Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 5

Training Powerlifting
461

[quote]iyvc81 wrote:
I recently started lifting again after a 2 year lay off (1st year i took up distance running, and the following i just bummed)

Took a few weeks to re calibrate my CNS and body and then started 5/3/1 with the rough maxes i got during the recalibration. I more or less ripped off the triumvirate template, would like to know if its good to go :slight_smile:

Day 1
Overhead Press 5/3/1
Kroc Rows
Dips BW 5x10

Day 2
Deadlift 5/3/1
Good Morning 5x10
Decline Situp 5x10

Day 3
Bench Press 5/3/1
Kroc Rows
DB Incline Press (neutral grip) 5x10

Day 4
Zercher Squat 5/3/1 ← no squat rack in gym :confused:
Walking Lunges BW (50ft)
Back Extensions BW+15kg 5x10
Pulldowns 5x10

bummed about the squat, theres no squat rack and im not trained enough with the clean to front squat.
kroc rows i just pull until i hit 25 reps with both hands and move on to the next 'bell
pulldowns coz we dont have any bar to chin on

only been through 2 cycles, but i definitely see progress. i like how 5/3/1 progresses from high reps to low: it gives me the impression im building a muscular base to handle heavy CNS taxing shit later[/quote]

I probably wouldn’t do 5x10 back extensions after your zercher squat. That particular lift taxes the lower back pretty well, as does your deadlifts and good mornings. Back extensions may be overkill.

Also, are you sure there is NOWHERE to do chins? It doesn’t have to be a “chin up bar” just anything stable you can grab ahold of.

462

If your gym doesn’t have a chin up bar, buy one of those cheap door frame ones and do them at home. Chins are godberry, and must be done.

463

figured out two things at the gym today

  1. there is a seated press bench, with the pins (for some inexplicable reason) screwed in at eye level if i stand next to it. im short, but if i stack 2 plates by the bench and step up, i can kinda wedge myself under the bar and do the worlds tiniest good morning to get the bar on my back and off the bench. take three steps back and voila! back squats.

  2. i was looking around for somewhere to do chins: found it under the staircase. stood under it, reached up the highest step i could find and did something like a sternum pullup (had to angle my body at the top to avoid smashing the cranium into the bottom of the next step)

so day 4 for the next cycle can look something like this

Day 4
Back Squats 5/3/1
Walking Lunges
Pullups sets of 4 (yes i suck at these)
Ab work (experimenting with seated ab crunch on the pulldown machine)

464

[quote]iyvc81 wrote:
figured out two things at the gym today

  1. there is a seated press bench, with the pins (for some inexplicable reason) screwed in at eye level if i stand next to it. im short, but if i stack 2 plates by the bench and step up, i can kinda wedge myself under the bar and do the worlds tiniest good morning to get the bar on my back and off the bench. take three steps back and voila! back squats.

  2. i was looking around for somewhere to do chins: found it under the staircase. stood under it, reached up the highest step i could find and did something like a sternum pullup (had to angle my body at the top to avoid smashing the cranium into the bottom of the next step)
    [/quote]

Haha, brilliant. I love human ingenuity, even if it sounds dangerous as all hell…

465

For pull up progressions I’m actually doing the following:

Month 1 - Sets of 5
Month 2 - Sets of 6
etc…

Its SLOW progress, but in a few months time it will be sets of 10… And isnt that what the whole damn program is based around. Dont worry about your starting point… Just get lifting and before you know it 12 months have gone by

466

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
For pull up progressions I’m actually doing the following:

Month 1 - Sets of 5
Month 2 - Sets of 6
etc…

Its SLOW progress, but in a few months time it will be sets of 10… And isnt that what the whole damn program is based around. Dont worry about your starting point… Just get lifting and before you know it 12 months have gone by[/quote]

Doing this type of progression myself, the goal is 3x10 on chins in the fifth cycle, I am doing 3x6 now( first cycle ) and am positiv that such a simple progression will work for a long time. Just found it cool that someone else are doing something similar.

467

[quote]iyvc81 wrote:

  1. i was looking around for somewhere to do chins: found it under the staircase. stood under it, reached up the highest step i could find and did something like a sternum pullup (had to angle my body at the top to avoid smashing the cranium into the bottom of the next step)
    [/quote]

That’s a legit variation. To me it’s like a mix between a row and a chin. I’ll sometimes go out of my way to do something like that by grabbing the narrow neutral grip thing for cable rows and put it over a chin bar or any bar high and sturdy enough and pull myself up and lean my head and upper back back and down until my sternum touches the bar. It’s just another variation.

468

The stairwell is an awesome idea. I try and do a different grip for almost every set. All hit the back slightly differently, and as Jim says, its good to be strong as many different ways as possible

  • Standard
  • Pronated
  • Neutral Grip
  • Wide grip
  • Dog Bone

etc…

469

I had an idea about 5/3/1 and the de-load week. This is definitely not in the program but it is an idea, and everything has to start as an idea before it becomes a thing. So here goes.

During the 5/3/1 de-load week, I had an idea rather than de-loading from whichever core lifts you are doing (the big 4 or variations of said 4), that one might run the de-load week as the 5’s week of 5/3/1 but with either a different variation of the core lift, or an altogether different lift. For example…

Did a cycle of 5/3/1. 5 week, 3 week, 5/3/1 week on the military press. Now, instead of running the de-load week as it is written, you would run a new 5’s week, but with, say the seated military press instead with the same percentages applying during the regular 5’s week. Then after this de-load / variations 5’s week, you would move into your regular 5/3/1 cycle on the military press again like before. It wouldn’t have to be a variation of the lift, it could be something like chin-ups done in this de-load / variations 5’s week instead.

The Westside method says 3 weeks is about the longest someone can push really hard for, and this de-load week would introduce a different stimulus, just like how they vary exercises every week (or whatever the hell they do, it’s probably something like that. Only Louie and his pals really know I suppose), this different stimulus would still be giving your body a break and allowing the trainee to push themselves on a lift that would help out their core lift!

Anyway this thought just came to me today and I figured I would post it here to see what you all think. By the way, I am new here. Nice to be here, and I will probably try this approach to the de-load weeks once my shoulder is healed up (dislocated a few weeks ago).

Thanks, BlackPanther.

470

[quote]BlackPanther wrote:
I had an idea about 5/3/1 and the de-load week. This is definitely not in the program but it is an idea, and everything has to start as an idea before it becomes a thing. So here goes.

During the 5/3/1 de-load week, I had an idea rather than de-loading from whichever core lifts you are doing (the big 4 or variations of said 4), that one might run the de-load week as the 5’s week of 5/3/1 but with either a different variation of the core lift, or an altogether different lift. For example…

Did a cycle of 5/3/1. 5 week, 3 week, 5/3/1 week on the military press. Now, instead of running the de-load week as it is written, you would run a new 5’s week, but with, say the seated military press instead with the same percentages applying during the regular 5’s week. Then after this de-load / variations 5’s week, you would move into your regular 5/3/1 cycle on the military press again like before. It wouldn’t have to be a variation of the lift, it could be something like chin-ups done in this de-load / variations 5’s week instead.

The Westside method says 3 weeks is about the longest someone can push really hard for, and this de-load week would introduce a different stimulus, just like how they vary exercises every week (or whatever the hell they do, it’s probably something like that. Only Louie and his pals really know I suppose), this different stimulus would still be giving your body a break and allowing the trainee to push themselves on a lift that would help out their core lift!

Anyway this thought just came to me today and I figured I would post it here to see what you all think. By the way, I am new here. Nice to be here, and I will probably try this approach to the de-load weeks once my shoulder is healed up (dislocated a few weeks ago).

Thanks, BlackPanther.[/quote]

The whole purpose of the deload week is to deload. Changing to an equally challenging, but different movement pattern doesn’t fit that mold.

Even with the westside system, actual deload weeks are built in at the end of each “phase” or whatever they call it.

471

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]BlackPanther wrote:
I had an idea about 5/3/1 and the de-load week. This is definitely not in the program but it is an idea, and everything has to start as an idea before it becomes a thing. So here goes.

During the 5/3/1 de-load week, I had an idea rather than de-loading from whichever core lifts you are doing (the big 4 or variations of said 4), that one might run the de-load week as the 5’s week of 5/3/1 but with either a different variation of the core lift, or an altogether different lift. For example…

Did a cycle of 5/3/1. 5 week, 3 week, 5/3/1 week on the military press. Now, instead of running the de-load week as it is written, you would run a new 5’s week, but with, say the seated military press instead with the same percentages applying during the regular 5’s week. Then after this de-load / variations 5’s week, you would move into your regular 5/3/1 cycle on the military press again like before. It wouldn’t have to be a variation of the lift, it could be something like chin-ups done in this de-load / variations 5’s week instead.

The Westside method says 3 weeks is about the longest someone can push really hard for, and this de-load week would introduce a different stimulus, just like how they vary exercises every week (or whatever the hell they do, it’s probably something like that. Only Louie and his pals really know I suppose), this different stimulus would still be giving your body a break and allowing the trainee to push themselves on a lift that would help out their core lift!

Anyway this thought just came to me today and I figured I would post it here to see what you all think. By the way, I am new here. Nice to be here, and I will probably try this approach to the de-load weeks once my shoulder is healed up (dislocated a few weeks ago).

Thanks, BlackPanther.[/quote]

The whole purpose of the deload week is to deload. Changing to an equally challenging, but different movement pattern doesn’t fit that mold.

Even with the westside system, actual deload weeks are built in at the end of each “phase” or whatever they call it.[/quote]

Can you point me to where they said that they had a de-load week? I don’t want this to become a stupid thread about westside and their methods, but I was simply under the impression that they went for a week or so on a max effort exercise, and that they varied that all the time with no de-load, and for dynamic work that they would up the percentages to a certain amount then simply start a new wave of dynamic with the lighter percentages and worked back up.

472

[quote]BlackPanther wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]BlackPanther wrote:
I had an idea about 5/3/1 and the de-load week. This is definitely not in the program but it is an idea, and everything has to start as an idea before it becomes a thing. So here goes.

During the 5/3/1 de-load week, I had an idea rather than de-loading from whichever core lifts you are doing (the big 4 or variations of said 4), that one might run the de-load week as the 5’s week of 5/3/1 but with either a different variation of the core lift, or an altogether different lift. For example…

Did a cycle of 5/3/1. 5 week, 3 week, 5/3/1 week on the military press. Now, instead of running the de-load week as it is written, you would run a new 5’s week, but with, say the seated military press instead with the same percentages applying during the regular 5’s week. Then after this de-load / variations 5’s week, you would move into your regular 5/3/1 cycle on the military press again like before. It wouldn’t have to be a variation of the lift, it could be something like chin-ups done in this de-load / variations 5’s week instead.

The Westside method says 3 weeks is about the longest someone can push really hard for, and this de-load week would introduce a different stimulus, just like how they vary exercises every week (or whatever the hell they do, it’s probably something like that. Only Louie and his pals really know I suppose), this different stimulus would still be giving your body a break and allowing the trainee to push themselves on a lift that would help out their core lift!

Anyway this thought just came to me today and I figured I would post it here to see what you all think. By the way, I am new here. Nice to be here, and I will probably try this approach to the de-load weeks once my shoulder is healed up (dislocated a few weeks ago).

Thanks, BlackPanther.[/quote]

The whole purpose of the deload week is to deload. Changing to an equally challenging, but different movement pattern doesn’t fit that mold.

Even with the westside system, actual deload weeks are built in at the end of each “phase” or whatever they call it.[/quote]

Can you point me to where they said that they had a de-load week? I don’t want this to become a stupid thread about westside and their methods, but I was simply under the impression that they went for a week or so on a max effort exercise, and that they varied that all the time with no de-load, and for dynamic work that they would up the percentages to a certain amount then simply start a new wave of dynamic with the lighter percentages and worked back up.

[/quote]

In the powerlifting forum, there’s a thread about the westside system. StormTheBeach, who is very strong and has been training with the westside system answers a ton of questions about it, as well as laying out the basic template they follow. He has trained at westside several times under louie simmons, he knows all about it.

What you said about changing max effort exercises and dynamic percentage waves is true. But they also break up their training into blocks, with a deload after each.

Like this:

Accumulation block
1 week deload

Intesification block
1 week deload

Peaking block (I think they call it something different)
1 week deload

Meet

473

For those that run 5/3/1 for powerlifting, how have you been incorporating your singles? I’ve been doing what Ben Seath does and do 1-3 sets of .95 percent of my real 1RM.

474

[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
For those that run 5/3/1 for powerlifting, how have you been incorporating your singles? I’ve been doing what Ben Seath does and do 1-3 sets of .95 percent of my real 1RM.[/quote]

I’m 9 weeks out from a meet and just started easing into singles at 12 weeks, which was the beginning of my 3rd cycle. I stayed in the lower percentages, probably around 88-92%(even did a double with a few exercises), but will really ramp the intensity up for my 8-4wks.

Anyone else follow the typical M-F press/dl/bench/squat and find on the heavy weeks your back is still recovering from the deads on squat day? Both heavy weeks my squat workout was shit, and bench wasn’t fun either.

Because of that I think I’m going to reverse my dl cycle so it has its own heavy week. That way I’ll have 96hrs instead of 72 between heavy lower days. Not to mention that heavy squats are a lot easier to recover from then deadlifts. Any thoughts?

475

Here’s my split, just want to make sure it balanced assistance wise.

5/3/1 Bench

db bench

tricep pushdown

Bicep curl

5/3/1 Squat

Front squat

leg curl

row

5/3/1 Press

Incline bench

rear delt/ side delt work

row

5/3/1 DL

Back raises

lat pulldown ( can only do 3 chins )

shrugs

Really focusing on bringing up my back. I want to add in skullcrushers and some sort o DL variation ( rdl, sldl) but not sure where to program them.

476

[quote]jtownlax wrote:
Here’s my split, just want to make sure it balanced assistance wise.[/quote]

My suggestions would be…
Do rows on bench day instead of with squats.
You could add good mornings/RDLs to your deadlift day or…put front squats with deadlifts and good mornings/RDLs with squats. Personally, I like doing a squat and hip hinge variation both leg workouts.

As for the traps, you could just keep doing shrugs, or do 1-2 heavy sets of rack pulls on deadlift day. Snatch grip pulls if you really want to fry your back.

I don’t really have anything on the skullcrushers. They hurt my elbows so I just do rope pushdowns on my bench day.

Congrats on doing a good program and you can definitely get good results with what you’re doing. These are just a couple suggestions that I personally follow myself.

477

mighty mouse thanks for the suggestion man! I’ll forget about skullcrushers, add a row to my bench day and rdl’s to my squat day.

478

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:

Anyone else follow the typical M-F press/dl/bench/squat and find on the heavy weeks your back is still recovering from the deads on squat day? Both heavy weeks my squat workout was shit, and bench wasn’t fun either.

Because of that I think I’m going to reverse my dl cycle so it has its own heavy week. That way I’ll have 96hrs instead of 72 between heavy lower days. Not to mention that heavy squats are a lot easier to recover from then deadlifts. Any thoughts?[/quote]

I am on M-F; bench/squat/press/deads. My back has been fairly good come deadlift day with this split. My squat assistance days are leg press, good mornings, and abs, so nothing too heavy on the back.

479

[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
I am on M-F; bench/squat/press/deads. My back has been fairly good come deadlift day with this split. My squat assistance days are leg press, good mornings, and abs, so nothing too heavy on the back.
[/quote]

That plan looks good to me. Maybe I’ll just switch to that since I’ll be on my deload next week. I do essentially the same thing on my squat day, except I do reverse lunges instead of the leg press. Are you using the simplest strength template for your good mornings?

480

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:

[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
I am on M-F; bench/squat/press/deads. My back has been fairly good come deadlift day with this split. My squat assistance days are leg press, good mornings, and abs, so nothing too heavy on the back.
[/quote]

That plan looks good to me. Maybe I’ll just switch to that since I’ll be on my deload next week. I do essentially the same thing on my squat day, except I do reverse lunges instead of the leg press. Are you using the simplest strength template for your good mornings? [/quote]

No, I kind of just do my own thing, usually 3-5 sets of 10. It would probably be a good idea to implement some kind of percentages but have no clue what my 1RM good morning is.