Westside/PLing Training Thread

Training Powerlifting
5371

The style is referred to as Metal Militia, donned by the guys out of Adirondack Barbell (Bill Crawford, Sebastian Burns). Everyone training under these guys were blowing away everybody at meets about 5 years ago and about 80% of lifters use this technique. Not only do they advocate benching back toward your face, but they also have people use a big arch and go lower (sometimes to the belly).

These techniques work best for shirted benching, especially the guys that use the double denim shirts since their grooves are set down to the upper abs. Add on to that a big ab (read gut), and you have a smaller ROM and ergo a better opportunity to lift more weight. You can use the techniques for raw benching, especially arching, leg drive, and kicking slightly back toward the face. As for the touch point, unless you have really long arms the best touch point is about just below the nipple line. But hey, it’s all individual so experiment and find out the best set-up. If you’re interested in this style you can buy DVDs from metal militia’s website. They’re pricey for their length, but there’s a shitload of useful info in there.

[quote]skidmark wrote:

Louie Simmons is having his guys arc their benches back toward the shoulders ever since another gym’s lifters have been outbenching his (I read) and they were doing it that way. Can’t remember the name of the gym now, of course. Or where I read it.

Which makes it hearsay. Buyer beware![/quote]

5372

Mon 07/02/07

Raw Bench/Assistance

Bench press

Bar x some
95 x 8
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 3
275 x 2
275 x 3 (added 2 board)
315 x 3
335 x 2 x 3 (ohh, I think I smell a PR)

DB bench
80x10,90x10,100x10

Tate press
35x10,40x10,45x10,50x8 (should’ve been 10, forgot to do last 2 reps)

Chest-supported row
4x8,1x6 (can’t remember weight, but heavy)

Notes: I thought today was going to suck. I didn’t eat my normal 50 meals and motivation was a little lacking. Once I started warming up, things felt a lot better and the weights were flying up. Everything felt spot on. My last time with the 2-board I did a 3x3 @ 315 and had a little left in the tank. After the set of 315x3 went so easy, figured what the hell and added 20 more.

I looked back at my old logs and my old-old PR from February was a single with 330 and notes from that day indicated it was a grinder. The fact that I tripled 335 w/ a 2-board for 2 sets (2nd set was a little tougher when I forgot to drive with legs on first rep) is a good indication that my raw strength is improving. I know that I’m turning into a gear whore and all, but I have an appreciation for raw strength, knowing that it’ll only help when the shirt comes back in a few weeks. Getting PRs on the primary movement always makes you feel good when you leave the gym.

5373

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:

However, i hadn’t done a regular bench in a while so did one set after the speed work and quickly realised i’ve been doing too much board pressing for max effort work! I felt weak at the bottom and had to conciously pull the bar down to my chest, it just didnt wanna go all the way down.

Im thinking board pressing is more beneficial when using a bench shirt?

Not necessarily. The raw bencher can get a lot from board pressing. Just don’t go above a 3-board and use that sparingly unless you have a mid-level transition problem (like I do). 4 and (for long-armed guys) 5 boards are a shirted bencher’s staple lockout exercise. A raw bencher would only want to use those on occasion just to maintain top end strength. What I’ve found to be good for my raw strength are cambered bar bench (to a 1 or 2-board), floor press (bar or DB) and dumbbell bench (incline or flat). Some people like the close-grip (index on smooth), but all I get is shoulder pain. You can add chains and bands on these for even more variety, but I just usually go with straight weight on ME stuff except for the floor press.

…

Now this has got me thinking(this might be long, sorry:)). Firstly, in all the westside articles by Louie Simmons, he never really mentions taper weeks and implies that that is the beauty of the Westside system…ie the comtinual rotation of exercises into and out of your schedule allows you to train balls out virtually week in week out. Given that most coaches recommend a taper every 4th week, either Louie is onto something or the Westside guys do taper a bit at some point n they just dont make a big deal about it.

Any comments?

…

Elliot[/quote]

Everyone’s got an opinion on training and tapering. To tell you the truth some people are full of crap since the effects of training are so specific to the individual.

With that said, if you’re training balls-to-the-wall every day of the week, then yeah, you might want to take a back-off week on say the third or fourth week. However, if you have a good balance between volume and intensity, and are attuned to your recovery abilities, you can go about 8 weeks before taking a break.

It’s generic as shit, but basically listen to what BOTH your body and MIND are telling you. If you have shitty sleep a couple nights in a row, are real grouchy/moody, etc., take these as signs and stay out of the gym. Just my $0.025 worth; I’m not an expert I just play one on TV.

5374

[quote]Phill wrote:
Kalle wrote:
Supplement/diet talk

Do any of you use Power Drive?

I just bought some for the first time and have been using it for about a week now, I must say I like it!

Do you figure it is worth it to take after every training day, or just ME days?

I figure with it being 17 bucks for 31 servings with training 5 days a week makes one container last 1 1/2 months its cheap enough to not worry about wasting it.

Yes I use it I actually usually use it in the mornings even a half serving. Think it really helps keep me going in all this work etc but without loading up on caffeine etc.

Your plan seems very sound I know CT talks about it for CNS recovery etc.

I want to get better condtioned and could use to lose 10lbs of fat, if I had to choose I would rather be better condtioned. I don’t think a drastic diet change would be a good idea considering I still need to make significant strength gains and don’t want to sacrafice that. I was thinking of switching that to a bigger servings of 88% ground beef and lots of veggies to see how it goes.

I am thinking it might be best to worry about all this and experiment after my last comp August 22nd and just do more high rep work, sled work, and event stuff to get condtioning up in the mean time which might accomplish all goals anyways.

Maybe I could just cut down my carbs a bit? I’ve been eating some whole wheat pasta veggies and chicken pasta (no sauce) with added flax for lunch and dinner for awhile now.

If you need the weight as well I would just try and up the conditioning work IMO prior to any diet changes. No reason you cant get better conditioned at the same weight No?? get stronger in the process. Dropping intake isnt going to aid you trying to get strong and conditioned the higher work load may even call for more intake.

Phill

[/quote]

Yeah I got my advice from CT he said Spike pre workout, Power drive post, I think it has helped I dont fell as ran down the next day. I will probaly double dose it on Event days, and during comps… since a good event day seems to be 3 normal days rolled into one.

My friend who runs his on buisness was complaining about being swamped and having to many things to do at once, said his mind felt worn out… I gave him a scoop of Power Drive and he said he felt real focused, good mood, and had a very productive day.

I think your right about the diet, I am just going to keep eating, as long as I stay under 200… I don’t want to cut water this time cause there is no 24 hour weigh in period at my show in Idaho, Weigh ins 2:30 compete at 3:00 so I want to stay around 198 to be safe. (where I am at right now)

5375

[quote]Modi wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
I used a bb grip, just dont have the flexibilty to do it the Olympic way at the moment. I started off with my thumbs under the bar, but at 90KG it was getting painful. So for the 100KG i had my thumbs on top of the bar, arms crossed, elbows high.(doesn’t feel like the most stable of positions, but i wanted to hit something respectable)

I’ve found the same to be true. Anything over 225lb and my thumbs get crushed, so I have to put them on top of the bar. It’s much less stable that way, but unless the mobility fairy drops by while I’m sleeping, I don’t see being able to use the Oly grip anytime soon.[/quote]

I never thought I’d be able to use an olympic grip but its easy! just takes some practice… I just use have three, sometimes two fingers under the bar, elbows high… The hand isn’t to grip the bar just to rest it there, so two fingers is fine.

last week during front squats I felt more comfortable than ever, didn’t even have to use any wrist wraps. Myabe just try the olympic grip on lighter sets?

Of course I have seen many big/strong people that use a BB grip and have done just fine.

5376

[quote]Kalle wrote:
I wouldn’t limit myself by excluding dumbells.
They have their place IMO.
[/quote]

do you do two handed dumbell rows or do you just do them one handed.

teotunk

5377

[quote]Modi wrote:
Phill wrote:

Mon: ME total
Tues: Assistance Total (light, higher rep, RE and recovery)
Wed: Off
Thurs: Heavy Events
Friday:OFF
Sat: Light, speed, endurance, technique events
Sun: Off

Thoughts??

Phill

Looks pretty reasonable to me. I think it will be good for your strongman training, but obviously your bench is going to suffer if your always putting it after a squat variation. If you are going to do this set up long term, maybe switch the order every week or every 3 weeks…
[/quote]

I was thinking that as well mix it up But then just made it a gaint set. I was doing the main leg and main press and the chins at the same time. So like yesterday I would Press, then box squat6 then, do a set of chins. Long rest not as much as if I were just say Box squatting but the time between each say squat attempt was BIG nearing 8-10 mins prob

I may try this sure as hell makes you cram the food in I was ravenous last might and this morn

Phill

5378

[quote]novaeer wrote:

Everyone’s got an opinion on training and tapering. To tell you the truth some people are full of crap since the effects of training are so specific to the individual.

With that said, if you’re training balls-to-the-wall every day of the week, then yeah, you might want to take a back-off week on say the third or fourth week. However, if you have a good balance between volume and intensity, and are attuned to your recovery abilities, you can go about 8 weeks before taking a break.

It’s generic as shit, but basically listen to what BOTH your body and MIND are telling you. If you have shitty sleep a couple nights in a row, are real grouchy/moody, etc., take these as signs and stay out of the gym. Just my $0.025 worth; I’m not an expert I just play one on TV.[/quote]

For what its worth I agree. For me it just makes sense NOT to plan a down week. even if im going balls out I cant tell you today if Im going to feel like a million dollars in three weeks and be primed to hit a huge PR. Ill be able to tell you in three weeks though.

I think your best off going by feel and how your lifts are going. Ill admit its faulty as hell and for a long while youll likely lift or try to lift balls out on some days you shouldnt but thats how you learn yourself.

That said I sleep for shit have for about 5 years and really think it is holding me back its something Im working on and trying tons of things weeks off, etc etc and not a damn thing fixes it LOL On day if I can friggin sleep you all will be in trouble ill be the whore of all PR whores LOL

Phill

5379

Tuesdays Workout: M/E Upper

  • had to train back to back days this week because the school is going to be close tomorrow (4th)

1)Two Board Press: a bunch of warmup sets then - 255x3, 275x3, 295x2, 275x3
2)Seated Rows: 180x10, 190x8x3, 180x8
3)Close Grip Decline (paused): 185x8, 205x6, 225x6
4)Rear Delt Raise: 2 sets
5) Tris/Bis: 2 sets

Conditioning - 12 20yd sprints, walked an 800

I felt really good for todays workout, a ton better than the last time I did max effort upper. I had the 295 for three too but my damn board kicked off after the second one and since I didn’t have a spotter today I didn’t feel like dying. So, I just decided to do a down set at 275 which felt really easy.

Now it’s time to party for the fourth!

5380

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
Kalle wrote:
I wouldn’t limit myself by excluding dumbells.
They have their place IMO.

do you do two handed dumbell rows or do you just do them one handed.

teotunk
[/quote]

One handed bent over DB rows leaning on a bench are my favorite.

I am going to start doing kroc st

5381

[quote]Phill wrote:
novaeer wrote:

Everyone’s got an opinion on training and tapering. To tell you the truth some people are full of crap since the effects of training are so specific to the individual.

With that said, if you’re training balls-to-the-wall every day of the week, then yeah, you might want to take a back-off week on say the third or fourth week. However, if you have a good balance between volume and intensity, and are attuned to your recovery abilities, you can go about 8 weeks before taking a break.

It’s generic as shit, but basically listen to what BOTH your body and MIND are telling you. If you have shitty sleep a couple nights in a row, are real grouchy/moody, etc., take these as signs and stay out of the gym. Just my $0.025 worth; I’m not an expert I just play one on TV.

For what its worth I agree. For me it just makes sense NOT to plan a down week. even if im going balls out I cant tell you today if Im going to feel like a million dollars in three weeks and be primed to hit a huge PR. Ill be able to tell you in three weeks though.

I think your best off going by feel and how your lifts are going. Ill admit its faulty as hell and for a long while youll likely lift or try to lift balls out on some days you shouldnt but thats how you learn yourself.

That said I sleep for shit have for about 5 years and really think it is holding me back its something Im working on and trying tons of things weeks off, etc etc and not a damn thing fixes it LOL On day if I can friggin sleep you all will be in trouble ill be the whore of all PR whores LOL

Phill
[/quote]

I save my downtime for when, life gets in the way, I get sick, or I fell like poop…

And I am with yea Phill I’ve had sleep problems my whole life but has been better the last week, hopefully I can keep this going.

5382

Tuesday, 7/3/2007: ME Lower

A. Box Squat
135 x 8
185 x 5
205 x 3
225 x 1
230 x 1 (PR +5 lbs)
235 x 1 (PR +10 lbs)
240 x 0
240 x 1 (PR +15 lbs)
205 x 4 (PR +1 rep)

B. Deficit Deadlift
185 x 8
235 x 5
285 x 1
335 x 1
355 x 1 (PR +20 lbs)
365 x 0
335 x 1

C. Barbell Hold
365 x 6 sec.

D. Glute-Ham Raise
BW x 8
BW x 8
BW x 8
BW x 8

I lifted like Modi, but end up feeling like Phill. :frowning:

I’m happy with my box squat PRs today. The weight didn’t exactly feel light, but there was just a little extra oomph that got me past the sticking point. On both my 240 attempts, I can feel that I was starting to lean forward. I need to work on keep my core tight. “Chest up, knees out!”

After doing all the heavy singles in the deficit deadlifts, I went on to do some grip work with barbell holds. At the end of the first set, I felt a quick pull of something in the middle of my back. I called it the end of my barbell holds at that point.

Putting away the plates that I was using for the barbell hold was quite painful and I was contemplating calling it a day. But, if Phill can do squats with one arm, I damn will at least do my GHRs. So after grinding through four sets of GHRs, I finally went to the showers.

I’m not quite sure what kind of pain it is right now. It’s not a sharp pain like a muscle tear or a strain. It is a little bit dull, almost like I threw out my back or something. I just know that it hurts when I turn around, bend down, or try to pick up something. Good thing tomorrow is an off day. Hopefully with a good day’s rest, I’ll be back in the gym on Thursday for some RE work.

5383

[quote]Kalle wrote:
Modi wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
I used a bb grip, just dont have the flexibilty to do it the Olympic way at the moment. I started off with my thumbs under the bar, but at 90KG it was getting painful. So for the 100KG i had my thumbs on top of the bar, arms crossed, elbows high.(doesn’t feel like the most stable of positions, but i wanted to hit something respectable)

I’ve found the same to be true. Anything over 225lb and my thumbs get crushed, so I have to put them on top of the bar. It’s much less stable that way, but unless the mobility fairy drops by while I’m sleeping, I don’t see being able to use the Oly grip anytime soon.

I never thought I’d be able to use an olympic grip but its easy! just takes some practice… I just use have three, sometimes two fingers under the bar, elbows high… The hand isn’t to grip the bar just to rest it there, so two fingers is fine.

last week during front squats I felt more comfortable than ever, didn’t even have to use any wrist wraps. Myabe just try the olympic grip on lighter sets?

Of course I have seen many big/strong people that use a BB grip and have done just fine.[/quote]

Maybe with just 2 fingers per hand on the bar i could do it the oly way…still think im gona need some more flexibility though.

5384

[quote]Phill wrote:
novaeer wrote:

Everyone’s got an opinion on training and tapering. To tell you the truth some people are full of crap since the effects of training are so specific to the individual.

With that said, if you’re training balls-to-the-wall every day of the week, then yeah, you might want to take a back-off week on say the third or fourth week. However, if you have a good balance between volume and intensity, and are attuned to your recovery abilities, you can go about 8 weeks before taking a break.

It’s generic as shit, but basically listen to what BOTH your body and MIND are telling you. If you have shitty sleep a couple nights in a row, are real grouchy/moody, etc., take these as signs and stay out of the gym. Just my $0.025 worth; I’m not an expert I just play one on TV.

For what its worth I agree. For me it just makes sense NOT to plan a down week. even if im going balls out I cant tell you today if Im going to feel like a million dollars in three weeks and be primed to hit a huge PR. Ill be able to tell you in three weeks though.

I think your best off going by feel and how your lifts are going. Ill admit its faulty as hell and for a long while youll likely lift or try to lift balls out on some days you shouldnt but thats how you learn yourself.

That said I sleep for shit have for about 5 years and really think it is holding me back its something Im working on and trying tons of things weeks off, etc etc and not a damn thing fixes it LOL On day if I can friggin sleep you all will be in trouble ill be the whore of all PR whores LOL

Phill
[/quote]

Its funny you say that, im not a great sleeper either. I never fall asleep straight away when i want too and often wake up throughout the night. My bro is the exact opposite…he lays his head, falls asleep and wakes up 8 hours later. Simple as that! I think i have an overactive mind.LOL

5385

[quote]Kalle wrote:
I never thought I’d be able to use an olympic grip but its easy! just takes some practice… I just use have three, sometimes two fingers under the bar, elbows high… The hand isn’t to grip the bar just to rest it there, so two fingers is fine.

last week during front squats I felt more comfortable than ever, didn’t even have to use any wrist wraps. Myabe just try the olympic grip on lighter sets?

Of course I have seen many big/strong people that use a BB grip and have done just fine.[/quote]

I used to do hang cleans back in college, 5x5 style. But I was probably 35-40lbs smaller back then. Flexibility/shoulder mass is an issue right now.

What I should do (and probably will now that I’m thinking about it) is work on Oly style during my warm-ups to get the flexibility back, and see if I can make the transition.

5386

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
Tuesday, 7/3/2007: ME Lower

A. Box Squat
135 x 8
185 x 5
205 x 3
225 x 1
230 x 1 (PR +5 lbs)
235 x 1 (PR +10 lbs)
240 x 0
240 x 1 (PR +15 lbs)
205 x 4 (PR +1 rep)

B. Deficit Deadlift
185 x 8
235 x 5
285 x 1
335 x 1
355 x 1 (PR +20 lbs)
365 x 0
335 x 1

C. Barbell Hold
365 x 6 sec.

D. Glute-Ham Raise
BW x 8
BW x 8
BW x 8
BW x 8

I lifted like Modi, but end up feeling like Phill. :frowning:

I’m happy with my box squat PRs today. The weight didn’t exactly feel light, but there was just a little extra oomph that got me past the sticking point. On both my 240 attempts, I can feel that I was starting to lean forward. I need to work on keep my core tight. “Chest up, knees out!”

After doing all the heavy singles in the deficit deadlifts, I went on to do some grip work with barbell holds. At the end of the first set, I felt a quick pull of something in the middle of my back. I called it the end of my barbell holds at that point.

Putting away the plates that I was using for the barbell hold was quite painful and I was contemplating calling it a day. But, if Phill can do squats with one arm, I damn will at least do my GHRs. So after grinding through four sets of GHRs, I finally went to the showers.

I’m not quite sure what kind of pain it is right now. It’s not a sharp pain like a muscle tear or a strain. It is a little bit dull, almost like I threw out my back or something. I just know that it hurts when I turn around, bend down, or try to pick up something. Good thing tomorrow is an off day. Hopefully with a good day’s rest, I’ll be back in the gym on Thursday for some RE work.[/quote]

Nice way to persevere on the box squats, man! Most give up after failing, assuming that that’s it for the day.

I know that pain. I always get that one after a layoff and hit the weights heavy again. I just wait it out and do what work I can. I think of it as my body adjusting to real work.

Some light weightlifting or mobility activities for the area sometimes helps. Stay mobile so it can’t sieze up on you.

5387

Mon 7-02-07

ME bench 1-Board
135 x 10
185 x 5
205 x 3
225 x 2
225 x 2
225 x 1, miss on 2

BB Floor Presses
185 x 12 [PR +2 reps]
205 x 8 [PR +3 reps]
205 x 7, miss on 8
205 x 6, R/P 15 sec@bottom +1

WG pullup
22 [PR reps and volume]
20
15
17

Chest supported Rear Delt raises
25 x 12 [PR +2 reps]
25 x 10
25 x 10
25 x 10

Notes:

Being the fashion and trend whore that I am. cringes I skipped last Friday’s workout. It seemed to be the deload week of choice. I was really tired and sleeping too much but did not feel over-trianed otherwise. When I started having skin breakdown hither and yon… well, that convinced me to skip a workout. You should always take care of your yon.

The gym has a few members who recently graduated high-school. They’ve been on vacation for the past month. Last night a few of them were back in the gym and they said, “damn, you’ve grown”. Hehe, thanks guys, I needed that.

Bench:
Form felt off. I had trouble concentrating. Floor presses felt great.

WG Pullups:
I usually nibble on some dried fruit a time or 2 during the workout. Somehow the fruit had become too warm and became UBERsugar. By the 3rd set of WGs, the massive insulin spike had crashed my blood sugar. That was complete with swirling lights, and blind spots. So I ate a little more fruit and did basically nothing for 15 mins or so. Then I drove to the corner and bought OJ and chocolate milk. … the workout resumed..

Rear Delt:
Definitely need to stay at this weight and just work form.

5388

[quote]skidmark wrote:
Some light weightlifting or mobility activities for the area sometimes helps. Stay mobile so it can’t sieze up on you.[/quote]

Yes, I’ve been trying to keep myself mobile, walking around and stretching my arms wide while squeezing my back, just to see what hurts and what doesn’t. I took a hot shower after the workout to get the blood flowing a bit, and will try to keep active for the rest of the day as well. Let’s hope this doesn’t turn into a several-day or even week-long affair.

5389

LOL

Terry Tate - Office Linebacker

5390

[quote]Modi wrote:
Kalle wrote:
I never thought I’d be able to use an olympic grip but its easy! just takes some practice… I just use have three, sometimes two fingers under the bar, elbows high… The hand isn’t to grip the bar just to rest it there, so two fingers is fine.

last week during front squats I felt more comfortable than ever, didn’t even have to use any wrist wraps. Myabe just try the olympic grip on lighter sets?

Of course I have seen many big/strong people that use a BB grip and have done just fine.

I used to do hang cleans back in college, 5x5 style. But I was probably 35-40lbs smaller back then. Flexibility/shoulder mass is an issue right now.

What I should do (and probably will now that I’m thinking about it) is work on Oly style during my warm-ups to get the flexibility back, and see if I can make the transition.
[/quote]

Sure play the “I outweigh you by 50lbs card” j/k… Yeah I just worked it into my warmups until Flexibilty/comfort improved, hell last week was the first time I felt good with heavier weights and no wrist wraps.