Westside/PLing Training Thread

Training Powerlifting
4251

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Gentlemen,

I thought I’d be able to finish this whole thread before my training tomorrow…didn’t happen that way.

I’ll totally say that this seems to be right up my mental alley…meaning it seems you have to be a little crazy, and man I’m so there.

I also like the fact that each workout you’re going to get a new PR (95% of the time, anyway). I like that a lot.

So I thought I’d throw my plan out to you all to critique/tear apart before I do it. I’m not sure about the reps though…I’ve looked at some logs here and many people seem to have ME reps on DE days, sometimes. So some help with reps (and anything else, of course), would be appreciated.

Anyway, for tomorrow (Tuesday evening):

DE Bench

Incline Bench: 8x3
DB rotating skullcrushers: 3x8
Standing Mil. Presses: 3x8
Chinups: max out on bodyweight (maybe 3 sets of 10, I guess)
[/quote]

that stuff above aside from the incline is RE work just saying Might do a big move like the OH presssing prior to the skull crushers as well or even 86 one of them

this above is cardio LOL

generally anything aside from the ME work and DE work is RE work 3-6 or so sets 8-15 roughly but dont be married to that work hard not looking to fail but work hard

Many time I know myself and some otherrs here also like two ME move ad on one MAYBE two assistance moves call it a day. Like say Back squat and then a GM for Max effort HEAVY 1-5 reps then the icing.

great but dont over do it you need to recover.

same as above

again same as above RE work a few set of medium reps in general

[quote]
Box Squat (parallel) 10x2
Hams: Ham Curls
Low Back: ???

RE: Calves.

Again, I’m a noob at this type of training and would appreciate any help with reps and suggested exercises. I have read a considerable amount of articles at elite and here, but still have many to go…but the time to act is now, and I don’t want to hesitate anymore.

Goal: To be the strongest guy I can be at my bodyweight.

Thanks again,

AD[/quote]

Id read the Peridoization Bible By Dave Tate as well as Education of a PLer by the same and well anything else by him and louie etc if your wanting to get into a westside template. ask any questions and just work damn hard

Phill

4252

[quote]KO421 wrote:
Yeah, the guy I train with was smoking the kegs, did a run 200 250 300 about 20 ft away in just over 30 seconds.

I just didn’t fell good yesterday, on a good day I am sure I could atleast pick the 250 up, if not load it.

Thanks

Phill wrote:
Yup the lack of just keg experience is the prob there hug them bastards Hard and get it as high as possible is all I can say. Did you have ppl there with experience with them?? just seeing it done right helps a Ton.

Phill

[/quote]
Yhea the running with them is a different monster LOL but it does help teaches you to get them HIGH on the chest Higher you have it the less your holding the weight is coming down on your chest lest your man enough to shoulder them I never attempted to shoulder the 300 but 200 and a lil over not bad you lose some time though

Sit down into it as Much as you can to get it HIGH on the body and just bring the Shit.

Youll do fine bro go have fun and kick ass.

Phill

4253

GPP I guess

moved all of my equipment to the other side of the house, unbolted powerrack reassembled, moved all of my damn plates including some stairs…

little extra work for the traps, fingers, etc, carrying all the plates. Did some plate pinches during the move with the 10s and 5s did a run with 4 5s smooth side out in each hand which I was pretty happy with, pinch grip felt strong.

Did some walks with the log overhead, felt it in my lower back…

trying to rest today (esp the hands) but I had to move everything and had the day off so did what I had to do.

4254

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Gentlemen,

I thought I’d be able to finish this whole thread before my training tomorrow…didn’t happen that way.

I’ll totally say that this seems to be right up my mental alley…meaning it seems you have to be a little crazy, and man I’m so there.

I also like the fact that each workout you’re going to get a new PR (95% of the time, anyway). I like that a lot.

So I thought I’d throw my plan out to you all to critique/tear apart before I do it. I’m not sure about the reps though…I’ve looked at some logs here and many people seem to have ME reps on DE days, sometimes. So some help with reps (and anything else, of course), would be appreciated.

Anyway, for tomorrow (Tuesday evening):

DE Bench

Incline Bench: 8x3
DB rotating skullcrushers: 3x8
Standing Mil. Presses: 3x8
Chinups: max out on bodyweight (maybe 3 sets of 10, I guess)

RE work:
1-arm rows: 1x50
Machine shoulder press: 1x50.

Wed: ME Squat

*notes: I understand the first movement rep scheme well enough…but I’m clueless about the rest.

Back Squat
RDL’s:
Lower back: ???
Abs: standing cable crunches

RE work:
45 degree leg press
Laying hamstring curls

Thur: Off. will do some sets of 1x100 or 2x50 for chest and arms…then some sprints (maybe a total of 200 meters).

Friday:

ME Bench:

notes: Again, not sure about rep scheme for the exercises after the money exercise..help, please?

Flat BB Press
Tri Pushdowns
Standing BB Rows
Lat Pulldown

RE: Biceps 1x50
RE: Chest: laying cable flies 1x50

Sat: DE Squat/DL

Again, not sure of rep scheme after the money exercise

Box Squat (parallel) 10x2
Hams: Ham Curls
Low Back: ???

RE: Calves.

Again, I’m a noob at this type of training and would appreciate any help with reps and suggested exercises. I have read a considerable amount of articles at elite and here, but still have many to go…but the time to act is now, and I don’t want to hesitate anymore.

Goal: To be the strongest guy I can be at my bodyweight.

Thanks again,

AD[/quote]

I really don’t follow a westside templete nor am I the most experinced but a couple things…

If it where me I would do my ME bench before DE or RE bench, just makes more sense to me…

Why all the 50 rep and 100 rep work?

I dont really get the point in 50 rep curls…

For ACC movements I ussaly do something like 4x6 3x8 3x10 2x15, etc I really just do what fells right and listen to my body,I Don’t follow anything set in stone.

Take it for what its worth

4255

Just curious if anyone has every used Staley’s EDT principles with powerlifting? How did you set it up? Exercise selection/core,assistance, ME, DE selection? Other parameters,etc? Is it even possible or is this too much to tie together?

Right now I am using DeFranco’s WS4SB b/c it allows for more conditioning/running than a normal 4 day ME/DE split. Currently trying to drop some bodyfat and thought the EDT stuff might aid in the process.

Sorry if someone has already discussed this, but this has become a hell of a long thread!!

4256

just picked this up on ebay… I know I was complaining about being broke but I couldn’t pass this up for 70 bucks.

4257

[quote]obatiger11 wrote:
Just curious if anyone has every used Staley’s EDT principles with powerlifting? How did you set it up? Exercise selection/core,assistance, ME, DE selection? Other parameters,etc? Is it even possible or is this too much to tie together?

Right now I am using DeFranco’s WS4SB b/c it allows for more conditioning/running than a normal 4 day ME/DE split. Currently trying to drop some bodyfat and thought the EDT stuff might aid in the process.

Sorry if someone has already discussed this, but this has become a hell of a long thread!![/quote]

If dropping fat getting conditioned is the Key YES do EDT with compounds and EAT Do a search anmd check out a thread I had a while back called " My EDT Critique" its brutal you will shed fat even eating a ton and get crazy conditioned. It was 2 upper two lower.

some strength gains etc but Id use it ton shed the fat bring up conditioning and hold or gain a little strength Then come to a more Pure PLing typ w/o for your strength gains

If looking for more strenght drop the reps raise the load and rest more I think youd still be better using it tio get the BF ion the area you want etc and then move from there to a more targeted approach for the maximal strength

phill

4258

[quote]Phill wrote:
If dropping fat getting conditioned is the Key YES do EDT with compounds and EAT Do a search anmd check out a thread I had a while back called " My EDT Critique" its brutal you will shed fat even eating a ton and get crazy conditioned. It was 2 upper two lower.

some strength gains etc but Id use it ton shed the fat bring up conditioning and hold or gain a little strength Then come to a more Pure PLing typ w/o for your strength gains

If looking for more strenght drop the reps raise the load and rest more I think youd still be better using it tio get the BF ion the area you want etc and then move from there to a more targeted approach for the maximal strength

phill

[/quote]

Yes, fat lose is the main objective right now. I tried searching the forums for “My EDT Critique”, but couldn’t find it. Even found a link to in it in the “EDT success stories” thread, but it gave me an “ERROR PAGE”. (MODS anyway to locate Phil’s thread for me?) Do you still have a copy of what you wrote up? I’d appreciate it if you could pass it along.

You mentioned you ate a lot and still lost bodyfat, I have been doing T-Dawg 2.0 for the past week or so. Is it crazy to think that I can do an EDT program on 2,650 cal/day?
Thanks Phil for all your help!!

4259

[quote]obatiger11 wrote:
Yes, fat lose is the main objective right now. I tried searching the forums for “My EDT Critique”, but couldn’t find it. Even found a link to in it in the “EDT success stories” thread, but it gave me an “ERROR PAGE”. (MODS anyway to locate Phil’s thread for me?) Do you still have a copy of what you wrote up? I’d appreciate it if you could pass it along.

You mentioned you ate a lot and still lost bodyfat, I have been doing T-Dawg 2.0 for the past week or so. Is it crazy to think that I can do an EDT program on 2,650 cal/day?
Thanks Phil for all your help!!

[/quote]

Here you go

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=664493&pageNo=1#1080472

If doing this with compound and going balls out I would at the Least bump your intake to a maintenance level and follow CS’s advice three weeks and take a break after three yes I felt like I could prob push through and progress one more week but would be about dead as hell. Just back off for a week regular rep set scheme and back at it

Phill

4260

upper ME May 28th 07

Nice pre workout regime spend the only sunny day of the weekend chilling at the bar your dad owns in the outdoor beer garden, good friends, sun, some games of pool, smoker cooking lbs of meat and just generally taking it easy, nice stuff

Sleep off the 18 oz steak and now get er done

Decided to do light compound moves with the rehabbing arm instead of the isolation I can in a sense use a higher load and work other muscles and have the same strain on the tendon as putting it in the position of an isolation felt good just Nice and slow

1A) OH DB Clean and Press
(Gimp Arm OH press 35 x 8 (9 sets) strict and slow)
Strict
35 x lot
55 x 8
75 x 5
85 x 3
95 x 3
105 x 3 (2 rep PR)
115 x 1 (10 lb PR)
Push press
125 x 2 (5 lb and 1 rep PR)
strict/push
85 x 6/6 a LOT more here as well
All in all great progress how much is doing the Fat DB the second time getting used to it and how much getting stronger don?t know but was good progress still harder then a reg DB but felt good.
One thing I need to do is get the clean and GO!!! don?t dilly dally sit and think about it. Clean it then PRESS it. I waste a lot of time and strength, did much better today. Need to transfer that to when Im back with the log etc. also same with my squatting etc stop thinking on the heavy stuff and just do it.

1B) one arm Pull down
Gimp arm red band pull down x 10 (9 sets) strict and slow
2warm ups
145 x 3 (6 sets)
70 x a lot
Bumped it 5 lbs

2A) Cable press (gimp arm band press)
These are kind of like an extreme ROM decline press I lean against a pole to avoid using body weight
70 x 12
90 x 8 (2 sets)

2B) DB Row (gimp arm 35 lbs x 10)
150 x 2 sets of 5
80 x some

2C)
Bench reverse crunches
3sets

Light band work on tri?s, bis and lat raise call it a good session great progress
Phill

4261

Apparently, I need to rethink this. Goal is to start in 2 weeks (just found a good training partner).

Let’s try again, I hope this is better and I thank you for your patience as I work on this:

Day 1
ME Lower:
Max Front Squat
RDL’s 3x8-10
Abs: Standing Cable Crunches 4x8-12
calves (for the heck of it) 4x10-12

Day 2
ME Upper (Bench)
Max Flat Bench
OH Presses 4x10-12
Laying DB extensions 4x8-12
bent over Rows: 4x8-10

Day 3: Off to recover from max effort days

Day 4:
Dynamic Lower:
Box Squats 8-12 doubles (@55% of 1RM)
Reverse Hypers 4x8-10
Obliques: undecided 4x8-12
Neck Bridges

Day 5:
Dynamic Bench:
Incline BB bench: 8-10 triples (@55%of 1RM)
Lateral Raises: 4x10-12
Tricep Pressdowns: 4x8-12
Back: Lat Pulldowns 4x8-10

Day 6: 1x100 for chest/arms (or 2x50), and a total of 200m sprinting (4x50meters, or something like that).

Day 7: total recovery.

Any advice is more than welcome. thanks for your patience, again.

AD

4262

ME Bench 05-28-07

Shoulder Horn 15lbs. - 2 x 12
#2 Band Presses - 30
#3 Band Presses - 20
Pro-Grip Face Pulls - 50lbs. - 2 x 12

ME Bench
135 x 10
185 x 6
205 x 2
225 x 1
*Shirt time
275 x miss - grinder
275 x not even close

The second time wearing a shirt was much smoother than the first. It didn’t create nearly as much pressure on my shoulders, bruising was a lot less and the bar actually touched down too easily. I think Terry wearing the shirt earlier may have stretched it a little plus it may have just been on a better. Overall, it just felt a lot smoother. Next week I move to a tighter shirt.

Dips in Rack
3 x 20

Chins
15 [PR]
13+3 R/P
12+5 R/P

Piston Pushdowns - pair #2 Bands
50

Rear Delt, rev flyes - pair #2 bands hanging from cable machine, leaned back
50

Gimpler puts - 10# plate on bar
2 x 12
stopped tossing the bar from left to right - decided to preserve my teeth

4263

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Apparently, I need to rethink this. Goal is to start in 2 weeks (just found a good training partner).

Let’s try again, I hope this is better and I thank you for your patience as I work on this:

Day 1
ME Lower:
Max Front Squat
RDL’s 3x8-10
Abs: Standing Cable Crunches 4x8-12
calves (for the heck of it) 4x10-12

Day 2
ME Upper (Bench)
Max Flat Bench
OH Presses 4x10-12
Laying DB extensions 4x8-12
bent over Rows: 4x8-10

Day 3: Off to recover from max effort days

Day 4:
Dynamic Lower:
Box Squats 8-12 doubles (@55% of 1RM)
Reverse Hypers 4x8-10
Obliques: undecided 4x8-12
Neck Bridges

Day 5:
Dynamic Bench:
Incline BB bench: 8-10 triples (@55%of 1RM)
Lateral Raises: 4x10-12
Tricep Pressdowns: 4x8-12
Back: Lat Pulldowns 4x8-10

Day 6: 1x100 for chest/arms (or 2x50), and a total of 200m sprinting (4x50meters, or something like that).

Day 7: total recovery.

Any advice is more than welcome. thanks for your patience, again.

AD[/quote]

AlphaDragon, This setup looks much better than the last one. I like to keep my DE lower in the 60-70% range. Starting at 60% and increasing by 2-3% each week (as long as speed is good) until I hit 70%. Then start over at 60% again.

I find that if I increase my DE upper by much over 60% that the speed slows. So go ahead and start at 55% but don’t be afraid to increase the weight so long as the speed doesn’t suffer.

I’ve bastardized Westside pretty much for my own needs, as have many of us here. One thing that I do is switch my ME day from 3-4 weeks of heavy doubles and singles to 4-5 weeks of 5x5. This is my own doing, but I had good results with it last time, so I’ll continue to do it until I stop getting the desired results.

Bottom line is adapt it to your needs. Train your weaknesses and your big 3 numbers will climb. But above all, know why you are doing certain movements, and determine whether it is helping or not. Good luck.

4264

5/28/2007 ME Bench

First off, many thanks and much appreciation to all who have served this country or given their lives defending it.

I usually don’t agree with US foreign policy, but I am incredibly grateful to those willing to step up and defend my right to lift weights, drink beer, laugh at Seinfeld and generally have a quality of life as good as I’m willing to make it. Now, on to the training…

A)ME Pin Press–all reps paused on pins within an inch of my chest
Bar x a bunch
95 x 8
135 x 5
185 x 3
225 x 1
250 x 1
275 x 1
295 x 1 x 5

I was actually able to touch the bar to my chest if I brought it low enough on my torso, but it’s still uncomfortable to bring it that low. All the singles with 295 were absolute grinders, but my confidence with pressing is going up after finally getting the chance to push my limits and really strain on this lift.

I’m setting the hooks low enough for me to maintain my arch and upper back tightness when I take the bar out. I just fry my triceps in the process.

B)Pullups=BW x 10, 10, 5, 3 (WTF?)

C)Dips=BW x 25 x 2 easy

NOTES: Bodyweight is down another pound from last Monday. I get down a couple pounds throughout the week, refeed on the weekend (still clean food) but am still down from one week to the next.

4265

[quote]Phill wrote:
upper ME May 28th 07

Nice pre workout regime spend the only sunny day of the weekend chilling at the bar your dad owns in the outdoor beer garden, good friends, sun, some games of pool, smoker cooking lbs of meat and just generally taking it easy, nice stuff

Sleep off the 18 oz steak and now get er done

Decided to do light compound moves with the rehabbing arm instead of the isolation I can in a sense use a higher load and work other muscles and have the same strain on the tendon as putting it in the position of an isolation felt good just Nice and slow

1A) OH DB Clean and Press
(Gimp Arm OH press 35 x 8 (9 sets) strict and slow)
Strict
35 x lot
55 x 8
75 x 5
85 x 3
95 x 3
105 x 3 (2 rep PR)
115 x 1 (10 lb PR)
Push press
125 x 2 (5 lb and 1 rep PR)
strict/push
85 x 6/6 a LOT more here as well
All in all great progress how much is doing the Fat DB the second time getting used to it and how much getting stronger don?t know but was good progress still harder then a reg DB but felt good.
One thing I need to do is get the clean and GO!!! don?t dilly dally sit and think about it. Clean it then PRESS it. I waste a lot of time and strength, did much better today. Need to transfer that to when Im back with the log etc. also same with my squatting etc stop thinking on the heavy stuff and just do it.

1B) one arm Pull down
Gimp arm red band pull down x 10 (9 sets) strict and slow
2warm ups
145 x 3 (6 sets)
70 x a lot
Bumped it 5 lbs

2A) Cable press (gimp arm band press)
These are kind of like an extreme ROM decline press I lean against a pole to avoid using body weight
70 x 12
90 x 8 (2 sets)

2B) DB Row (gimp arm 35 lbs x 10)
150 x 2 sets of 5
80 x some

2C)
Bench reverse crunches
3sets

Light band work on tri?s, bis and lat raise call it a good session great progress
Phill
[/quote]

great PR!! good to see that you are starting to use the arm. I totally expect to see you doing a strongman this time next year.

meat

4266

[quote]Modi wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Apparently, I need to rethink this. Goal is to start in 2 weeks (just found a good training partner).

Let’s try again, I hope this is better and I thank you for your patience as I work on this:

Day 1
ME Lower:
Max Front Squat
RDL’s 3x8-10
Abs: Standing Cable Crunches 4x8-12
calves (for the heck of it) 4x10-12

Day 2
ME Upper (Bench)
Max Flat Bench
OH Presses 4x10-12
Laying DB extensions 4x8-12
bent over Rows: 4x8-10

Day 3: Off to recover from max effort days

Day 4:
Dynamic Lower:
Box Squats 8-12 doubles (@55% of 1RM)
Reverse Hypers 4x8-10
Obliques: undecided 4x8-12
Neck Bridges

Day 5:
Dynamic Bench:
Incline BB bench: 8-10 triples (@55%of 1RM)
Lateral Raises: 4x10-12
Tricep Pressdowns: 4x8-12
Back: Lat Pulldowns 4x8-10

Day 6: 1x100 for chest/arms (or 2x50), and a total of 200m sprinting (4x50meters, or something like that).

Day 7: total recovery.

Any advice is more than welcome. thanks for your patience, again.

AD

AlphaDragon, This setup looks much better than the last one. I like to keep my DE lower in the 60-70% range. Starting at 60% and increasing by 2-3% each week (as long as speed is good) until I hit 70%. Then start over at 60% again.

I find that if I increase my DE upper by much over 60% that the speed slows. So go ahead and start at 55% but don’t be afraid to increase the weight so long as the speed doesn’t suffer.

I’ve bastardized Westside pretty much for my own needs, as have many of us here. One thing that I do is switch my ME day from 3-4 weeks of heavy doubles and singles to 4-5 weeks of 5x5. This is my own doing, but I had good results with it last time, so I’ll continue to do it until I stop getting the desired results.

Bottom line is adapt it to your needs. Train your weaknesses and your big 3 numbers will climb. But above all, know why you are doing certain movements, and determine whether it is helping or not. Good luck.
[/quote]

Great response Modi!! I couldn’t agree more.

the only thing I have to throw in is that if you are just starting out… I wouldn’t be too too concerned with the dynamic work. I think ME and RE with some GPP thrown in is all you will need in the beginning.

meat

4267

Looks pretty solid try it out dont be afraid to feel things listen to your body. but this looks damn basic and solid which is good. In time youll know better what to add subtract main thing now get going and work HARD

Phill

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Apparently, I need to rethink this. Goal is to start in 2 weeks (just found a good training partner).

Let’s try again, I hope this is better and I thank you for your patience as I work on this:

Day 1
ME Lower:
Max Front Squat
RDL’s 3x8-10
Abs: Standing Cable Crunches 4x8-12
calves (for the heck of it) 4x10-12

Day 2
ME Upper (Bench)
Max Flat Bench
OH Presses 4x10-12
Laying DB extensions 4x8-12
bent over Rows: 4x8-10

Day 3: Off to recover from max effort days

Day 4:
Dynamic Lower:
Box Squats 8-12 doubles (@55% of 1RM)
Reverse Hypers 4x8-10
Obliques: undecided 4x8-12
Neck Bridges

Day 5:
Dynamic Bench:
Incline BB bench: 8-10 triples (@55%of 1RM)
Lateral Raises: 4x10-12
Tricep Pressdowns: 4x8-12
Back: Lat Pulldowns 4x8-10

Day 6: 1x100 for chest/arms (or 2x50), and a total of 200m sprinting (4x50meters, or something like that).

Day 7: total recovery.

Any advice is more than welcome. thanks for your patience, again.

AD[/quote]

4268

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

great PR!! good to see that you are starting to use the arm. I totally expect to see you doing a strongman this time next year.

meat

[/quote]

Thanks bro. felt good to use it go back to the doc thisd friday and should get cleared to pick up something over 1lb LOL ha

The OH pressing the 35 felt good like could easily have done more but just didnt want to over step bounds to fast lots of stabilization with that BI etc. I think just keep slow progress and Ill be back fairly quick and healthy.

Still itching to dl but just Know I cant hold that load yet still very tight at full extension

Phill

4269

2007-5-28
ME Bench
135x8
155x2
185x2
205x2
225x2
245x2
270x1,1,(fail) (set PR)

2007-5-29
Bottoms up lockouts (paused)
1-board
135x10
185x5
205x4
225x2
245x2
255x1
265x1 (PR)

3-board
265x2
275x2
285x2
295x1
305x1 (PR)

OH Press (start from the top)
barx10
115x4
135x3
155x2
175x1
182.5xfail

Notes: OHP is okay. Actually didn’t expect to go as high as I did, given the shoulder stress from the lockouts. Started to train last night, but had a bunch of internal stressors and couldn’t focus.
Will work tri’s n back later tonight

Later:
Lying triceps extensions (EZ curl wide)
65x10
85x8
105x6
125x5,5,5

Right shoulder’s staying put on these, finally. Subscap still ain’t right though

4270

ME bench
biceps are still very wrecked from squatting last week. So, I threw on the elbow sleeves for a little support.

3 Board
135x6
315x4
405x3
495x2
585x1
600x1 PR this was a three board PR. I’m not too excited becuase I had the elbow sleeves on. I’ll try it without them in a couple of weeks.

full ROM paused bench
405x10
405x10

inclined dumbell presses- decided to not be lazy. I usually have them handed to me, so today I sat back with them and cleaned to the shoulders.

140’s x 12
140’s x 12

rack lockouts -set at about midpoint.

495x3
565x2

calves

my arms ache…

meat