- W R A N G L E R -
[quote]
hspder wrote:
2005 Mazda RX-8 GT. Best driver “feel” I’ve had in car. Ever.
michaelv wrote:
I’d say the same thing about my 350Z. Especially now that I’ve tuned the suspension (taken out what little understeer and lean remained).
The difference is, my 350Z has torque. 
Sorry, had to go there… I love the RX-8, but I think Mazda way underpowered a more deserving car. Hopefully they’ll come to their senses and come out with a turbo or three-rotor model to give it a boost.[/quote]
Maybe so. But maybe if it had more power it would loose it’s “magic” feel.
I test-drove the 350Z before the RX-8 and I didn’t like it. Every single person I’ve met until now that tested the two cars preferred the RX-8, as did every single professional reviewer… Especially on long-term reviews, where the “roughness” of the 350Z platform is criticized.
A sports car is not just about brute force, especially if you actually intend to drive it on the road.
Good example:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index3.html
Anyway, this is not a contest. As long as you’re happy with your 350Z, that’s what matters.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
Well, the problem is, you’re using a crappy car as your standard. The Acura TL is a fine family car with a little spunk. It’s far from a real sport sedan. In fact, the Nissan Maxima is a far better sports sedan, and it’s still front-wheel drive.[/quote]
Uau. First time I see anybody saying that. The 2004 TL is by far the best selling car of the segment, and everybody I had met until know considered it to be light-years ahead of the Maxima. Some people feel that the 2004 TL is one of the two best Sport Sedans ever, with the BMW 330i being the other.
Anyway, I’m not going to defend it – I hated the car. It’s just that it’s the first time I hear anyone put it below the Maxima, which I found to be even worse.
There’s one thing we agree on, though: FWD sucks.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
If you really want a sports sedan to drive that will change your mind, go test drive an Infinity G35. It will illustrate the stark contrast between a pretender like the Acura TL and a contender.[/quote]
I test drove the G35 many times. All of them – the Coupe, and the two Sedans (AWD and RWD). I know many people that have one. The car is nice to drive, but I don’t think it’s as polished as the RX-8, and it is overpriced for the build quality. However, it would be my second choice in the segment, even though it’s at least $5k more expensive than the RX-8 (for similar equipment).
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1111365034617.carrra.jpg
2004 Mazda 3, 5-speed
I guess its an entry level sports car, you know, cheap so I could afford it.
1991 Taurus Station Wagon- Sweet Ride
Fold down back seats mean that you can comfortably lay any chick under 6’2" without having to fold down the front seats.
When having to choose between lame car or no car lame is the way to go. May not be a chick magnet but great for hauling people or gear. Also starting off low will mean practically any vehicle i get into is fun to drive.
Reading about the sports cars has me dremaing to my younger single days.
Since I am now a practicle married man with 5 kids and I need to be able to haul them, the 2 dogs, and the boat; I drive a 2001 Excursion with the power stroke turbo diesel.
I get 18 mpg at 70 mph pushing the 7700 pound vehicle. I got 16.5 mpg pulling a trailer with a van on it to Arkansas this past summer. If I set the cruise at 55 mph I get 28 mpg with all the kids in it.
Being 6’6" I have a hard time finding a vehicle I can fit into and this one is VERY comfortable for me.
[quote]hspder wrote:
2005 Mazda RX-8 GT. Best driver “feel” I’ve had in car. Ever.
michaelv wrote:
I’d say the same thing about my 350Z. Especially now that I’ve tuned the suspension (taken out what little understeer and lean remained).
The difference is, my 350Z has torque. Sorry, had to go there… I love the RX-8, but I think Mazda way underpowered a more deserving car. Hopefully they’ll come to their senses and come out with a turbo or three-rotor model to give it a boost.
hspder wrote:
Maybe so. But maybe if it had more power it would loose it’s “magic” feel.
I test-drove the 350Z before the RX-8 and I didn’t like it. Every single person I’ve met until now that tested the two cars preferred the RX-8, as did every single professional reviewer… Especially on long-term reviews, where the “roughness” of the 350Z platform is criticized.[/quote]
I don’t know how having more power would make a car “lose it’s ‘magic’ feel”. That seems contradictory to me.
Yes, I agree the Z is more “hard-edged”. If I weren’t into hard-core performance driving, the roughness might be a drawback for me, as well. But in my case, that is just a side-effect to it being a purpose-built track car. This car is so amazingly well balanced on a track, that’s where it becomes magical. It’s apparant after doing so, that’s what the engineers really intended all along.
Again, it depends on your preferences and your goals. If you’re talking more like a sports-touring car, then I totally agree that the Z may be uncomfortable for many drivers, and other cars would be better suited.
[quote]Good example:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index3.html
Anyway, this is not a contest. As long as you’re happy with your 350Z, that’s what matters.[/quote]
Ah yes, Motortrend, the Muscle & Fitness of car magazines. There is a reason Automobile Magazine named it Car of the Year.
But that aside, agreed, it matters most how the car works for you.
THAT aside, I still think the RX-8 is severely under-powered for its segment. You don’t necessarily need power to enjoy your ride. I just think they could do more.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
Well, the problem is, you’re using a crappy car as your standard. The Acura TL is a fine family car with a little spunk. It’s far from a real sport sedan. In fact, the Nissan Maxima is a far better sports sedan, and it’s still front-wheel drive.
hspder wrote:
Uau. First time I see anybody saying that. The 2004 TL is by far the best selling car of the segment, and everybody I had met until know considered it to be light-years ahead of the Maxima. Some people feel that the 2004 TL is one of the two best Sport Sedans ever, with the BMW 330i being the other.[/quote]
Best selling means squat. Windows 95/98 was the best selling OS when it was still being made, in spite of Windows NT and Windows 2000 (which was vastly superior). The Taurus was the best selling car in America for a long time.
Most people that I know who drive To Drive consider the Maxima a more serious performance-oriented luxury sedan, which is what these are. The Acura is maybe built a little better, and a bit more polished. But this sounds like a lot of anecdotal positing. Let’s just say we have contradictory experiences.
It’s ironic that you position the TL against the BMW 330, then later dismiss the G35, since the G35 is the only car that the car magazines I trust (Automobile, Car and Driver) consider to have beat the 330 in that segment, or at the very least equaled it.
Indeed!
[quote]michaelv wrote:
If you really want a sports sedan to drive that will change your mind, go test drive an Infinity G35.
hspder wrote:
I test drove the G35 many times. All of them – the Coupe, and the two Sedans (AWD and RWD). I know many people that have one. The car is nice to drive, but I don’t think it’s as polished as the RX-8, and it is overpriced for the build quality. However, it would be my second choice in the segment, even though it’s at least $5k more expensive than the RX-8 (for similar equipment).[/quote]
Interesting perspective. Most people consider the car to be under-priced for all it delivers. The slight lack of fit and polish being the trade-off for such a good value. Plus, there’s Infiniti service, which is, like Lexus and Acura, going to be a notch above Mazda, Nissan, Honda, etc.
Oh well, we disagree, but at least you did a lot of research, which is good.
We agree that the G35 is a great car, though how great is disputed, we agree that the TL is over-rated, and we agree that Real Cars have Rear-Wheel (or All-Wheel) drive!
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1111373662661.garage_queen_512.jpg
Garage Queen. Only gets to come out on nice days.
A 2005 Scion xA. Manly? Nope. But 35 mpg kicks ass in its own way!
This is my pimp ass ride! I figure I burn an extra 40-50k Kcals/year going to school b/c of it and save about 5 grand. Check it YO!
[quote]Proteinpowda wrote:
This is my pimp ass ride! I figure I burn an extra 40-50k Kcals/year going to school b/c of it and save about 5 grand. Check it YO![/quote]
How can we be sure that’s your bike? It doesn’t look like the same apartment, this one is clean.
Is that why the dog got somewhat randomly photoshopped in there?
1995 E-ONE, 95ft ladder truck.
Handles like shit, but the chicks dig it.
[quote]I test drove the G35 many times. All of them – the Coupe, and the two Sedans (AWD and RWD). I know many people that have one. The car is nice to drive, but I don’t think it’s as polished as the RX-8, and it is overpriced for the build quality. However, it would be my second choice in the segment, even though it’s at least $5k more expensive than the RX-8 (for similar equipment).
[/quote]
I have to ask what you consider polished. While the RX-8 is a nice ride I cannot see how this car is more polished than a G35 Coupe. Maybe in your opinion it looks better which I would obviously disagree on. I have personally driven both the G35 and the RX-8 and I cannot see how the RX-8 is more polished than the G35 or even comes close to handling as well. Im not putting the Mazda down by any means but I’d like to hear about how it is more polished, especially in the performance department.
Trailrash, I don’t know hspder will point out exactly, but in general, I have heard complaints that the fit and finish is not as good as people expect.
However, it’s worth pointing out that these people are coming to these conclusions expecting fit and finish of a Infiniti, while in the G35, it might be closer to a normal Nissan.
Personally, I believe that’s why the car is such an excellent value. They put the money in the parts that make it drive well, and went a little cheaper on the finest luxury appointments, etc. That’s fine with me. If it drove like it does, AND was finished like a Q45, it would cost a lot more than it does. Right now, it’s one of the best values in the luxury-sports sedan/coupe market.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
hspder wrote:
2005 Mazda RX-8 GT. Best driver “feel” I’ve had in car. Ever.
michaelv wrote:
I’d say the same thing about my 350Z. Especially now that I’ve tuned the suspension (taken out what little understeer and lean remained).
The difference is, my 350Z has torque. Sorry, had to go there… I love the RX-8, but I think Mazda way underpowered a more deserving car. Hopefully they’ll come to their senses and come out with a turbo or three-rotor model to give it a boost.
hspder wrote:
Maybe so. But maybe if it had more power it would loose it’s “magic” feel.
I test-drove the 350Z before the RX-8 and I didn’t like it. Every single person I’ve met until now that tested the two cars preferred the RX-8, as did every single professional reviewer… Especially on long-term reviews, where the “roughness” of the 350Z platform is criticized.
I don’t know how having more power would make a car “lose it’s ‘magic’ feel”. That seems contradictory to me.
Yes, I agree the Z is more “hard-edged”. If I weren’t into hard-core performance driving, the roughness might be a drawback for me, as well. But in my case, that is just a side-effect to it being a purpose-built track car. This car is so amazingly well balanced on a track, that’s where it becomes magical. It’s apparant after doing so, that’s what the engineers really intended all along.
A sports car is not just about brute force, especially if you actually intend to drive it on the road.
Again, it depends on your preferences and your goals. If you’re talking more like a sports-touring car, then I totally agree that the Z may be uncomfortable for many drivers, and other cars would be better suited.
Good example:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index3.html
Anyway, this is not a contest. As long as you’re happy with your 350Z, that’s what matters.
Ah yes, Motortrend, the Muscle & Fitness of car magazines. There is a reason Automobile Magazine named it Car of the Year.
But that aside, agreed, it matters most how the car works for you.
THAT aside, I still think the RX-8 is severely under-powered for its segment. You don’t necessarily need power to enjoy your ride. I just think they could do more.
michaelv wrote:
Well, the problem is, you’re using a crappy car as your standard. The Acura TL is a fine family car with a little spunk. It’s far from a real sport sedan. In fact, the Nissan Maxima is a far better sports sedan, and it’s still front-wheel drive.
hspder wrote:
Uau. First time I see anybody saying that. The 2004 TL is by far the best selling car of the segment, and everybody I had met until know considered it to be light-years ahead of the Maxima. Some people feel that the 2004 TL is one of the two best Sport Sedans ever, with the BMW 330i being the other.
Best selling means squat. Windows 95/98 was the best selling OS when it was still being made, in spite of Windows NT and Windows 2000 (which was vastly superior). The Taurus was the best selling car in America for a long time.
Most people that I know who drive To Drive consider the Maxima a more serious performance-oriented luxury sedan, which is what these are. The Acura is maybe built a little better, and a bit more polished. But this sounds like a lot of anecdotal positing. Let’s just say we have contradictory experiences.
It’s ironic that you position the TL against the BMW 330, then later dismiss the G35, since the G35 is the only car that the car magazines I trust (Automobile, Car and Driver) consider to have beat the 330 in that segment, or at the very least equaled it.
There’s one thing we agree on, though: FWD sucks.
Indeed!
michaelv wrote:
If you really want a sports sedan to drive that will change your mind, go test drive an Infinity G35.
hspder wrote:
I test drove the G35 many times. All of them – the Coupe, and the two Sedans (AWD and RWD). I know many people that have one. The car is nice to drive, but I don’t think it’s as polished as the RX-8, and it is overpriced for the build quality. However, it would be my second choice in the segment, even though it’s at least $5k more expensive than the RX-8 (for similar equipment).
Interesting perspective. Most people consider the car to be under-priced for all it delivers. The slight lack of fit and polish being the trade-off for such a good value. Plus, there’s Infiniti service, which is, like Lexus and Acura, going to be a notch above Mazda, Nissan, Honda, etc.
Oh well, we disagree, but at least you did a lot of research, which is good.
We agree that the G35 is a great car, though how great is disputed, we agree that the TL is over-rated, and we agree that Real Cars have Rear-Wheel (or All-Wheel) drive![/quote]
I’m not sure I’d rate the Maxima up there with the TL. The G35x is more in the same league. The '06 G35’s have had huge upgrades in the interior and performance with the 6 speed manual. It now easily gives the 330 a run for it’s money. I was recently looking into getting the BMW 545i Sport and that is one sweet ride. Then I drove the new Infiniti M45 Sport and I was hooked. The only downfall is that I have issues with getting a 4 door. So my other alternative is the FX45. It has 4 doors but it isn’t a sedan.
Re: TL, possibly. I’m basing my experience on a 2003 TL that I drove. But the reviews and my drive in 2003 did not put them as highly as you guys have, so maybe they improved them a LOT since then.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
Get a real car boys! 1995 Mitsubishi Magna
[/quote]
A magna! Cool. I had one of those. It was olive green with a horrible brown interior. It was very reliable though. Even if it did look like crap.
Me = 89 Porsche 944 Turbo, Powerhaus PH K-27-DR Turbo and Mass Flow, Chip etc… also a Fiberwerks N/A Nose and bumper, Giovanna 18 sports
Pops = 96 Carerra, No mods, 2004 760i
Mom = 2002 Honda Accord (her choice)
and then we have the standard Suburban and Jeep Grand Cherokee
I wish we talked more about cars here on T-Nation. I’m going to get the pops to send pics as soon as I can.
[quote]trailrash wrote:
michaelv wrote:
hspder wrote:
2005 Mazda RX-8 GT. Best driver “feel” I’ve had in car. Ever.
michaelv wrote:
I’d say the same thing about my 350Z. Especially now that I’ve tuned the suspension (taken out what little understeer and lean remained).
The difference is, my 350Z has torque. Sorry, had to go there… I love the RX-8, but I think Mazda way underpowered a more deserving car. Hopefully they’ll come to their senses and come out with a turbo or three-rotor model to give it a boost.
hspder wrote:
Maybe so. But maybe if it had more power it would loose it’s “magic” feel.
I test-drove the 350Z before the RX-8 and I didn’t like it. Every single person I’ve met until now that tested the two cars preferred the RX-8, as did every single professional reviewer… Especially on long-term reviews, where the “roughness” of the 350Z platform is criticized.
I don’t know how having more power would make a car “lose it’s ‘magic’ feel”. That seems contradictory to me.
Yes, I agree the Z is more “hard-edged”. If I weren’t into hard-core performance driving, the roughness might be a drawback for me, as well. But in my case, that is just a side-effect to it being a purpose-built track car. This car is so amazingly well balanced on a track, that’s where it becomes magical. It’s apparant after doing so, that’s what the engineers really intended all along.
A sports car is not just about brute force, especially if you actually intend to drive it on the road.
Again, it depends on your preferences and your goals. If you’re talking more like a sports-touring car, then I totally agree that the Z may be uncomfortable for many drivers, and other cars would be better suited.
Good example:
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index3.html
Anyway, this is not a contest. As long as you’re happy with your 350Z, that’s what matters.
Ah yes, Motortrend, the Muscle & Fitness of car magazines. There is a reason Automobile Magazine named it Car of the Year.
But that aside, agreed, it matters most how the car works for you.
THAT aside, I still think the RX-8 is severely under-powered for its segment. You don’t necessarily need power to enjoy your ride. I just think they could do more.
michaelv wrote:
Well, the problem is, you’re using a crappy car as your standard. The Acura TL is a fine family car with a little spunk. It’s far from a real sport sedan. In fact, the Nissan Maxima is a far better sports sedan, and it’s still front-wheel drive.
hspder wrote:
Uau. First time I see anybody saying that. The 2004 TL is by far the best selling car of the segment, and everybody I had met until know considered it to be light-years ahead of the Maxima. Some people feel that the 2004 TL is one of the two best Sport Sedans ever, with the BMW 330i being the other.
Best selling means squat. Windows 95/98 was the best selling OS when it was still being made, in spite of Windows NT and Windows 2000 (which was vastly superior). The Taurus was the best selling car in America for a long time.
Most people that I know who drive To Drive consider the Maxima a more serious performance-oriented luxury sedan, which is what these are. The Acura is maybe built a little better, and a bit more polished. But this sounds like a lot of anecdotal positing. Let’s just say we have contradictory experiences.
It’s ironic that you position the TL against the BMW 330, then later dismiss the G35, since the G35 is the only car that the car magazines I trust (Automobile, Car and Driver) consider to have beat the 330 in that segment, or at the very least equaled it.
There’s one thing we agree on, though: FWD sucks.
Indeed!
michaelv wrote:
If you really want a sports sedan to drive that will change your mind, go test drive an Infinity G35.
hspder wrote:
I test drove the G35 many times. All of them – the Coupe, and the two Sedans (AWD and RWD). I know many people that have one. The car is nice to drive, but I don’t think it’s as polished as the RX-8, and it is overpriced for the build quality. However, it would be my second choice in the segment, even though it’s at least $5k more expensive than the RX-8 (for similar equipment).
Interesting perspective. Most people consider the car to be under-priced for all it delivers. The slight lack of fit and polish being the trade-off for such a good value. Plus, there’s Infiniti service, which is, like Lexus and Acura, going to be a notch above Mazda, Nissan, Honda, etc.
Oh well, we disagree, but at least you did a lot of research, which is good.
We agree that the G35 is a great car, though how great is disputed, we agree that the TL is over-rated, and we agree that Real Cars have Rear-Wheel (or All-Wheel) drive!
I’m not sure I’d rate the Maxima up there with the TL. The G35x is more in the same league. The '06 G35’s have had huge upgrades in the interior and performance with the 6 speed manual. It now easily gives the 330 a run for it’s money. I was recently looking into getting the BMW 545i Sport and that is one sweet ride. Then I drove the new Infiniti M45 Sport and I was hooked. The only downfall is that I have issues with getting a 4 door. So my other alternative is the FX45. It has 4 doors but it isn’t a sedan.
[/quote]
Think you would want to splurge for a 6 series then? Sounds like the car you are looking for, although it is a bit pricier.
I figured everyone here got around like the running man. Nice to see this question, finally. I made a purely emotional (surprise surprise surprise) purchase of a 2003 Dodge Intreprid SXT in the proper color of deep wine with candy clear coat, tinted windows, spoiler, and really shiny 17" wheels that are a bitch to keep that way. Had I known the Magnum with Hemi was coming out I might of been able to hang on, but since taking the Magnum RT for a spin, I’m still happy with the Intreprid. It lives in the carport.
In the garage, sitting alone, is my favorite ride, The L’il Tart a 1996 Suzuki Bandit 600 in pristine condition. She’s responsible for the majority of every grin that crosses my lips. Now that all the suspension and engine mods are done I’m going to start playing with the plastics or I’ll have to buy another bike.