[quote]Shane250 wrote:
hey lads, im on my third cycle, just finished week one, possitive thinkin and all that but i think i might need to deload on the mil press, how would yee go about it?? was thinkin id just split the difference betwen the 1rm for cycle 2 and 1rm for cycle 3? im on the standard 531 with two assistace lifts [/quote]
Why the need to deload? Feeling overworked? Just curious what the criteria are for wanting to deload in case I ever feel the need.
[quote]Shane250 wrote:
hey lads, im on my third cycle, just finished week one, possitive thinkin and all that but i think i might need to deload on the mil press, how would yee go about it?? was thinkin id just split the difference betwen the 1rm for cycle 2 and 1rm for cycle 3? im on the standard 531 with two assistace lifts [/quote]
I am not sure I understand. You are on cycle 3, week 1. Didn’t you just come off a deload for all lifts? If you mean that you are not sure that you can make your weights on the press, then just reset your press training max to 90% of your last estimated 1RM and away you go. Please clarify if his is not what you mean.
on the first 2 cycles i always went above the reps on the last set, on the 3x5,3x3, and 531 days and i felt under pressure on the last set of 3x5 and dont know how im gona handle the higher weight on the 3x3 and 531 on this cycle and i really hate stalling
[quote]Shane250 wrote:
on the first 2 cycles i always went above the reps on the last set, on the 3x5,3x3, and 531 days and i felt under pressure on the last set of 3x5 and dont know how im gona handle the higher weight on the 3x3 and 531 on this cycle and i really hate stalling[/quote]
If you’re about to stall on only your 3rd cycle, you probably started with weights that are too heavy.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Shane250 wrote:
hey lads, im on my third cycle, just finished week one, possitive thinkin and all that but i think i might need to deload on the mil press, how would yee go about it?? was thinkin id just split the difference betwen the 1rm for cycle 2 and 1rm for cycle 3? im on the standard 531 with two assistace lifts
I am not sure I understand. You are on cycle 3, week 1. Didn’t you just come off a deload for all lifts? If you mean that you are not sure that you can make your weights on the press, then just reset your press training max to 90% of your last estimated 1RM and away you go. Please clarify if his is not what you mean. [/quote]
I justfinished week 1 of cycle 3, have the %'s worked out for cycle 3 on the mil press day this week i made all the rep for the prescribed 3x5 but thats all i could do i couldnt do any more reps on the last set even though its down as 5+ on the program and im jut worried that i wont make threps for the nest two weeks(3x3 and 531),
so should i go back to my 90%1rm for cycle2 or split the differnce between 1rm cycle2 and 1rm cycle3 and work off 90% of that??
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Shane250 wrote:
on the first 2 cycles i always went above the reps on the last set, on the 3x5,3x3, and 531 days and i felt under pressure on the last set of 3x5 and dont know how im gona handle the higher weight on the 3x3 and 531 on this cycle and i really hate stalling
If you’re about to stall on only your 3rd cycle, you probably started with weights that are too heavy.[/quote]
that may be it, i was doing rippitoes Starting strength before this and simply used the last weight for a set of 5 and a 1rm calculator to work out the weights my est 1rm is only 70kg!!!
I have been doing standing barbell shoulder press for my ‘military’ move.
Thoughts on switching this up to push press? Advantages? Disadvantages?
In Jim’s manual to the question ‘can i use the push press or jerk in place of the military?’ the answer is simply “Yes”.
I think standing press irks my upper back and I never had push press give me those problems.
Just thoughts
[quote]Shane250 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Shane250 wrote:
on the first 2 cycles i always went above the reps on the last set, on the 3x5,3x3, and 531 days and i felt under pressure on the last set of 3x5 and dont know how im gona handle the higher weight on the 3x3 and 531 on this cycle and i really hate stalling
If you’re about to stall on only your 3rd cycle, you probably started with weights that are too heavy.
that may be it, i was doing rippitoes Starting strength before this and simply used the last weight for a set of 5 and a 1rm calculator to work out the weights my est 1rm is only 70kg!!![/quote]
It really sounds like you started with your numbers too high. Take 10% off your 1rm for your starting point. You may want to figure out a real 1rm right now to do that. The estimated works well for some exercises and people and not for others. For me my 1rm calculated for deadlift is pretty close but for squats it’s massively wrong. I think I have a lot of slow twitch fiber in my legs so I can go for many reps at a relatively high % of my 1rm, more than the formula would say I can.
My first and second cycle I’ve been hitting 8-20 reps on my third sets so far depending on exercise.
[quote]Shane250 wrote:
jjackkrash wrote:
Shane250 wrote:
hey lads, im on my third cycle, just finished week one, possitive thinkin and all that but i think i might need to deload on the mil press, how would yee go about it?? was thinkin id just split the difference betwen the 1rm for cycle 2 and 1rm for cycle 3? im on the standard 531 with two assistace lifts
I am not sure I understand. You are on cycle 3, week 1. Didn’t you just come off a deload for all lifts? If you mean that you are not sure that you can make your weights on the press, then just reset your press training max to 90% of your last estimated 1RM and away you go. Please clarify if his is not what you mean.
I justfinished week 1 of cycle 3, have the %'s worked out for cycle 3 on the mil press day this week i made all the rep for the prescribed 3x5 but thats all i could do i couldnt do any more reps on the last set even though its down as 5+ on the program and im jut worried that i wont make threps for the nest two weeks(3x3 and 531),
so should i go back to my 90%1rm for cycle2 or split the differnce between 1rm cycle2 and 1rm cycle3 and work off 90% of that??[/quote]
You started too heavy. I am on my 6th cycle and haven’t made less than 10 reps on my 5 day on any lift, including press. I am usually in the 12 to 15 range on my 5 day. If you run the numbers right to start, you shouldn’t need to reset for at least 6-8 cycles. If you take 90% of your 1 rep max, and 85% of that on your 5 day for your money set, shouldn’t have any trouble making 10 reps. If you haven’t done so, reading the book is a good place to start. Hope this helps.
could it be that im not strong enough to be doing this program in the first place then because i would consider the weights im using quite low, last set of 5 in the overhead at 85% was 55kg and only managed 5 reps
[quote]Shane250 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Shane250 wrote:
on the first 2 cycles i always went above the reps on the last set, on the 3x5,3x3, and 531 days and i felt under pressure on the last set of 3x5 and dont know how im gona handle the higher weight on the 3x3 and 531 on this cycle and i really hate stalling
If you’re about to stall on only your 3rd cycle, you probably started with weights that are too heavy.
that may be it, i was doing rippitoes Starting strength before this and simply used the last weight for a set of 5 and a 1rm calculator to work out the weights my est 1rm is only 70kg!!![/quote]
There are a few different calculators for a 1rm from a 5rm, and (as others have noted) they work better or worse depending upon the particular person and lift. The important thing here is that you now know that for you and for the Press, it did not produce an optimal number for the 5/3/1 program because you should absolutely not be barely making the prescribed reps in the third cycle. This may be because of a lot of different reasons, including that you may not have the necessary conditioning for all of the work sets (i.e. the first two may be wiping you out), technique issues, or just that the Press is hard to increase and a 5 lbs increase each cycle amounts to a relatively high percentage of the weight you have been using.
Assuming that your other lifts are fine and that you have only been adding the proper amount of weight each cycle (i.e. 5 lbs) I would recommend (though I am no expert, so listen to others if they say anything different) the following. Set your training max for the Press at 60kg (85% of previously estimated 1rm) for the rest of cycle 3. This means that your 3 day will be working with 54kg. If you cannot get many reps with that, start evaluating what is going on with your lift (are you not recovering sufficiently? Did you have bad form and push-press when you preciously got the 5rm?) and/or just repeat the same weights for the press for cycle 4 as well. Hopefully just dropping your training max down to 60 kg will work though.
Also, you may want to use smaller increases in the training max, such as using micro plates to increase the training max by only 2.5 lbs a cycle. If you do not have such plates available, some people use light pieces of chain (approx 1-2 lbs).
EDIT: I had not seen that your current 5 day used 55kg. In that case, I would use an even lower training max than I suggested. I just ran a 5rm through a calculator and got a 62kg 1rm. Thus use 85% of that as the training max for this cycle, which is 52kg. For the 3 day, that means 47kg.
the other 3 lifts are fine, ill do that for the overhead press and see how it goes, i did note a varied result from using four different 1rm calculators so i took the average of the four results i got. Ill reset the weights on the overhead for cycle 3 and go from there.
[quote]BrockStone wrote:
I have been doing standing barbell shoulder press for my ‘military’ move.
Thoughts on switching this up to push press? Advantages? Disadvantages?
In Jim’s manual to the question ‘can i use the push press or jerk in place of the military?’ the answer is simply “Yes”.
I think standing press irks my upper back and I never had push press give me those problems.
Just thoughts
[/quote]
Advantage - you can move more weight or get more reps
Disadvantage - difficult to gauge the amount of leg drive
What do mean by “irks my upper back”? Pain? What is your ROM? I was having shoulder ‘problems’ doing a full ROM (touching chest), switched to stopping at my chin with no shoulder soreness.
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
BrockStone wrote:
I have been doing standing barbell shoulder press for my ‘military’ move.
Thoughts on switching this up to push press? Advantages? Disadvantages?
In Jim’s manual to the question ‘can i use the push press or jerk in place of the military?’ the answer is simply “Yes”.
I think standing press irks my upper back and I never had push press give me those problems.
Just thoughts
Advantage - you can move more weight or get more reps
Disadvantage - difficult to gauge the amount of leg drive
What do mean by “irks my upper back”? Pain? What is your ROM? I was having shoulder ‘problems’ doing a full ROM (touching chest), switched to stopping at my chin with no shoulder soreness.[/quote]
About 4 inches below the top of my trap, right by my spine, deep in…pain. I remember having it with heavy weight on lat pulldowns back when I used to do them as well. Something about military and standing shoulder press hurt it. I dont think push press aggravates it as much though.
Something about my physiology makes it so that if I stress that area heavily enough it hurts intensely (muscle or ligament from the way it hurts when I move). Physio has looked at it, still working on it.
I agree push press is harder to gauge your level of leg help, but…if it keeps my back from hurting and I am seeing shoulder strength progressing that should not matter TOO much.
Sorry I am not familiar with the term ROM? range of movement would be the guess? If so, I go all the way down to rack position typically. I think it has something to do with that whole area tightening when I go heavy (for me around 130# static standing press).
[quote]thephantom wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
In case anyone cares, this is what I’m doing for cycle 4…
Day 1
5/3/1 Military press
Flat DB bench press → 20-30 reps Rest-paused
Low cable-row (wide neutral grip) → 10-12 rep ramp
EZ bar PJRs → 12-15 rep ramp
Kneeling cable ext. rotation → 3x12-15
Day 2
5/3/1 Deadlifts
BB curls → 20-30 RP
DB Bulgarian split squat → 8 rep ramp
Kneeling Hip Extensions → 8-12 rep ramp
BB Hip thrusts → 5 rep ramp
Pallof press → 3x10-12
Day 3
5/3/1 Bench press
Incline BB bench → 5 rep ramp
Yates row w/ belt → 6 rep ramp
Overhead rope extensions → Extended set (triple drop set)
Side-lying ext. rotations → 3x12-15
Day 4
Hammer curl → 12-20 rep ramp
5/3/1 Front squat
Back extensions w/ DB (focusing on hammies) → 6 rep ramp
Walking DB lunges → 8-10 rep ramp
BB Hip thrusts → 5 rep ramp
Hanging leg raise → 3x10-15
Out of curiousity, do you feel that the PJR’s have helped your pressing strength much? I ask because I love the movement, but I am wondering if it would be beneficial to include it in the program. [/quote]
I don’t think so… Granted, the first time I did them (last cycle) I was unsure of the movement… the first 2 weeks I used a DB which didn’t feel right, so of course I only did the EZ bar PJRs justice on week 3, and week 4 was deload. But: I am using them mainly to develop the long head of the triceps. My 5/3/1 template is more bodybuilding focused.
[quote]
Out of curiousity, do you feel that the PJR’s have helped your pressing strength much? I ask because I love the movement, but I am wondering if it would be beneficial to include it in the program.
I don’t think so… Granted, the first time I did them (last cycle) I was unsure of the movement… the first 2 weeks I used a DB which didn’t feel right, so of course I only did the EZ bar PJRs justice on week 3, and week 4 was deload. But: I am using them mainly to develop the long head of the triceps. My 5/3/1 template is more bodybuilding focused.[/quote]
Ok, I was just curious. The PJR’s are just about the only thing that develops the long head of my triceps, so I was going to throw them in there just for that reason - I was curious if there were any unexpected benefits haha.
[quote]thephantom wrote:
Out of curiousity, do you feel that the PJR’s have helped your pressing strength much? I ask because I love the movement, but I am wondering if it would be beneficial to include it in the program.
I don’t think so… Granted, the first time I did them (last cycle) I was unsure of the movement… the first 2 weeks I used a DB which didn’t feel right, so of course I only did the EZ bar PJRs justice on week 3, and week 4 was deload. But: I am using them mainly to develop the long head of the triceps. My 5/3/1 template is more bodybuilding focused.
Ok, I was just curious. The PJR’s are just about the only thing that develops the long head of my triceps, so I was going to throw them in there just for that reason - I was curious if there were any unexpected benefits haha. [/quote]
Haha, I’m sure they help strength just a bit, especially in other lifts that use the long head of the triceps. Some good lifts for the long head of the tris: close grip pin presses, 3 board presses, super wide reverse grip bench press on smith (press up and towards feet), In-human smith press (close grip bench press with butt off bench; flare elbows, and press up & towards feet), and deadstop extensions.
[quote]BrockStone wrote:
About 4 inches below the top of my trap, right by my spine, deep in…pain. I remember having it with heavy weight on lat pulldowns back when I used to do them as well. Something about military and standing shoulder press hurt it. I dont think push press aggravates it as much though.
Something about my physiology makes it so that if I stress that area heavily enough it hurts intensely (muscle or ligament from the way it hurts when I move). Physio has looked at it, still working on it.
I agree push press is harder to gauge your level of leg help, but…if it keeps my back from hurting and I am seeing shoulder strength progressing that should not matter TOO much.[/quote]
Cant’ argue with that![quote]
Sorry I am not familiar with the term ROM? range of movement would be the guess? If so, I go all the way down to rack position typically. I think it has something to do with that whole area tightening when I go heavy (for me around 130# static standing press).
[/quote]
range of motion
I’m not a physiologist either, but Cephalic Carnage has HIGHLY recommended on more than one occasion to NOT touch the bar to your chest. Stop around ear or chin level. Anything lower does not add shoulder stimulation but may be the cause of shoulder problems.
I know your pain is much lower, but it could still be related as your legs are helping power out of that initial portion (from chest to face) therefore is less painful or non-existent. Make sense?
I have been doing the 531 program for a couple months and I am having some good progress. I have a problem with squating though, at the bottom of my squat my coccyx shifts under me. I have short legs and a long torso. Is this the problem or are my hips just not flexible enough?
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I’m not a physiologist either, but Cephalic Carnage has HIGHLY recommended on more than one occasion to NOT touch the bar to your chest. Stop around ear or chin level. Anything lower does not add shoulder stimulation but may be the cause of shoulder problems.
I know your pain is much lower, but it could still be related as your legs are helping power out of that initial portion (from chest to face) therefore is less painful or non-existent. Make sense?[/quote]
Absolutely. The reason for going to push press was to reduce the stress on that lower area.
I will experiment with that on deload week. Thanks!