitations? Do you really think that if you train and eat right you’ll be 300 lbs lean? By any means I don’t think anyone should be discouraged from seeking their goals, but its disingenous to pretend that genetic limitations don’t exist.[/quote]
The people who have been most successful in this endeavor are the ones who ignore such limitations. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist, but they are better off dismissed as theory rather than fact.

Those aren’t even impressive numbers, really. I’m not quite there yet (not far away, either), but I’ve only had my shit together for a little over two years now. If a male trainee is willing to put in the bar-in-hand and fork-in-hand time, it’s a completely achievable goal.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:Those aren’t even impressive numbers, really.
[/quote]

Exactly, but it has to apply to everyone–even those with unfavorable genetics. It will take some 1 year of training while it will take others 10 years, but most will fall somewhere in between

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:

[quote]Hyena wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
I don’t complain about my genetics, but genetic limitations are real and there is nothing cowardly abcout acknowledging that. No amount of trial and error or eating will ever allow you to transcend your genetics. [/quote]

Congratulations, you just failed at bodybuilding. If you truly believe that, I’d suggest a new hobby.[/quote]

Why do people freak out when someone mentions the idea of genetic limitations? Do you really think that if you train and eat right you’ll be 300 lbs lean? By any means I don’t think anyone should be discouraged from seeking their goals, but its disingenous to pretend that genetic limitations don’t exist.

For the record, I think barring some pre-existing injury or medical injury every male is capable of reaching 300/400/500 on bench/squat/dead[/quote]

I don’t think many here would disagree that genetic limitations can play a big role if you’re trying to reach the top in this sport. However, it seems that most people who worry about genetic limitations aren’t anywhere close to reaching them yet and I’d say that’s what people have issues with.

[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:Those aren’t even impressive numbers, really.
[/quote]

Exactly, but it has to apply to everyone–even those with unfavorable genetics. It will take some 1 year of training while it will take others 10 years, but most will fall somewhere in between[/quote]
Okay, so let’s apply this to our goals. Just about anyone can make it to 200lbs, just as almost anyone can make it to a 300lb bench. But what happens if your goal is 270lbs and/or a 405lb bench? Do you measure your wrists and ankles, decide that it’s not likely to happen, and just give up?

Or do you forget about the limitations and just decide to make it happen?