Agreed Goldberg. Point taken…it is hard to make the switch though…hehe.
Steve,
now that you bring those up…I got a question about dumbell cleans.
YOu only use 20 lbs? How many sets reps are you doing? (I assume high reps)
Landon: oh yeah and I plan on buying his book. One more hour…also would like to just touch his chest and hope that some of his “bench magic” rubs off on me :-))
vizunaldth: Dave Tate’s got quite a few articles here in T-Mag. Beginner or not, you just read 'em and apply the many suggestions/tools, etc. AND there’s always this thread…
As for overhead presses, once strongman training resumes, I’ll be performing them (again) at least once every two weeks. I just have to be careful as to how/when I plan my bench/chest training.
Do you plan your workouts out weeks in advance, or do you just follow a template and wing the details workout to workout. Being so new to this, I’m a little worried about winging it.
Greek, if you check my training log, you’ll see that I normally do them with 20lb dumbells and get around 12-20 reps per set. Some days I will do more of a Cuban press hybrid than an actual “clean” with the dumbells; either way it’s similar in that it hits my external rotators and upper back quite nicely.
The only thing I plan out are my squat waves (for DE day, of course) and my speed bench contrasts. I also tentatively schedule when I will speed pull. I always have a short list at home on my wall that has my weaknesses prioritized for each lift…you’ll see why in a moment.
When I began all of this and I was training alone I was planning everything at the beginning of each week. I mean every movement for every day. Now that I’ve been doing it for awhile, I can wing it (save for the aforementioned cycles) and do just fine. Some days I have an idea of what I’d like to do, but it can change so easily depending on what everyone else at the gym wants to do that day.
My advice would be to plan the cycles I mentioned above, identify your weaknesses if possible, and prioritize these weaknesses each and every session. You don’t necessarily have to pick a specific movement, but know what you want to hit going into a given session. For example, say you’re having a hard time keeping your arch when squatting; you might not have a specific movement picked out in advance, but you will want to do a movement directly after box squats that attacks this weakness in some fashion.
HAVE A PLAN…ask your self why am I going to do this exerscice and if you cant say why, dont do it. I never really plan the exact max effort movement I am going to do, but I do know the type (low box squat, good morning,deadlift). Me and my training partner show up and say “what you want to do today”…Also when I went to the Elite fitness Seminar Dave said it wasnt good to Know the Max eff movement In adavance beacaue you will then sit all day and think about it and you will set limitations on yourself.
Landon, you’ll be happy to hear what I said to Ryan as I approached him.
“I was told to ask you 1000 questions so that I could relay your answers to all these guys who train WSB” - he smiled and laughed and said, “no problem; ask away!” He also said that he used WSB as his form of training. I know, d’oh.
Sooo, I pulled out my questions, all written out on a legal pad…nah, I didn’t do that.
I mentioned to him my sticking point in the bench, at the chest and what suggestions he may have on how to work through this. He asked me how my delt strength was. At this point, I told him of my conversation w/Steve (Steve, I brought your name up to Ryan Kennelly!), and he said that at that point in the bench it’s mostly delts, not so much triceps. Soooo, he asked if I arched. I don’t. He said that by arching it would lessen the amount of delt work. A way to work the arch is to place a 2-inch PVC pipe on the bench and lay back on it. He has gradually increased the size of the pipe he uses.
We’re going to begin doing this. I also purchased his book and have already begun to “dig in”. I get to also talk with him again at the WABDL meet that’s here in Portland.
I’ll post more tips that I rec’d from him later. I gotta chug down some beer now.
Oh wait one more tip:
He suggested a two-board press using a cambered bar. What you guys think of that one?
Patricia- If Ryan Kennely said it, it is a preety good idea lol…I have read where George Halbert also likes the 2 board presses with the camberd bar. He warns tho if you are not fimilar with your pecs not to do it. Because you will tear a pec easy on that exerscie. I personally bench a little more than 400 and do not feel I am ready enough for that kind of training, but to each is his own.
Big martin
im going to train westside as previously stated. a few years ago i was a beast. i want to resurect my own beast within. will running (namely sprinting) derail my efforts? where would you suggest i place my sprinting efforts. i have a few ideas but not sure if my current principles will apply equally with westside. i love to be fast and strong as hell… suggestions appreciated.
Patricia. Awesome stuff! Seems like a pretty open, and helpful guy. I was thinking about ordering the Kennelly Method, but I definitely think I will now. Just going to wait until I pay off this rather large credit card bill, then wait for the school loans to come in 
Anyways, I’m glad you were fortunate enough to meet him, and talk to him. Keep the tips coming!
Thanks for the responses on planning your workouts.
Patricia: The guy who owns the gym I work out at keeps insisting I do ALL my bench work with a 4" cambered bar. That would kill my shoulders. This past week I worked up to a one rep max of 300 (actually I got scared and quit at 300) with one board and the cambered bar. It hurts. I couldn’t bring the bar to the board until I had 135lbs on it. If you have any shoulder issues I’d say take it very easy at first with the cambered bar.
Landon,
Good thing you said that I was trying to get upwards of 40-50 lbs dumbells on my seated cleans. I will drop weight and go for reps.
Whooops. I meant to say Steve.
The guys steve trains with uses the cambered bar with boards on occasion.
Doogie-Louie Simmons says to use boards to keep the bar from going much lower than chest level. Maybe only a half inch to an inch below.
Be careful with the cambered bar at first. If you go to hard to fast, it’s operation time.
I’ve had some shoulder issues, so I stay away from it. I do an exercise from JM Blakely to help stretch the shoulder capsule area. You have to go light or disaster time. I use a 45 lb bar and bring it down in a bench press to the clavicle in a straight line. Pause for one second, press back up for 20 reps total. I do one ore two sets fro a warmup, sometimes a few on off days to stretch. Make sure your upper and lower arm are directly underneath the bar at all times. Go slow and don’t abuse the weight. JM has benched 700 and uses around 135.
Doing this sloppy will jazz up your ac joint. Low weight,strict form is a must. I hesitated for a few months in mentioning this on the web, since there is a good chance of hurting as opposed to helping if you do it wrong. Oh well, caveat emptor.
Vizunaldth- I would ditch the sprints and add in heavy sled dragging and non weighted gpp. If you want to sprint, I really dont know where you would do it without effecting revovery. I would think adding sprints after your dynamic squat session would be ok. This is a tuff question…I just dont think sprints will help your strength and sled dragging for time or heavy for trips will really get you in shape without hurting recovery, but to each is his own…good luck big martin
There are new articles at elite and hopefully landon can get my training videos up from today.
Have any of you guys used the cambered bar or Safety Squat Bar from New York Barbell? They are significantly less expensive, and are only rated to 1000lbs vs 1500lbs, but does that mean that they’ll be trashed in a year or two?
Thanks,
Dave Murphy
I really want to buy a safety squat bar soon even though ill have to carry it to the gym with me. Hopefully they will let me bring it in. If i do buy one im gonna get it from Dave Tate because of all the free information he has given me. Its the only way i feel i can pay him back. All westside guys should do that since we get so much free information from them.