for myself, i just deadlift and do db rows. db rows have made a big impact on my deadlift.
Switch to BBB on deadlift day, hit your numbers then do 5x10 deadlift superset with some gut work. doing the high rep deadlifts will also help your grip. ditto on the pronated grip. you should always do the bbb that way.
[quote]OT wrote:
I should have specified better; the only rule i set on db rows is that I reach a total of 50 reps. Usually I do one all out set and then a couple easier ones after that. Unfortunately my gyms heaviest dumbell is 100 pounds. Yeah i’d never replace my deadlifts i love them way to much for that. Do you train your grip directly at all or just through high rep deads/ db rows?[/quote]
Ok, that’s a little different. My gym only goes up to 100 lbs as well, so I end up doing AMRAP for several sets. Recently they purchased Olympic db’s so I make my own. If the dumbbell weight, or lack of weight, is holding you back do not avoid using machines. I have used Hammer Strength row, alternating hands for variety.
I have never trained my grip directly (yet) and have never needed to. As mjnewland and others suggested, use a double overhand grip until that gives then switch to alternated. I actually start off double overhand, then my weaker alternated grip, then my stronger alternated, then straps if needed. I can hold a lot for a single or in short bursts. Heavy deadlifts for reps is very tiring and in no way should represent your ability to pull a single.
[quote]OT wrote:
I really want to work rack pulls into my deadlift day and i was hoping some of you more experienced guys could help me out
this is my current workout
531 deadlift
5x10 db rows
2xmax shrugs
2-3xlat pulldowns
[/quote]
If you really, really want to throw rack pulls in here, I would drop the shrugs and maybe even the lat pulldowns, depending on what you kind of weights you are pulling. I would also probably do them in this order: DL, Rack Pulls, DB Rows. Again, this is only if you want to do rack pulls for the sake of doing rack pulls. Most people I know get little to no carryover to their DL with rack pulls.
Now, if you’re just looking to add in some grip work, just add something simple in twice a week or so. After a bench day just do some double overhand barbell holds for time. Or something like that. It doesn’t take much to add in some grip work. If you’re looking for grip help with DL’s and shrugs, I would stick to holding-type grip work. This will have more carryover to the DL than, say, grippers and such.
With all this being said, I don’t see a problem using straps. If you don’t compete in powerlifting, who cares about straps? And if you’re worried about your grip on shrugs, come on – they’re shrugs. Just use the straps.
Could someone very briefly given me the theory behind BBB? I’m sure this information has been provided before so I’ll appreciate the patience anyone has to explain it. I understand it stands for Big But Boring and involves 5 sets of 10 at a very managable weight after your 5/3/1 on that same lift? Why does Wendler suggest this and is it well geared when your focus is on strength?
[quote]MementoMori wrote:
Could someone very briefly given me the theory behind BBB? I’m sure this information has been provided before so I’ll appreciate the patience anyone has to explain it. I understand it stands for Big But Boring and involves 5 sets of 10 at a very managable weight after your 5/3/1 on that same lift? Why does Wendler suggest this and is it well geared when your focus is on strength?[/quote]
It reinforces technique via lighter weights after your heavy lifts for the day. It also is great for hypertrophy due to the volume aspect of it (I personally get a great pump from it). For deadlifts and squats, it can be seen as a little conditioning.
My squat is way, way below my deadlift (>100diff.), so I replaced squat day with front squats and deadlift day to low bar wide stance parallel squat day. I still want to practice the deadlift though. To make things worse, I have to deadlift with hex plates. Would just doing as many singles as I can (70-80% of actual max) in like a 10-15 period after the back squatting be good for maintaining dl strength.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
My squat is way, way below my deadlift (>100diff.), so I replaced squat day with front squats and deadlift day to low bar wide stance parallel squat day. I still want to practice the deadlift though. To make things worse, I have to deadlift with hex plates. Would just doing as many singles as I can (70-80% of actual max) in like a 10-15 period after the back squatting be good for maintaining dl strength. [/quote]
If you’re just looking to maintain, you’d probably be fine with only doing 3-5 singles in the 85-90% range every two or three weeks. It doesn’t take much to maintain.
Do Dips have any place in the BBB template? What day do you think is best to stick them in?
[quote]jt1 wrote:
Do Dips have any place in the BBB template? What day do you think is best to stick them in? [/quote]
Yes. Read The Book.
[quote]TisDrew wrote:
[quote]MementoMori wrote:
Could someone very briefly given me the theory behind BBB? I’m sure this information has been provided before so I’ll appreciate the patience anyone has to explain it. I understand it stands for Big But Boring and involves 5 sets of 10 at a very managable weight after your 5/3/1 on that same lift? Why does Wendler suggest this and is it well geared when your focus is on strength?[/quote]
It reinforces technique via lighter weights after your heavy lifts for the day. It also is great for hypertrophy due to the volume aspect of it (I personally get a great pump from it). For deadlifts and squats, it can be seen as a little conditioning. [/quote]
TisDrew, I’m not picking on you because you’re really trying.
BBB is not good for hypertrophy because … bodybuilders do not train that way. Now if you did 5x10 ramped to a top set … now you’ve got something. But then why would you do that since you just got done squatting (or whatever day it is). I definitely agree that it reinforces technique, but I never got stronger or bigger doing BBB just really sore. Also agree big time on the conditioning.
MementoMori, I would recommend doing the Triumvarate or picking a couple of good assistance exercises ramped to a top set over BBB any day.
BBB is good if you really don’t want to do several exercises for that day and want to feel wiped out.
I was wondering whether anyone doing the BBB template got any noticable size gains with strength. Was it maybe a factor of not eating enough or is it just too much?
That’s what I’ve been doing for the most part Dude, thanks for theory, it makes sense.
I gotta respectfully disagree (first time too) on this one with you Dude. I think it’s an excellent way to help with hypertrophy because of the volume. Most bodybuilders train with typically more volume that the average person regardless of the weight as it pertains their max lifts. That aside, IMHO, doing 5x10 of whatever lift you did also reinforces the movement pattern. That makes your body more efficient and therefore will help add weight to the lift. On page 47 of 5-3-1 Jim mentions BBB (boring but BIG [as is muscle size]) adding muscle.
Think of it this way too:
If you are using 50% of your training max for 5x10. The next cycle you start you will use 5 or 10# depending on what lift. Therefore, your assistance weight goes up as well. It is a very easy way to add volume in the long run. As your training max goes up, so does your assistance. Every month, you add assistance volume and adding volume is a way to build muscle. It is quite boring but it works.
I have gained size using BBB. Not huge immediate gains, but since I’ve been using it, I’ve noticed my shirts are a little tighter across my upper back and chest. 5-3-1 is all about small gains over a long period of time.
i’ve added some size due to the increased volume with BBB. I do better with the lower weight, higher volume accessory; the all out set (but leaving 1-2 reps in the tank) gets me enough heavy work to get stronger. for example, today on week 2 deads i did 225x7 for the balls out set, and then did 5x10 at 145lbs. torch me if i’m doing it wrong, but its working for me.
thanks for the information guys, I really appreciate the help.
[quote]mjnewland wrote:
[quote]jt1 wrote:
Do Dips have any place in the BBB template? What day do you think is best to stick them in? [/quote]
Yes. Read The Book.[/quote]
I have bought and read the book. However, i have read elsewhere that adding dips after BBB Bench on Bench day is perhaps too much. Also, Wendler, in his example BBB Template, uses dumbbell rows as assistance after BBB Bench, and no dips on any of the days. However, my bench is lagging and would think that dips would be a good assistance to do after BBB Bench, no?
My current Setup looks like this:
Bench, BBB Bench, Dips
Squat, BBB Squat, Step ups
Military, BBB Military, Chins
Deadlift, BBB Deadlift, Hanging Leg raises
What you think, are dips necessary after BBB Bench?
[quote]jt1 wrote:
[quote]mjnewland wrote:
[quote]jt1 wrote:
Do Dips have any place in the BBB template? What day do you think is best to stick them in? [/quote]
Yes. Read The Book.[/quote]
I have bought and read the book. However, i have read elsewhere that adding dips after BBB Bench on Bench day is perhaps too much. Also, Wendler, in his example BBB Template, uses dumbbell rows as assistance after BBB Bench, and no dips on any of the days. However, my bench is lagging and would think that dips would be a good assistance to do after BBB Bench, no?
My current Setup looks like this:
Bench, BBB Bench, Dips
Squat, BBB Squat, Step ups
Military, BBB Military, Chins
Deadlift, BBB Deadlift, Hanging Leg raises
What you think, are dips necessary after BBB Bench?[/quote]
I think if you want to use Dips, do them in place of BBB Mil or BBB Bench - Jim has mentioned this on the Elitefts Q&A before. I’d also add Rows in on Bench day.
Hope that helps.
[quote]jt1 wrote:
[quote]mjnewland wrote:
[quote]jt1 wrote:
Do Dips have any place in the BBB template? What day do you think is best to stick them in? [/quote]
Yes. Read The Book.[/quote]
I have bought and read the book. However, i have read elsewhere that adding dips after BBB Bench on Bench day is perhaps too much. Also, Wendler, in his example BBB Template, uses dumbbell rows as assistance after BBB Bench, and no dips on any of the days. However, my bench is lagging and would think that dips would be a good assistance to do after BBB Bench, no?
My current Setup looks like this:
Bench, BBB Bench, Dips
Squat, BBB Squat, Step ups
Military, BBB Military, Chins
Deadlift, BBB Deadlift, Hanging Leg raises
What you think, are dips necessary after BBB Bench?[/quote]
If I were dead set on using BBB and using dips, I’d do the dips BBB style instead of BBB military. Don’t neglect the DB rows in order to add dips.
Another option… do 1 set of 10-20 dips every workout, after whatever template you are running. Add up total weekly reps, do more reps next week. Low threat. The volume should be no problem, and will build slowly.
One more time… do your Kroc Rows!
LA
[quote]jt1 wrote:
[quote]mjnewland wrote:
[quote]jt1 wrote:
Do Dips have any place in the BBB template? What day do you think is best to stick them in? [/quote]
Yes. Read The Book.[/quote]
I have bought and read the book. However, i have read elsewhere that adding dips after BBB Bench on Bench day is perhaps too much. Also, Wendler, in his example BBB Template, uses dumbbell rows as assistance after BBB Bench, and no dips on any of the days. However, my bench is lagging and would think that dips would be a good assistance to do after BBB Bench, no?
My current Setup looks like this:
Bench, BBB Bench, Dips
Squat, BBB Squat, Step ups
Military, BBB Military, Chins
Deadlift, BBB Deadlift, Hanging Leg raises
What you think, are dips necessary after BBB Bench?[/quote]
Right now you have 5 pressing exercises and only one pulling exercise. That simply isn’t a good balanced ratio.
If you want to do dips, cut some other pressing movement and continue to do rows.
I’ve seen some nice size gains from implementing BBB two cycles ago. I usually will do my main lift of the day, then do the other accessory lift, then go back to the main exercise for my BBB template to finish up. I think this is better because 1. you’re not hogging the rack for 40 minutes straight 2. you give yourself a break 3. you preexhaust the antagonist muscles, so that you can really blast your primary muscles.
I did triumverate for the first 4 cycles and BBB for the last 2, and I think BBB is leaps and bounds better.
As for the BBB and “reinforcing technique”, I would probably disagree (for powerlifting anyway). The lower rep main exercise makes you stronger by building muscle and neurological technique that is more like what you are going to do in a PL meet. The higher reps for hypertrophy have (at least for me) a bit different movement as I am trying to maximize hypertrophy and not strength. The setup is the same, but a lot of the movement is different (say for instance the pausing on the chest for benches, the lack of spring out of the hole on squats, etc.). Not saying that this has to be the case, but for me and my goals, that seems to be what I’ve found works best. So not really a negative, just don’t have the wrong idea going into it.