[quote]gags wrote:
jesus phil…thats alot of work…i woulda been fried after that…nicely done[/quote]
I am pretty sure I am fried, ate then had to nap. It was just feeling good today and wanted to take advantage. LOL
Plus only getting 275 up on the zerchers I had to do the Sumo’s sure I strained which is #1 for ME work but wanted that LOAD LOL
Thanks im sure ill be feeling it lower back is pretty tight.
Phill
[quote]Phill wrote:
gags wrote:
jesus phil…thats alot of work…i woulda been fried after that…nicely done
I am pretty sure I am fried, ate then had to nap. It was just feeling good today and wanted to take advantage. LOL
Plus only getting 275 up on the zerchers I had to do the Sumo’s sure I strained which is #1 for ME work but wanted that LOAD LOL
Thanks im sure ill be feeling it lower back is pretty tight.
Phill[/quote]
Phill,
Just curious, how much rest between sets were you taking? That is one impressive workout.
hi guys, i’d like to jump in on this thread. i’ve hit the point in WS4SB that it’s time to change exercises so this is the program i will be following for the next two weeks and rotate ME movements:
ME upper body:
standing military press: work up to a max triple
seated hammer grip dumbbell press: 3X6
bent over barbell rows: 4 X 10
rear deltoid machine: 3 X 8
standing crunches: 3 x 10
ME lower body:
full squats: max set of five
step ups: 3 X 8
RDL’s: 3 X 10
crush grip: 3 X 10
RE day:
seated barbell press: 3 sets of max reps
skull crushers: 4 X 5
chins: 4 X 8
cable lateral raises: 3 X 12
preacher curls: 3 X 8
circuit: crunches, hanging leg raises, twists
I am really interested in the overhead press and I want to use this program to bring it up. I’ll rotate the following max effort upper body exercises:
standing press
seated press
incline press
lower body:
full squat
box squat
trap bar deadlift
First question is, in your opinion, will this be effective for increasing my overhead power?
Second question, should all movements be rotated every two to three weeks or should I change them when I stop progressing in them?
Thanks for your help.
[quote]undesired08 wrote:
Phill,
Just curious, how much rest between sets were you taking? That is one impressive workout.[/quote]
Hey dont mind at all. On the zerchers, Sumo DL. Fairly long to recover?? if I had to guess 3 mins or so. A little less on he partial squat maybe but still recovering and concentration on the LOAD.
The front sqauts then were fast in comparison. around 60 seconds.
On ME day I dont track the rest to close just make sure im recovered or feel like I am ready to go. Its all about the load. On DE/RE day ill track it much better and go for usually 60 secs. as well the front squats or what ever move I usually choose to rep out onm ME day to test the old endurance and tap myself out Ill rest much shorter minimal to no rest. as well the acc work like the abs and reverse hyper shor rest.
Hey thanks it was a good w/o. Not feeling to shabby today either better than I figured LOLO
Thanks for the interest,
Phill
[quote]john w wrote:
First question is, in your opinion, will this be effective for increasing my overhead power?
Second question, should all movements be rotated every two to three weeks or should I change them when I stop progressing in them?
Thanks for your help. [/quote]
Yes it should Look pretty good but your kind of taking it to the next extreme from not OH pressiing and almost exclusive horizontal pressing, to you near exclusive verticle pressing. All that is likely to compound in a LOT of fatigue to your shoulders. May thing about doing some horizontal work as well. it will still aid your OH press indirectly and be a different stimulus.
Sill keep the emphasis on the OH press but may think of having one ME rotation being flat or a different plan for a break.
Well depneds on the rotation. You dont want to stagnate but if your progressing go for it. Id say the three week prob good choice if your fairly new top this as is prescribed in WS4SB
My 2cc
Phill
ME Bench Dec 2nd 06
OK just one of those days knew it wasn?t going to be great so make the best of it. Tendonitis feels like a truck ran over my elbow, must have scared lifting partner Off LOL didn?t show the last two days so no lift off etc which not great on a rehabbing shoulder. Anyway Just got in here and went fairly heavy with things I knew would be a stimulus but I could and would get.
Shoulder pre/rehab stuff ex rotations, shoulder horn. etc
1)Bench Press (Pinky on rings)
Bar x a lot
135 x 15, 5
225 x 3
275 x 1
330 x 1
335 x 1 ( 4 sets)
315 x 1
Worked on just GOOD solid singles went ok right elbow was certainly not 100% stable with the tendon pain wasn?t horrid in pressing though mainly pulls
Pin press Mid range where I die
315 x 1 (3 sets)
335 x 1 easy last week just brunt today
Chest Supported DB Row (thumb less to make sure to take arms out of it and pull through elbow)
70 x 12, 12, 10 + 2
DB Decline Bench (short rest periods)
70 x 20
100 x 10 ,5
Blue Band Pull downs did them by wrapping around wrist so don?t have to grab them and again takes arms further out of the equation and really pull with back.
Sets?? 3-8 x ??? a lot
These actually felt good experimented with different variety.
Started a few DB OH presses did a few and nah I was done on to better days. I was just beating a dead horse.
Oh a few abs
No shoulder pain for the most part once warm
Phill
[quote]Phill wrote:
ME Squat/DL Dec 1st 2006
Zercher DL with Fat bar bar 12? from ground
Bar x ton
135 x5
225 x 3
275 x 1
315 x miss
275 x 1, 1.5
WOW ok first time doing these tried going to the floor and my long limbed non flexible butt couldn?t get my elbows that low. Had to jack it up a bit to bar at 12" which was still DAMN low.
These were very humbling missed the 315 moved it but just couldn?t get out of the hole seeing stars So I know I tried damn it.
Then nailed a few more solid 275?s and the last one was very good so went for a double just didn?t get it. Call 275 a PR and where to build from. Prob should have nailed a 285 or 295 but hey.
At this point the I made the decision to go pretty heavy after seeing stars pulling on friggin 315. So hadn?t pulled sumo in about 6 weeks wanted to hit a Nice solid 90% pull just to prove and make sure I wasn?t losing anything. Pull were very solid even after doing the zerchers went up EASY
Sumo DL
405 x 1
495 x 1
585 x 1
No PR attempt but happy with how easy they moved. try a PR in a few weeks maybe
High pin partial squats, shoulder stance, pin 12
405 x 3
495 x 1
585 x 1 easy
685 x miss, miss
585 x 1 easy
Dropped the pin from last time 2 inches lower this time just couldn?t get the 685 up after the pause got it moving but fell flat.
Positive note the walk out and eccentric were VERY solid, tight, and felt great compared to last time. Will stay at this pin until I nail the 685 and move down again.
Front Squat
135 x 3
225 x 3
315 x 2
405 x 1 solid
225 x 20
I guess we?ll call the 405 a PR as I havent went for a single on front squats in a LONG time I know I had more today even being burnt. Then the 225 felt like candy for the 20. Stopped there figuring I did ENOUGH!!!
Reverse Hyper (high volume light load)
20 x ton x 3set
These were good LOL
Decline situps
70lbs x 4 sets ( 2-35 lb plates on shoulders)
Really good w/o everything felt good. The new zerchers will need work, that?s cool think they will help. Had the solid 90%+ range Sumo pull, rack walk outs went good wish Id have nailed the 685 but hey another day then the front squats. Seems im getting stronger the food/weight is paying off. The past two days of rest helped.
Till next time
Phill
great workout…
you are getting strong. lots of volume and you kept your strength. keep up the great work.
meat
[/quote]
[quote]Phill wrote:
john w wrote:
First question is, in your opinion, will this be effective for increasing my overhead power?
Second question, should all movements be rotated every two to three weeks or should I change them when I stop progressing in them?
Thanks for your help.
Yes it should Look pretty good but your kind of taking it to the next extreme from not OH pressiing and almost exclusive horizontal pressing, to you near exclusive verticle pressing. All that is likely to compound in a LOT of fatigue to your shoulders. May thing about doing some horizontal work as well. it will still aid your OH press indirectly and be a different stimulus.
Sill keep the emphasis on the OH press but may think of having one ME rotation being flat or a different plan for a break.
Well depneds on the rotation. You dont want to stagnate but if your progressing go for it. Id say the three week prob good choice if your fairly new top this as is prescribed in WS4SB
My 2cc
Phill
[/quote]
so if i rotated the flat bench and the overhead press as ME exercises that would be a better option than the incline?
on top of that, i could just stick to flat and incline dumbbell presses as my “supplemental pressing” work.
RE could rotate from flat bench max reps and dips max reps. i was also thinking about doing weighted push ups for reps.
nothing set in stone yet, thanks for your quick reply.
[quote]john w wrote:
Phill wrote:
john w wrote:
First question is, in your opinion, will this be effective for increasing my overhead power?
Second question, should all movements be rotated every two to three weeks or should I change them when I stop progressing in them?
Thanks for your help.
Yes it should Look pretty good but your kind of taking it to the next extreme from not OH pressiing and almost exclusive horizontal pressing, to you near exclusive verticle pressing. All that is likely to compound in a LOT of fatigue to your shoulders. May thing about doing some horizontal work as well. it will still aid your OH press indirectly and be a different stimulus.
Sill keep the emphasis on the OH press but may think of having one ME rotation being flat or a different plan for a break.
Well depneds on the rotation. You dont want to stagnate but if your progressing go for it. Id say the three week prob good choice if your fairly new top this as is prescribed in WS4SB
My 2cc
Phill
so if i rotated the flat bench and the overhead press as ME exercises that would be a better option than the incline?
on top of that, i could just stick to flat and incline dumbbell presses as my “supplemental pressing” work.
RE could rotate from flat bench max reps and dips max reps. i was also thinking about doing weighted push ups for reps.
nothing set in stone yet, thanks for your quick reply. [/quote]
imo if you want to get good at overheads you have to do over heads and your program looked good to me…i think phil was saying that instead of your program try doing over heads, inclines, flat bench for your me rotation…or some variation of that, instead of just completely dropping horizontal pressing. for me , i would do mainly overhead variations, and do some flat pressing as accessory work… good luck
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
great workout…
you are getting strong. lots of volume and you kept your strength. keep up the great work.
meat
[/quote]
Thanks bro yhea Im not changing a thing on the lower days. I will say I am beat up to all hell after the ME days then compounded a bit on DE but seem to get back and ready after those two days rest prio to another ME. As long as this is working Ill ride it out. If it aint broke dont fix it.
Thanks again,
Phill
[quote]gags wrote:
john w wrote:
so if i rotated the flat bench and the overhead press as ME exercises that would be a better option than the incline?
on top of that, i could just stick to flat and incline dumbbell presses as my “supplemental pressing” work.
RE could rotate from flat bench max reps and dips max reps. i was also thinking about doing weighted push ups for reps.
nothing set in stone yet, thanks for your quick reply.
imo if you want to get good at overheads you have to do over heads and your program looked good to me…i think phil was saying that instead of your program try doing over heads, inclines, flat bench for your me rotation…or some variation of that, instead of just completely dropping horizontal pressing. for me , i would do mainly overhead variations, and do some flat pressing as accessory work… good luck
[/quote]
Yhea pretty much. Im saying MAINLY OH pressing for damn sure for your goals. But not a total droppin of horizontal be it RE/DE/ME.
I would do OH pressing most of the times for me work for damn sure but every few weeks give it a break do flat just for a change in stimulus. It.ll still nail the shoulder, and Tri’s etc and well give the body a break from the same move. much like doing GM/s etc to brng up DL and squat. attack the lift by using other lifts. they have carry over.
So yes accessory DB flat work, or lock outs for tri’s etc. every once in while do a ME week for a change for the body and CNS. But If your not OH pressing on ME day do it on DE day and you can use it as an Accessory say DB OH pressing on that day.
Just looking at a bit of variety and attack other weaknesses. I would suggest any type of DB work quite often as acc. work to make those damn shouldrs STRONG!! Bullet proof.
Take that for what its worth
Phill
RE upper
push ups
20/9/7
somehow these wont go up
BB rows
12@45
13@45
10@50
5@50
rope pulls to face
12@32,5
10@35
10@35
10@35
bradford presses
9@25
8@25
6@25
hammer curls
12@12
6@14
4@14
ellbows out ext
12@10
12@12
5@14
pull downs abs
13@35
15@35
13@35
DB side bends
10@22
10@22
8@22
could do more on the db side bends and on the pulldowns abs but my grip doesn’t allow me to.
I need to change my ME upper and lower, I will box squat for lower, dunno for upper any ideas (since I am quite new to ws4sb)??
ME Lower
Time for another deload, you can only hit so many PR’s in a row.
Sumo Deads
135x7
225x5
315x1
405x1
465x1*
495x MISS
405x2
I thought the 465 was 485 and a PR until I realized I never put the 10’s on. That pissed me off a bit. Almost had a third at 405.
Warmed up with squats, then
Good Morning
225x5
275x3
295x3
315x3
225x8
Shrugs
315x10
405x7
405x6 Drop 315x12 Drop 225x15
Decent workout, mad about possibly missing a PR because I didn’t double check the loading.
I’m going to switch my ME upper days to tuesday so the Lower day falls first. I’m also going to make sure I get at least one really heavy GM or RDL session a week as well as more shrugs and rackpulls.
[quote]Phill wrote:
ExNole wrote:
ME Upper
Good workout, moving 405 was exciting.
Nice work bor things look to be moving in the right direction
Phill
[/quote]
Thanks man, I need to do some work to get my lower stuff lined up, but I’m definitly on the right track.
[quote]Vennie wrote:
could do more on the db side bends and on the pulldowns abs but my grip doesn’t allow me to.
[/quote]
IMO with those if your grip is a limiter use a grip aid to get a complete work out to the target area and work on the grip problem seperate. But dont limit the progress there due to your grip weakness attack the grip as well.
[quote]
I need to change my ME upper and lower, I will box squat for lower, dunno for upper any ideas (since I am quite new to ws4sb)??[/quote]
IMO some paused work can do anybody some good if youve never done it has a big carry over.
Phill
[quote]ExNole wrote:
Phill wrote:
ExNole wrote:
ME Upper
Good workout, moving 405 was exciting.
Nice work bor things look to be moving in the right direction
Phill
Thanks man, I need to do some work to get my lower stuff lined up, but I’m definitly on the right track. [/quote]
No prob
I seem to be in the opposite boat with upper being the prob but its moving SLOW now so thats good.
Keep it up no drastiuc changes just keep at it. youll find the solution
Phill
[quote]Phill wrote:
gags wrote:
john w wrote:
so if i rotated the flat bench and the overhead press as ME exercises that would be a better option than the incline?
on top of that, i could just stick to flat and incline dumbbell presses as my “supplemental pressing” work.
RE could rotate from flat bench max reps and dips max reps. i was also thinking about doing weighted push ups for reps.
nothing set in stone yet, thanks for your quick reply.
imo if you want to get good at overheads you have to do over heads and your program looked good to me…i think phil was saying that instead of your program try doing over heads, inclines, flat bench for your me rotation…or some variation of that, instead of just completely dropping horizontal pressing. for me , i would do mainly overhead variations, and do some flat pressing as accessory work… good luck
Yhea pretty much. Im saying MAINLY OH pressing for damn sure for your goals. But not a total droppin of horizontal be it RE/DE/ME.
I would do OH pressing most of the times for me work for damn sure but every few weeks give it a break do flat just for a change in stimulus. It.ll still nail the shoulder, and Tri’s etc and well give the body a break from the same move. much like doing GM/s etc to brng up DL and squat. attack the lift by using other lifts. they have carry over.
So yes accessory DB flat work, or lock outs for tri’s etc. every once in while do a ME week for a change for the body and CNS. But If your not OH pressing on ME day do it on DE day and you can use it as an Accessory say DB OH pressing on that day.
Just looking at a bit of variety and attack other weaknesses. I would suggest any type of DB work quite often as acc. work to make those damn shouldrs STRONG!! Bullet proof.
Take that for what its worth
Phill
[/quote]
Thank you both for your advice. I’ll be rotating those presses for ME and do some dumbbell work on RE day as well.
I’ll keep you posted.
guys,
i was just curious what kind of cross over you get from your box squat to your unsuited full squat? i did ME box squats for the first time today off a ~0.5-1 inch below parallel box and i hit 385, missed 405, but my full unsuited squat is 415. i was just wondering if that is normal.
[quote]windmill85 wrote:
guys,
i was just curious what kind of cross over you get from your box squat to your unsuited full squat? i did ME box squats for the first time today off a ~0.5-1 inch below parallel box and i hit 385, missed 405, but my full unsuited squat is 415. i was just wondering if that is normal.[/quote]
Actually your numbers are MUCH closer than many being only 30 lbs difference that is if your box squatting correct Unlocking the hips and pausing. This make you lose the stretch reflex and use pure brute strength to get out of the hole. This is why they help and raise your #'s up so much.
Yes its very normal to have them quite a bit lower than your non box squat.
Phill
DE Squat/DL Dec 4th 2006
Box Squat w Blue Bands (low 12inch box)
Bw x ton
Bar and bands x ton
135 x 4
185 x 2
225 x 2 (8 sets)
Took a Long time to get loose enough to get down on the box and I really don?t well until I had the band and 135 then things started to get good and better as I progressed. The 8 sets went well, pretty explosive. Still need to work on speed out of the hole off the pause.
RDL
225 x 15
315 x 15
405 x 10
These went well
Step ups 18inch box
65 x 10,5,5,5,5
minimal rest, Let bum leg be the limiter on the reps.
Giant Set: Cable leg curls 50lbs , single leg extension 66lbs, Cable crunch 100lbs
3 sets x a lot
4 sets on the abs
DB Grip work
200lbs x not enough time needs work
All in all a good w/o
Phill
EDIT****
PM conditioning work. Bike 5 mins then ten sets stair sprints then bike 5 mins. Man the sprints SUCK in Cold air.