Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 3

Training Powerlifting
421

About Push Press;

Been doing them for a while,
You will move more weight for sure and after a few session, like any other exercices your form will be better and leg drive will be similar on each reps…so dont worry to much about it…Kind of similar to back squat when people place more weight and suddendly not going deep enough…

Suggestion: After you final work set on push press…Reduce the weight by about 25% and do one set of regular military press and keep track of your record on that lift also!

422

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Suggestion: After you final work set on push press…Reduce the weight by about 25% and do one set of regular military press and keep track of your record on that lift also![/quote]

This is good advice. If your shoulders/upper back can tolerate it, you might even want to try the push press as your main lift and do the strict press as the assistance in the Boring But Big 5x10.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been using the push press as my main lift for a while now and I think the gains have come better as compared to when I strict pressed. I think this has to do with my leg drive gaining well with more repetition work.

423

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

Disadvantage - difficult to gauge the amount of leg drive

[/quote]

You could control the depth (but not the force) of the leg drive by doing them in a rack with the pins set high.

424

[quote]BrockStone wrote:
I have been doing standing barbell shoulder press for my ‘military’ move.

Thoughts on switching this up to push press? Advantages? Disadvantages?

In Jim’s manual to the question ‘can i use the push press or jerk in place of the military?’ the answer is simply “Yes”.

I think standing press irks my upper back and I never had push press give me those problems.

Just thoughts

[/quote]

I have a shoulder injury, which prevents me from doing heavy benching… but allows me to pushpress without pain. MP hurts a bit more though… Friday I tried the tip of not letting the bar touch my chest… works very well:) i keep the bar at chin level, and use the thumbless grip Jim suggests… works real good.

425

For my current and fourth cycle I’m going to try:

MP 5/3/1
MP 3x10@ 50-60%
Lateral raises
50 chins, 30 dips

DL 5/3/1
BB complex (2 times with 3 min rest, working up to 3 times/2 minute rest):
row
clean
front squat
military press
back squat
good morning x8

+chins, working up from 10 to 30
+dips, working up from 10 to 30

BP 5/3/1
DB BP 5x10
DB row 5x10
chins 10->30
30 dips

SQ 5/3/1
BB complex (as before)
chins 10->30
dips 10->30

I’ve never done complexes before, but I’ll eat enough to grow and we’ll see in a few cycles what happens. At worst I might end up being leaner and in better shape.

426

[quote]ssplit wrote:
For my current and fourth cycle I’m going to try:

MP 5/3/1
MP 3x10@ 50-60%
Lateral raises
50 chins, 30 dips

DL 5/3/1
BB complex (2 times with 3 min rest, working up to 3 times/2 minute rest):
row
clean
front squat
military press
back squat
good morning x8

+chins, working up from 10 to 30
+dips, working up from 10 to 30

BP 5/3/1
DB BP 5x10
DB row 5x10
chins 10->30
30 dips

SQ 5/3/1
BB complex (as before)
chins 10->30
dips 10->30

I’ve never done complexes before, but I’ll eat enough to grow and we’ll see in a few cycles what happens. At worst I might end up being leaner and in better shape.[/quote]

That’s a lot of volume on your deadlift day … and bp day. I would take out everything except GMs. Do the bb complexes after GMs. I’m not saying ‘you’ can’t do it … but no way I would be able to give full attention to every single exercise you have listed.

I would also add cleans before squat if you’re set on adding them in.

427

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

[quote]ssplit wrote:
For my current and fourth cycle I’m going to try:

MP 5/3/1
MP 3x10@ 50-60%
Lateral raises
50 chins, 30 dips

DL 5/3/1
BB complex (2 times with 3 min rest, working up to 3 times/2 minute rest):
row
clean
front squat
military press
back squat
good morning x8

+chins, working up from 10 to 30
+dips, working up from 10 to 30

BP 5/3/1
DB BP 5x10
DB row 5x10
chins 10->30
30 dips

SQ 5/3/1
BB complex (as before)
chins 10->30
dips 10->30

I’ve never done complexes before, but I’ll eat enough to grow and we’ll see in a few cycles what happens. At worst I might end up being leaner and in better shape.[/quote]

That’s a lot of volume on your deadlift day … and bp day. I would take out everything except GMs. Do the bb complexes after GMs. I’m not saying ‘you’ can’t do it … but no way I would be able to give full attention to every single exercise you have listed.

I would also add cleans before squat if you’re set on adding them in.[/quote]

If you want to do complexes, do your assistance work as a complex and combine that into a circuit with a 5 minute work “set” of Prowler, sprints, treadmill or bike shit. This has been a staple in my arsenal for years for conditioning. Despite what many believe, training with weights in a circuit fashion is not new (or combining them with some kind of conditioning work) is not a new idea. Feminizing them is.

428

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

[quote]ssplit wrote:
DL 5/3/1
BB complex (2 times with 3 min rest, working up to 3 times/2 minute rest):
row
clean
front squat
military press
back squat
good morning x8

+chins, working up from 10 to 30
+dips, working up from 10 to 30

I’ve never done complexes before, but I’ll eat enough to grow and we’ll see in a few cycles what happens. At worst I might end up being leaner and in better shape.[/quote]

That’s a lot of volume on your deadlift day … and bp day. I would take out everything except GMs. Do the bb complexes after GMs. I’m not saying ‘you’ can’t do it … but no way I would be able to give full attention to every single exercise you have listed.

I would also add cleans before squat if you’re set on adding them in.[/quote]

The complex being everything listed from row to GM. Sorry, I guess I wasn’t as clear as I could’ve been. Basically I don’t do any lower body assistance work, only the complex.

I’m not too worried about the BP day, since it’s the same as Boring but Big assistance work with added bodyweight chins and dips, which are not that taxing.

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:

If you want to do complexes, do your assistance work as a complex and combine that into a circuit with a 5 minute work “set” of Prowler, sprints, treadmill or bike shit. This has been a staple in my arsenal for years for conditioning. Despite what many believe, training with weights in a circuit fashion is not new (or combining them with some kind of conditioning work) is not a new idea. Feminizing them is.
[/quote]

Thanks for the suggestion Jim. If I go this route, how much should I lower my assistance weights? Just enough to be able to complete it in circuit fashion?

429

[quote]

Thanks for the suggestion Jim. If I go this route, how much should I lower my assistance weights? Just enough to be able to complete it in circuit fashion?[/quote]

Yes, start too light/easy and work up to what you want to achieve as far as sets/reps and times through the circuit.

Once you do this, start increasing the weight SLOWLY.

430

A video i just saw on youtube,
I know some peoples might bash pro wrestling but i think this video is almost a promo for Wendler 5/3/1
Check it!

431

Does anyone have an opinion on using the 5/3/1 progression percentages and rep on assistance exercises as well?

I’m thinking of using the progression with CGB on bench days and rack pulls on squat day. Do you think this will be to much? I guess I can try and see as bench day is tomorrow.

432

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on using the 5/3/1 progression percentages and rep on assistance exercises as well?

I’m thinking of using the progression with CGB on bench days and rack pulls on squat day. Do you think this will be to much? I guess I can try and see as bench day is tomorrow.[/quote]

Probably better to just follow the program.

433

Jim or anybody.

I read Jim’s “Upper Back for the Bench” article http://www.elitefts.com/documents/upper_back_for_the_bench.htm again and am wondering if the pullup/chinup part is still a good option to improve pullups/chinups on 5/3/1? It’s lower volume than what’s recommended in the book but the intensity seems to be stepped up a little bit.

434

Quick update: pulled 200kg conventional this morning after only doing Olympic deads (lower hips, constant back angle etc) for the last 7 months and not pulling any more than 162.5 in training. That was after 7 cycles, first one based off a max Oly dead of 152/2.

435

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on using the 5/3/1 progression percentages and rep on assistance exercises as well?

I’m thinking of using the progression with CGB on bench days and rack pulls on squat day. Do you think this will be to much? I guess I can try and see as bench day is tomorrow.[/quote]

I ramp up the weight on all of my assistance. I do not use specific percentages, but do aim for 6-10 reps on the last set. The only difference between the two methods is that you are using specific numbers.

I think this is fine and is not overly taxing. I’m learning that if it’s not in the ‘book’, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong. If it’s working then do it.

436

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

[quote]Therizza wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on using the 5/3/1 progression percentages and rep on assistance exercises as well?

I’m thinking of using the progression with CGB on bench days and rack pulls on squat day. Do you think this will be to much? I guess I can try and see as bench day is tomorrow.[/quote]

I ramp up the weight on all of my assistance. I do not use specific percentages, but do aim for 6-10 reps on the last set. The only difference between the two methods is that you are using specific numbers.

I think this is fine and is not overly taxing. I’m learning that if it’s not in the ‘book’, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong. If it’s working then do it.[/quote]

I’m doing BBB and using 50% of my training max for all 5 sets. Each cycle, that goes up a small bit as the training max gets raised. Any other assistance lifts I use straight weight for 3-5 sets. I just picked a weight that wasn’t too hard and figured it would catch up with me over time by doing this: every time I start a new cycle, I add 2.5-5# to the assistance lifts (BB curls, grip, triceps, nothing compound really as that is covered in the BBB) and maintain the weight for that macrocycle. Working well so far. I try to add a pull up each week too. Just completed 5 sets of 6 on them. Next week, I’ll do a set of 7 and then 4x6. The next week, I’ll try to do 2x7, then 3x6, the week after that, 3x7, then 2x6, and so on and so forth. I add 10# to the prowler every 4 weeks and build up the trips again. Start them at 4 trips and add 2 each week until I reach 10. Add weight and start back over at 4.

437

[quote]randomhero97 wrote:
Jim or anybody.

I read Jim’s “Upper Back for the Bench” article http://www.elitefts.com/documents/upper_back_for_the_bench.htm again and am wondering if the pullup/chinup part is still a good option to improve pullups/chinups on 5/3/1? It’s lower volume than what’s recommended in the book but the intensity seems to be stepped up a little bit.[/quote]

No reason you can’t do this - give it a shot.

438

Jim;

Could you give a example of a 5 minutes sets for conditionning ?
Just curious of what you talk about in one the of previous post!

439

[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Jim;

Could you give a example of a 5 minutes sets for conditionning ?
Just curious of what you talk about in one the of previous post![/quote]

We always used a VERY hard stationary bike ride when we first started doing this but has progressed into doing X amount of trips on the Prowler (usually 4 -6…distance is usually 40 yards, weight is ENTIRELY UP TO YOU), weight vest on treadmill, treadmill sprints, pulling/pulling sled with/without weight vest, etc.

The “5 Minutes” is kind of a guideline but we usually use a set of conditioning work that falls into that time frame (within reason). For some people, a simple walk will suiffice.

Plus, you have to kind of stick to conditioning work that is easy to get to while you train - so that is somewhat limiting for many people.

440

Jim,

Got a problem, I’m thinking it is centered around my squat. My squat has been sucking worse than usual lately, just really really sucking. It also seems like my leg drive on deads sucks too. So I’m thinking that if I fix the squat, ill improve my leg drive on the deadlift at the same time. I intend to re-set both my squat and deadlift training maxes.

Do you have suggestions for assistance work specific to leg drive in the deadlift? I pull conventional. I don’t know what’s going on, everything was going well for a while, somehow got off course, just need to get moving back in the right direction.

If you need more/other info, let me know.

Thanks