Did anybody see the top squatter apparatus that was featured in reader mail? That looks like a damn good tool to use as a change of pace and to take the stress off the shoulders and elbows. Im gonna get me one of those.
Anyone ever play with their ratios of speed to max effort work? What if one is naturally fast would time not be better spent doing more max effort work and vice versa? Here’s a test I got from a coach in Germany, Dietrich Buchenholz (aka Dumbell Hammer), on how to assess this. I’m sure everyone will be familiar with his name before too long. The test basically ones neural dominance. One will have a lean towards either elastic strength (speed) or frictional strength (raw force and strength). An individuals training time would be best economized by prioritizing their weakest quality. As outlined the test can be quite dangerous so it’s best to have spotters onhand.
Neuro-magnitude test:
Option A: Perform a 1RM Reactive Bench Press
This test helps us determine many things about an athletes function
(note: this is one example and should not be read as the standard-
that is, “no”, not every athlete will perform this specific test).
The test involves performing a max single reactive bench press. This
entails the athlete to start at the traditional/top position. He
will then rapidly release his hands, relax agonistic tension, and
snap back his hands to full ROM(or very near). This release period
will cause the bar to fall, of course. For a successful lift to be
counted, it should be noted that 12 cm of separation between the
hands and the bar must be obtained. The initiation of contact must
be made within the 5-9 cm range from the chest. The “braking
phase”(the distance the bar travels from initial hand to bar contact
to the achievement of zero acceleration(of which, of course, is the
precise point at which movement switches direction)) must not exceed
4 cm to count as a successful attempt. From there, the athlete will
simply lock out the lift and rack it. Note: the reactive phase
(switch from pliometric/eccentric to miometric/concentric) should be
extremely rapid- especially as compared to traditional bench press
techniques- even though the description may sound as though the bar
is slowed or delayed(you should strive for continuous, rapid
movement).
Then, we will use the relative 1RM achieved, in percent, compared to
the athletes PIM 1RM(traditional max) in order to determine neuro-
magnitude function and/or neuro-rate or neuro-duration “lean”(via the
neurodynamic system). We can then use this information to determine
which neurodynamic components are necessary in order to advance
performance. 62.5% is the fence, above represents neuro-rate and/or
elastic dominant movement and below represents neuro-duration and/or
frictional dominant movement(to put the synopsis in basic terms).
Remember, 99% of athletes should test within 51% and 74%(anything out
of this range almost always indicates an invalid test performance-
review the criteria if you have to).
GreekDawg- I can see one problem with your awnswers I feel your shoulders are takeing a beating, trust me squating with a regular bar week in and week out will beat the hell out of your shoulders, this is one of the reasons westside uses camberd and ss-bars…Its not your fault but lack of equipment…Do to the fact that you must use a regular bar for all max effort and dynamic work…You have to make a few changes…Here are some Ideas…
Every 3rd week for max effort bench do 3x20 dumbell presses to take a easy week for the shoulders and allow them to recover. The weight should be heavy enough so you barely get 20 reps on set one and then on the next two sets try to get 12-15 reps after you rest five minutes. After that do extensions and push downs no heavy assitance beacuse you want no strain on the shouders.
Because you have no boards or power rack, you will alternate between full range movements for the bench wich will stress the shoulders, wich I feel is fine because you dont plan on competing and it will really help with muscle growth…So I would do something like this week 1 -declines very steep for a max single, week 2 low incline for a max single, week 3 dumbellpresses 3x20, week 4 slight decline for a max 3, week 5steep inclines for a max 3, week 6 dumbell presses 3x20, Now im not saying these are the only exerscice to do I am just showing how to vary them with limited equipment, you could also use bands also. Also keep your asseccory work where you press or use your shoulders to a minimum, do it on days you feel really gooand healthy, use a lot of extensions, band push downs, and band extensions, floor extensions and barbell extensions will work good…
The next thing is try to get the bar of your back every other week for max effort squat…That means do some kind of pull, sumo, stiff leg, snatch grip, do these off boxes of diffirent heights and take records and try to beat them…This will help keep your shoulders refreshed and provide for better dynamic squat days wich are important to perfect form and gain speed…
I really think by looking at what you have been doing you are on the right track, I think your shoulders just got a little beat up and it caused you to have a bad day…
Hope this helps Big martin…
Big Martin,
Are you talking about squatting with a regular 4" cambered bar? I just want to clarify. Thanks.
doogie, I think he means a cambered squat bar. Have you seen a WS tape yet? They sell them at EFS…
I’ve been trying to get my bench back since surgery on my shoulder and the weight always feels so heavy.
What do you think of doing some heavy negatives after a Max effort bench day?
I also think my weakness may lie in my delts but I have to be really cautious about lifting heavy in the bottom half of the bench. I was thinking about maybe doing some heavy dbell presses occasionally?
Kelly-I know which I way I lean without testing. Im very fast with almost all weights and even with bands. Im right at the 700 lb mark for squats and i have the max effort numbers of someone who squats 500. I thought about doing a phase where i worked more on strength speed but then realized that my meet lifts had just gone up a ton so i was going to keep doing what i was doing. However for my next meet i can already tell im going to need to change things up more often. Im starting to get stale on dynamic day which has never happened before. Those were always my best days. So after a conditioning phase to begin the next cycle im gonna do a strength speed phase for three weeks before i hit my regular phase going into my meet in november.
any tricks to to lessen the wear and tear on my shoulders in the squat (no equipment here…)
towel?
padding?
I just did an easy 170K today (still 120 behind GB) and my legs can take more but my shoulders are killing me…
I think I got at least 185K in me.
Im going to film my dynamic squat for you GB with and without bands and post a link so you can help.
For anybody with just regular bars, I’d suggest getting a Manta Ray. I don’t have one yet, but I’m definitely gonna get one. They’re only like $30. And they attach onto the bar so you can take them to and from the gym whenever needed.
I still want a SSB though. Hmph.
when you say your shoulders hurt do you mean the actual joint or the weight pushing down on your shoulders. i wanna make sure we are all talking about the same thing.
deadoc- Dont do negatives all they do is trash you CNS…If the weight feels heavy and you are not used to it incorperate some heavy 4-5-6 high bord pesses for sets of 3 or five after dynamic or max effort bench day…these will allow you to use very heavy weight while brining up those always neglected triceps…Also If you fell your delts are weak hen hit some heavy 1 and 2 board presses as a finisher or as assitant work, I also really like dumbell floor presses for the front delts, I like sets of 5x5 or 5x8, do these a assistant work on either bench day. Hope this helps…Big martin
GB: the weight on my shoulders hurt. I try to carry it as low as I can, so it sits on the upper end of the scapulae, just below my shoulders and it kills me there…
manta ray? should I?
Thats not what them mean when they say a straight bar is tough on the shoulders. You need to put on a shitload of mass on your upper back with shrugs, bentover rows, rows to the neck.Experiment with different bar positions to find where it is most comfortable. But the real reason is probably because your upper back is too small.
no its not!
here’s a shot of my upper back
(scroll down to see it)
if my back is small then how do small people squat?
this is a joke?
In no particular order regarding posts as far back as 8/7:
Doogie- We like heavy arched-back GM’s post DE squatting to give us the “feel” of a heavy ass load every now and then. It is a great mental help for me and many of us here. You should be able to handle quite a bit of weight on these (as the ROM is very small), but don’t overdo it.
Irondoc- regarding Louie getting into hip-hop and stuff…at the meet this weekend they were playing some sort of Celtic mix…not two minutes later, Louie runs to the platform shouting, “Get this shit off!!! Does anyone have any NWA???”
About Joe Average stuff- I don’t like his ideas a whole lot, but some of his crew did really well this weekend.
Kelly B.- about DB Hammer…I’ve talked with him via email a few times, and he’s helped me out quite a bit. I like his ideas a lot, and dedicating more time to specific strengths (speed/strength versus strength/speed) makes a lot of sense to me. I would still prefer to have at least one day in a training cycle dedicated to ME work and one dedicated to DE work, though.
Jared NFS- Don’t worry about switching up the ME work every week with the guys over there…trust me, you’re gonna get stronger.
That’s all I have at this point.
Thanks, Steve, and congrats on your meet this weekend.
Next question: How do I fix my grip? My grip is still my limiting factor on deadlifts and I’ve quit making any progress. Any advice?
doogie: there was a time where I could not pull a 295 dead w/out straps. No longer. My grip is no longer my limiting factor.
After a back session, we perform deadlift holds. Three “sets”, 30-seconds each. We use the Hammer Strength shrug machine and I began with 3-plates on each side. I’ve since added weight. And it’s helped tremendously with my grip.
Thanks, doogie.
I’ve actually followed a slightly modified version of Art McDermott’s grip article in PLUSA a month or two back to improve my grip. It basically involves one day a week dedicated to holding strength (involves doing fat and regular bar holds for a few sets each for 8-12 second holds) and one day a week dedicated to training the fingers and thumbs with tools similar to the Eagle Talon and Titan’s Telegraph (not sure if these are the exact names for these tools from Ironmind). We have similar training devices at my gym that work just fine.
Yes, this is a terrible description and hopefully Sully will do a better job of explaining it for you. I am way too tired to go get the PLUSA and dig up the article right now. You can also check my training log to see what I’ve been doing.
In any case, my grip strength has gone way up.
GB, can you answer please my Q…
also, should I get the manta ray?
Sorry, Glute, i had a worm. I thought i had answered your question. You shouldnt be having pain with a “naked” bar. I tried the manta ray on dynamic work and quit it because the bar moved around lot. Try different bar positions. It shouldnt be hurting you.