[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
For those that run 5/3/1 for powerlifting, how have you been incorporating your singles? I’ve been doing what Ben Seath does and do 1-3 sets of .95 percent of my real 1RM.[/quote]
Yeah for my deadlift I used 90% for three singles with 60s rest in the 3/3/x week and 95% for three singles in the 5/3/1 week with 120s rest.
Now I’m running PL for all my lifts, I am doing the singles by feel rather than programming them. But still working up to 95% ish.
[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
I am on M-F; bench/squat/press/deads. My back has been fairly good come deadlift day with this split. My squat assistance days are leg press, good mornings, and abs, so nothing too heavy on the back.
[/quote]
That plan looks good to me. Maybe I’ll just switch to that since I’ll be on my deload next week. I do essentially the same thing on my squat day, except I do reverse lunges instead of the leg press. Are you using the simplest strength template for your good mornings? [/quote]
No, I kind of just do my own thing, usually 3-5 sets of 10. It would probably be a good idea to implement some kind of percentages but have no clue what my 1RM good morning is.[/quote]
I would just do something decently heavy (for like 5-6 reps), plug it into a 1RM calculator, and then pick a very generous training max based off of that. There’s no need to go for a 1RM on good mornings, when you are going to be doing higher reps with them anyway.
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
I am on M-F; bench/squat/press/deads. My back has been fairly good come deadlift day with this split. My squat assistance days are leg press, good mornings, and abs, so nothing too heavy on the back.
[/quote]
That plan looks good to me. Maybe I’ll just switch to that since I’ll be on my deload next week. I do essentially the same thing on my squat day, except I do reverse lunges instead of the leg press. Are you using the simplest strength template for your good mornings? [/quote]
No, I kind of just do my own thing, usually 3-5 sets of 10. It would probably be a good idea to implement some kind of percentages but have no clue what my 1RM good morning is.[/quote]
I would just do something decently heavy (for like 5-6 reps), plug it into a 1RM calculator, and then pick a very generous training max based off of that. There’s no need to go for a 1RM on good mornings, when you are going to be doing higher reps with them anyway.[/quote]
Good idea, thanks.
Anyone doing Wendler’s " Bigger Yoke Program"???
I want to know if its good for beginner like me, who can only Bench, Squat, and Deadlift only little bit heavier than my bodyweight ? Because i find that program have more volumes on assistance exerices
[quote]TheGreatXavi wrote:
Anyone doing Wendler’s " Bigger Yoke Program"???
I want to know if its good for beginner like me, who can only Bench, Squat, and Deadlift only little bit heavier than my bodyweight ? Because i find that program have more volumes on assistance exerices[/quote]
If you are just beginning, you would be better served to focus on getting stronger, both in general and for the yoke. The first rule of getting a big yoke is to be very fucking strong.
So I really like some aspects of 5/3/1 but I’m not a big fan of some other aspects. What I like is the way upper-body training is approached (bench + ohp) but I’m not a big fan of how deadlifting is approached (too many reps at times).
Although I’m sure I’ll get some hate for this and Jim Wendler would bitch slap me, thoughts on just taking the bench and ohp days of 5/3/1 but to train squat and deadlift days differently and a way that I know works better for me? My only issue with doing so is how the deloads might be affected - I’d deload the presses as per 5/3/1 but the squat and deadlift would not be in sync. Would that matter much?
How do you know it is better for you?
Is it because reps on sq / dl is hard?, or do you have any handicap that prevents you from doing reps?.
NB. Being Lazy or painintolerant are not handicaps.
Personaly my dl and sq have improved very much when on the BBB template, but are hard in the beginning of course.
[quote]Backbone wrote:
How do you know it is better for you?
Is it because reps on sq / dl is hard?, or do you have any handicap that prevents you from doing reps?.
NB. Being Lazy or painintolerant are not handicaps.
Personaly my dl and sq have improved very much when on the BBB template, but are hard in the beginning of course.[/quote]
Whilst I’m not doubting 5/3/1 would lead to gains on all the lifts, I’ve always found when I do lower, heavy sets on squats and deadlift they respond well. I’ve tried other routines in the past which required the use of higher reps on them and they’ve responded badly. Of course there are a million variables that could affect these, that’s just from generally knowing what has been good and bad.
I have looked at 5/3/1 for Powerlifting as a possibility but it still doesn’t take away higher reps on things like deadlifts. These feelings of mine are also shared by others, at least on the deadlift.
Anyone ever played around with the BBB rep/set scheme? I want more volume, but I’d like to stick with lower reps. Just curious if somebody has flipped it around to 10 sets of 5 or something else that adds up to 50 reps.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Whilst I’m not doubting 5/3/1 would lead to gains on all the lifts, I’ve always found when I do lower, heavy sets on squats and deadlift they respond well. I’ve tried other routines in the past which required the use of higher reps on them and they’ve responded badly. Of course there are a million variables that could affect these, that’s just from generally knowing what has been good and bad.
I have looked at 5/3/1 for Powerlifting as a possibility but it still doesn’t take away higher reps on things like deadlifts. These feelings of mine are also shared by others, at least on the deadlift.[/quote]
5/3/1 never requires you to do more than 5 reps on deadlifts, and that is only one week per month. Any more than that is up to you and your chosen accessory template.
So you’re saying you never even do a set of 5 on deadlift? I like singles and triples for deadlift too, but if you can’t even do one set of 5 per month for deadlift, you suck.
Okay so technically you don’t have to do more than 5 but the whole idea of the 5+ is that you do, most of the time, push it more than 5. It would be preventing progress if you just did 5 when you get could do 10 - no?
I don’t understand your question. Of course with the right weight I can do 5 reps (or more) on deadlift. It’s not about not being able to do 5 or more, it’s about what I believe works better. If you knew pulling doubles all the time was the best thing for you why would you do anything but pull doubles?
5-3-1 doesn’t “require” more than 5 reps, but the point is to do more, at least until the wave cycles through to the end.
The purpose of taking 10% off your max is so that when you first start a wave on your 5’s day, you are getting around 10 reps; around 8 reps on the 3’s day; and around 6 reps on the 1’s day. I’m not sure why Wendler didn’t just say take a max, and on your 5’s day, use 75%, instead of 85% of your “training max.” There would have been a lot less confusion, I think.
In other words, your 10rm max is generally around 75% of your 1 rm, your 8 rep max is generally around 80% of your 1 rm, and your 6 rm is around 85% of your 1rm.
http://www.exrx.net/.../OneRepMax.html
The percentages are just a way to estimate the number of target reps Wendler wants you to hit to start a wave, he just elected not to explain it that way.
The system is a self-regluated wave-loading periodization scheme rather than a date-specific wave loading periodization scheme, with “5-3-1” as the self-regulating target-rep reset triggers. If you can’t hit this many reps as the weights increase, its time to reset, and start a new wave at around 10, 8, and 6 reps.
So, its not very productive to say that you are “never required” to do more than 5 reps, because that is the whole point of the program.
I guess a way to somewhat rephrase it:
If I were to do 5/3/1 but I want to pull heavier/less reps (but still push myself) would it be a good idea to…
a) Use a higher “working max” (instead of taking 90%, take 95-100%) so I end up using higher weights.
b) In the 5+ (or even 3+) days pull heavy singles/doubles as is explained in 5/3/1 for Powerlifting.
Thoughts? I just feel like for squat and bench higher reps usually translate well to a 1RM but I’ve found reps on deadlift don’t.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I guess a way to somewhat rephrase it:
If I were to do 5/3/1 but I want to pull heavier/less reps (but still push myself) would it be a good idea to…
a) Use a higher “working max” (instead of taking 90%, take 95-100%) so I end up using higher weights.
b) In the 5+ (or even 3+) days pull heavy singles/doubles as is explained in 5/3/1 for Powerlifting.
Thoughts? I just feel like for squat and bench higher reps usually translate well to a 1RM but I’ve found reps on deadlift don’t. [/quote]
It sounds like you and I like training deadlift the same way. I literally never do more than 5 reps for deadlift. I go for rep maxes on bench, press, and even squat, but on deadlift, I either do only the required reps, or more often, I will go up in weight and do maybe three sets of singles.
[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
I guess a way to somewhat rephrase it:
If I were to do 5/3/1 but I want to pull heavier/less reps (but still push myself) would it be a good idea to…
a) Use a higher “working max” (instead of taking 90%, take 95-100%) so I end up using higher weights.
b) In the 5+ (or even 3+) days pull heavy singles/doubles as is explained in 5/3/1 for Powerlifting.
Thoughts? I just feel like for squat and bench higher reps usually translate well to a 1RM but I’ve found reps on deadlift don’t. [/quote]
My personal opinion on the subject is that the 5-3-1 scheme accomplishes the goal of “slow and steady” progress, reduces the risk of injury and overtraining, and provides a simple and motivating template for people to use. The trade off is, you only get “slow and steady” progress and that there are other ways to train that will yield quicker results. I’d suggest playing around with a heavier loading scheme on deads and see how you respond. That’s the only way for you to find out what works for you.
[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
Anyone ever played around with the BBB rep/set scheme? I want more volume, but I’d like to stick with lower reps. Just curious if somebody has flipped it around to 10 sets of 5 or something else that adds up to 50 reps.[/quote]
I have, in the past when running BBB. I dislike high reps in general, but on squat, it just killed me, so I would just add up my reps until I got 50 in. I didn’t notice a difference either way, really.
Is anyone doing the DC principles on accessory movements? I’m thinking about incorporating them in order to cut down on training time, but still keep the intensity high. I want to start incorporating more conditioning so I can move ‘north of vag’.
Conditioning is starting to become important to me, so I want to do incline treadmill sprints on upper days, and prowler push on lower days. On the lower days I just do the 5/3/1 prescribed sets, and a few extra triples, then do prowler.
[quote]aspengc8 wrote:
Is anyone doing the DC principles on accessory movements? I’m thinking about incorporating them in order to cut down on training time, but still keep the intensity high. I want to start incorporating more conditioning so I can move ‘north of vag’.
Conditioning is starting to become important to me, so I want to do incline treadmill sprints on upper days, and prowler push on lower days. On the lower days I just do the 5/3/1 prescribed sets, and a few extra triples, then do prowler.
[/quote]
I would suggest you do not add in the rest pause assistance and conditioning at the same time.
What I would do is reset your training maxes to 90%, just go for required reps (don’t do extra triples) and ease into the conditioning. Don’t go all out from the get go.
After at least 3-4 months of that, start thinking about either going for more reps, adding in heavier work, OR adding in rest pause assistance work. Add in one thing at a time, and give your body time to adjust.
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
[quote]aspengc8 wrote:
Is anyone doing the DC principles on accessory movements? I’m thinking about incorporating them in order to cut down on training time, but still keep the intensity high. I want to start incorporating more conditioning so I can move ‘north of vag’.
Conditioning is starting to become important to me, so I want to do incline treadmill sprints on upper days, and prowler push on lower days. On the lower days I just do the 5/3/1 prescribed sets, and a few extra triples, then do prowler.
[/quote]
I would suggest you do not add in the rest pause assistance and conditioning at the same time.
What I would do is reset your training maxes to 90%, just go for required reps (don’t do extra triples) and ease into the conditioning. Don’t go all out from the get go.
After at least 3-4 months of that, start thinking about either going for more reps, adding in heavier work, OR adding in rest pause assistance work. Add in one thing at a time, and give your body time to adjust.[/quote]
will do. Thanks
I have been running 5/3/1 for about 4 months. Had ran it about a year ago for about 7 months. Anyways, I hurt my back a few weeks back and will probably start DLing and Squatting next week. So I will be off for about 3 weeks. So I’m not sure what I should use for my new percentages because I won’t know how much muscle I lost.
For example, I tried a new cycle with 280 as my training max last week, the thing is I failed on the last set. So if I take 90% of 280 I go back down to a training max of 250, which is what I started with when I restarted 5-3-1 in July( unsure of which month). Does this mean that I haven’t made any progress or no? Thanks in advance guys!!