Anyone try increading the set monthly increments above what’s recommended? Instead of 5 for upper and 10 for lower, anyone try 10 for uppr and 20 for lower?
[quote]moshcamp wrote:
Anyone try increading the set monthly increments above what’s recommended? Instead of 5 for upper and 10 for lower, anyone try 10 for uppr and 20 for lower?
[/quote]
I know some people use 5% monthly increases instead of the set poundages. So if you’re deadlifting 200kgs your increase would be 10kg instead of 5kg. Personally I haven’t done this.
[quote]moshcamp wrote:
Anyone try increading the set monthly increments above what’s recommended? Instead of 5 for upper and 10 for lower, anyone try 10 for uppr and 20 for lower?
[/quote]
Don’t do that.
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
[quote]DeadKong wrote:
[quote]dlp wrote:
An important point most people miss is that you are neither limited by or forced to do the 5/10 pound increases. For instance if first cycle you squat 300x 10 on the 5 day and second cycle you add 10 to max and do 307 x 13 you’ve likely improved your max by more than the 10 pound!
[/quote]
this is something I have been wondering approximately myself. I just am finishing my first cycle after some time off lifting. (a few weeks off). I am going on muscle memory so I amended max weights for calculating purposes throughout this first cycle. Now that i am just about to deload, I was thinking of using 3rd week achievement to calculate maxes for the next cycle. Then likely keep it at that for the whole cycle since I have already come back to lifting after the short layoff. Does anyone think this is reasonable?
Edit: oh, and I am keeping a journal in over 35 lifter, Wendler starts about haflway through the journal.[/quote]
Thanks for the response. Still, to better get the idea in my mind, this: I on last week 3 set deadlifted 315lbs for 6. That is approximately a max of 370lbs. Of course I will deload next week, no higher than 70% of…what?..that 370lbs?.. and calculate next cycle based on that same number without mid cycle tampering, as I have already achieved my muscle memory comeback?
I would keep the weights light, since that is a big part of the program.[/quote]
[quote]DeadKong wrote:
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
[quote]DeadKong wrote:
[quote]dlp wrote:
An important point most people miss is that you are neither limited by or forced to do the 5/10 pound increases. For instance if first cycle you squat 300x 10 on the 5 day and second cycle you add 10 to max and do 307 x 13 you’ve likely improved your max by more than the 10 pound!
[/quote]
this is something I have been wondering approximately myself. I just am finishing my first cycle after some time off lifting. (a few weeks off). I am going on muscle memory so I amended max weights for calculating purposes throughout this first cycle. Now that i am just about to deload, I was thinking of using 3rd week achievement to calculate maxes for the next cycle. Then likely keep it at that for the whole cycle since I have already come back to lifting after the short layoff. Does anyone think this is reasonable?
Edit: oh, and I am keeping a journal in over 35 lifter, Wendler starts about haflway through the journal.[/quote]
Thanks for the response. Still, to better get the idea in my mind, this: I on last week 3 set deadlifted 315lbs for 6. That is approximately a max of 370lbs. Of course I will deload next week, no higher than 70% of…what?..that 370lbs?.. and calculate next cycle based on that same number without mid cycle tampering, as I have already achieved my muscle memory comeback?
I would keep the weights light, since that is a big part of the program.[/quote]
[/quote]
The deload percentages are 40, 50, and 60 all for 5 reps. This is based off of your training max. The next cycle, increase your training max for 5 or 10 pounds for upper and lower lifts, repectfully.
Don’t increase it more then this. The program is meant to be steady progress. Increasing your lifts by more then this per cycle is going to limit the amount of progres you make, just be patient, it will pay off.
BUMP because I am back on this super awesome program and am excited as hell!!
This is more of a benching question rather than 5/3/1, but whatever.
Benching feet placement, does how short you are indicate where it’s best to place your feet? I am five NOTHIN’, does this mean it’s better to be all tucked in tight to the side of the bench, or still feet out wide or what? I have tried so many different foot positionings and none of them really make me feel more or less stable on the bench.
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
BUMP because I am back on this super awesome program and am excited as hell!!
This is more of a benching question rather than 5/3/1, but whatever.
Benching feet placement, does how short you are indicate where it’s best to place your feet? I am five NOTHIN’, does this mean it’s better to be all tucked in tight to the side of the bench, or still feet out wide or what? I have tried so many different foot positionings and none of them really make me feel more or less stable on the bench. [/quote]
I’ve messed around a little with this too. I’m sure it will be different for different people due to leverages and what not, and I’m 6’2" so take this with a grain of salt.
For me, I’ve found that keeping the feet closer to the bench helps me out more. I feel like it gives me better hip drive since the force from the feet up isn’t traveling in as much of an angle. Increasing the angle of the force decreases the amount of force transfered, in general.
[quote]DeadKong wrote:
[quote]dlp wrote:
An important point most people miss is that you are neither limited by or forced to do the 5/10 pound increases. For instance if first cycle you squat 300x 10 on the 5 day and second cycle you add 10 to max and do 307 x 13 you’ve likely improved your max by more than the 10 pound!
[/quote]
this is something I have been wondering approximately myself. I just am finishing my first cycle after some time off lifting. (a few weeks off). I am going on muscle memory so I amended max weights for calculating purposes throughout this first cycle. Now that i am just about to deload, I was thinking of using 3rd week achievement to calculate maxes for the next cycle. Then likely keep it at that for the whole cycle since I have already come back to lifting after the short layoff. Does anyone think this is reasonable?
Edit: oh, and I am keeping a journal in over 35 lifter, Wendler starts about haflway through the journal.[/quote]
I think the point dlp is making here isn’t to jump ahead in weights. You can progress more than the 5/10 pounds increases allow, but consider that you have another trick up your sleeve: the rep. It’s the story of the Kroc row. Matt couldn’t put more weight on the dumbbell, so he just went for rep PRs. I feel like this is part of the 5/3/1 philosophy, at least my perspective on it. Eventually, the weights will just get too heavy for you and you’ll reset anyway. Until then, just ride it out.
A word on the people talking about the weight increases after cycles:
Why mess with it? In any scenario you can come up with that would lead you to thinking you should add more, I’d argue that you logically should not. In the example of the 300x10 one cycle, to 305x13 the next cycle? What the person did worked, period.
The only way I think you should mess with this system is if you really have no damn clue what your 1RM is. Coming back from injury/break, just don’t max much, switching from BB to PL, drastic form changes, stuff like that.
And finally, my personal experience: in my last 8 months of lifting, in which I did about 6 months of 5/3/1 as written, and the last two slightly modified for me, I’ve added about 90 pounds to my squat. My Training max currently? Only up 15 pounds.
Has anyone tried periodizing the “big” assistance lifts like wendler laid out in the 2nd edition? I just started using his template from the book, and I’m liking it so far.
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
A word on the people talking about the weight increases after cycles:
Why mess with it? In any scenario you can come up with that would lead you to thinking you should add more, I’d argue that you logically should not. In the example of the 300x10 one cycle, to 305x13 the next cycle? What the person did worked, period.
The only way I think you should mess with this system is if you really have no damn clue what your 1RM is. Coming back from injury/break, just don’t max much, switching from BB to PL, drastic form changes, stuff like that.
And finally, my personal experience: in my last 8 months of lifting, in which I did about 6 months of 5/3/1 as written, and the last two slightly modified for me, I’ve added about 90 pounds to my squat. My Training max currently? Only up 15 pounds. [/quote]
I definitely agree with not messing with 5/3/1. There is already enough flexibility built into the system for change-it-up junkies like myself. No need to mess with the basic mechanics of the routine.
Nice squat gains; what were your starting and current PRs? Very interesting to see the correlation between training max and PR - ie light training max still contributing to big PR gains. Also, when during your cycles did you test your 1RMs? Or are you basing this on predicted max?
[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
A word on the people talking about the weight increases after cycles:
Why mess with it? In any scenario you can come up with that would lead you to thinking you should add more, I’d argue that you logically should not. In the example of the 300x10 one cycle, to 305x13 the next cycle? What the person did worked, period.
The only way I think you should mess with this system is if you really have no damn clue what your 1RM is. Coming back from injury/break, just don’t max much, switching from BB to PL, drastic form changes, stuff like that.
And finally, my personal experience: in my last 8 months of lifting, in which I did about 6 months of 5/3/1 as written, and the last two slightly modified for me, I’ve added about 90 pounds to my squat. My Training max currently? Only up 15 pounds. [/quote]
I definitely agree with not messing with 5/3/1. There is already enough flexibility built into the system for change-it-up junkies like myself. No need to mess with the basic mechanics of the routine.
Nice squat gains; what were your starting and current PRs? Very interesting to see the correlation between training max and PR - ie light training max still contributing to big PR gains. Also, when during your cycles did you test your 1RMs? Or are you basing this on predicted max?[/quote]
Before 5/3/1 I had lifted on my own without taking it seriously at all. I never full squatted, as I thought I was going deep enough, and wasn’t even close. First real attempt at a rep max full squat was 315x3, and they were still iffy depth. That was 8 months ago. Today I squatted 405x2 to depth, with maybe a rep or two in the tank, but 2 was a PR already so I stopped there (will go for 3+ next time) Seems like 90 pounds gain is close enough for the purpose of this discussion.
Part of that though, was once I dialed in my form a bit, the weight caught up quickly (I could half squat mid/high 400s). I got 365 to depth 1 month later. So in the last 7 months my squat has gone up 60ish pounds. However the next few months after that I kinda stalled out. Strength gains seem to come in spurts for me. This last month I changed my program slightly and broke every rep PR from 1 to 10, some multiple times.
As for when I test 1RM? On the platform. I consider myself an intermediate lifter, and I feel like intermediates don’t need that particular stimulus. All I need is to feel a heavy weight in my hands/on my back here and there. Sure, it might be a 1 rep PR, but it’s never a full max attempt. I hope that makes sense. I do these heavy singles on the 3s or 5/3/1 weeks. On the 5s week, I often just do required reps and some assistance.
Point of all this is, don’t let your ego get in the way of setting a proper training max. In fact, lower is even better, from what I’ve seen. If its set a bit low, you are open to blow away your 1+ and 3+ sets, and theres more room to work above those weights.
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Has anyone tried periodizing the “big” assistance lifts like wendler laid out in the 2nd edition? I just started using his template from the book, and I’m liking it so far.[/quote]
Big assistance = BBB? Or just compound assistance?
If I recall correctly, Mr. Tate periodizes his volume.
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
A word on the people talking about the weight increases after cycles:
Why mess with it? In any scenario you can come up with that would lead you to thinking you should add more, I’d argue that you logically should not. In the example of the 300x10 one cycle, to 305x13 the next cycle? What the person did worked, period.
The only way I think you should mess with this system is if you really have no damn clue what your 1RM is. Coming back from injury/break, just don’t max much, switching from BB to PL, drastic form changes, stuff like that.
And finally, my personal experience: in my last 8 months of lifting, in which I did about 6 months of 5/3/1 as written, and the last two slightly modified for me, I’ve added about 90 pounds to my squat. My Training max currently? Only up 15 pounds. [/quote]
I definitely agree with not messing with 5/3/1. There is already enough flexibility built into the system for change-it-up junkies like myself. No need to mess with the basic mechanics of the routine.
Nice squat gains; what were your starting and current PRs? Very interesting to see the correlation between training max and PR - ie light training max still contributing to big PR gains. Also, when during your cycles did you test your 1RMs? Or are you basing this on predicted max?[/quote]
Before 5/3/1 I had lifted on my own without taking it seriously at all. I never full squatted, as I thought I was going deep enough, and wasn’t even close. First real attempt at a rep max full squat was 315x3, and they were still iffy depth. That was 8 months ago. Today I squatted 405x2 to depth, with maybe a rep or two in the tank, but 2 was a PR already so I stopped there (will go for 3+ next time) Seems like 90 pounds gain is close enough for the purpose of this discussion.
Part of that though, was once I dialed in my form a bit, the weight caught up quickly (I could half squat mid/high 400s). I got 365 to depth 1 month later. So in the last 7 months my squat has gone up 60ish pounds. However the next few months after that I kinda stalled out. Strength gains seem to come in spurts for me. This last month I changed my program slightly and broke every rep PR from 1 to 10, some multiple times.
As for when I test 1RM? On the platform. I consider myself an intermediate lifter, and I feel like intermediates don’t need that particular stimulus. All I need is to feel a heavy weight in my hands/on my back here and there. Sure, it might be a 1 rep PR, but it’s never a full max attempt. I hope that makes sense. I do these heavy singles on the 3s or 5/3/1 weeks. On the 5s week, I often just do required reps and some assistance.
Point of all this is, don’t let your ego get in the way of setting a proper training max. In fact, lower is even better, from what I’ve seen. If its set a bit low, you are open to blow away your 1+ and 3+ sets, and theres more room to work above those weights.[/quote]
That certainly does make sense - thanks a lot for the detailed rundown man!
I’ve only just started back squatting about 2 cycles ago as I didn’t have a cage until recently
so I only front squatted. Already the 5/3/1 is doing wonders for it though - hopefully in a few months I will have a similar story.
[quote]TisDrew wrote:
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Has anyone tried periodizing the “big” assistance lifts like wendler laid out in the 2nd edition? I just started using his template from the book, and I’m liking it so far.[/quote]
Big assistance = BBB? Or just compound assistance?
If I recall correctly, Mr. Tate periodizes his volume.[/quote]
When Wendler say’s “big” assistance exercise, he’s referring to front squat, safety bar squat, stiff legged deadlift, good morning, close grip bench and incline press.
[quote]panzerfaust wrote:
[quote]TisDrew wrote:
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Has anyone tried periodizing the “big” assistance lifts like wendler laid out in the 2nd edition? I just started using his template from the book, and I’m liking it so far.[/quote]
Big assistance = BBB? Or just compound assistance?
If I recall correctly, Mr. Tate periodizes his volume.[/quote]
When Wendler say’s “big” assistance exercise, he’s referring to front squat, safety bar squat, stiff legged deadlift, good morning, close grip bench and incline press.[/quote]
Yep, this stuff. It’s in the 2nd edition.
I looked at Jim’s site and I’m not sure what’s different about the 2nd edition from the first 5/3/1 eBook? Does Jim introduce some new stuff? I’d love to buy it if it’s worthwhile, the 1st book was great.
Is the 2nd edition different from 5/3/1 for powerlifting?
[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
I looked at Jim’s site and I’m not sure what’s different about the 2nd edition from the first 5/3/1 eBook? Does Jim introduce some new stuff? I’d love to buy it if it’s worthwhile, the 1st book was great. [/quote]
“The 5/3/1 2nd Edition features new chapters on programming assistance training for all the big assistance lifts. No more questions on what weights to do and what exercises to choose from. Full body training to increase your squatting and overall strength. Simple and effective ways to eat for size and strength are revealed. Jim also covers how to combine 5/3/1 and Crossfit-style conditioning for maximum benefits and recovery. Finally, rest/pause training for assistance work for building size and strength is programmed for maximum benefit.”
^And then some.
[quote]S C 0 0 Z E wrote:
[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
I looked at Jim’s site and I’m not sure what’s different about the 2nd edition from the first 5/3/1 eBook? Does Jim introduce some new stuff? I’d love to buy it if it’s worthwhile, the 1st book was great. [/quote]
“The 5/3/1 2nd Edition features new chapters on programming assistance training for all the big assistance lifts. No more questions on what weights to do and what exercises to choose from. Full body training to increase your squatting and overall strength. Simple and effective ways to eat for size and strength are revealed. Jim also covers how to combine 5/3/1 and Crossfit-style conditioning for maximum benefits and recovery. Finally, rest/pause training for assistance work for building size and strength is programmed for maximum benefit.”
^And then some.[/quote]
Sweet, thanks.