Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 3

Training Powerlifting
281

[quote]revchad wrote:
dolarhyde wrote:
Is it possible to do BBB and other accessory exercises with the 2 day template? This is how I put it together, but I’m not sure if it is correct.

I want to still be able to do BBB, but I also want to keep doing 100 pullups a week and keep in the other two accessory exercises I would normally do on my leg days. I can’t really train 4 days a week anymore due to school and work taking up a lot more time now than usual.

Day 1
Bench 531
Squat 531
BBB Bench w/ 50 pullups
BBB Squat w/ Leg curl

Day 2
Deadlift 531
Overhead Press 531
BBB Deadlift w/ ab wheel
BBB OHP w/ 50 pullups

Personally, that looks like hell to do. I do not want to do anything after 531 and BBB deadlifting, but if I become similarly strapped for time I may well do the same routine. It is in line with what Jim recommends on page 62 on the manual.

5x10 on the main lift acts as an assistance lift, so you have two assistance lifts for each main lift. It is probably worth a try, and if you do you should should definitely report back on it. Good luck.[/quote]

Would I be better off doing pullups first thing in the morning on off days? Has anyone else here done a 2 day cycle like this?

282

Has anyone ever accidentally loaded a barbell with uneven weights on each side? I did on my last set of 1+ week today, I kind of noticed but didn’t stop to check and finished the set. The last plate on one side was a 2.5 instead of 5 like it was supposed to be. I moved onto my next lift and it kept bothering me so I went back and redid it with the correct weight, luckily got the same # of reps.

283

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Has anyone ever accidentally loaded a barbell with uneven weights on each side? I did on my last set of 1+ week today, I kind of noticed but didn’t stop to check and finished the set. The last plate on one side was a 2.5 instead of 5 like it was supposed to be. I moved onto my next lift and it kept bothering me so I went back and redid it with the correct weight, luckily got the same # of reps.[/quote]

I’m impressed that you can go back and do the SAME weight and reps. After the last set, I am always cooked.

So what exercise, weight, and reps?

284

so all deload is, is 40%, 50%, 60%? ive been doing exactly that for warmups every lift day before i hop into my worksets. this is really all i do?
can i still go all out on my accessory lifts? like my 50 pull ups? and go hard on front squats on squat day(my secondary movement)?

285

[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
so all deload is, is 40%, 50%, 60%? ive been doing exactly that for warmups every lift day before i hop into my worksets. this is really all i do?
can i still go all out on my accessory lifts? like my 50 pull ups? and go hard on front squats on squat day(my secondary movement)?[/quote]

Regarding the percentages: yes.

Regarding accessory lifts:
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=103936&tid=
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=104816&tid=
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=105187&tid=

286

[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
so all deload is, is 40%, 50%, 60%? ive been doing exactly that for warmups every lift day before i hop into my worksets. this is really all i do?
can i still go all out on my accessory lifts? like my 50 pull ups? and go hard on front squats on squat day(my secondary movement)?[/quote]

My workouts typically take 1:15 to 1:30 to complete and I am dripping in sweat when I am done. On a deload day, I am out in :15 and I don’t come close to breaking a sweat. I do the main lifts, 40, 50, 60, then some foam rolling and mobility stuff and maybe some abs and go home.

287

[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
so all deload is, is 40%, 50%, 60%? ive been doing exactly that for warmups every lift day before i hop into my worksets. this is really all i do?
can i still go all out on my accessory lifts? like my 50 pull ups? and go hard on front squats on squat day(my secondary movement)?[/quote]

Have you read the book?

288

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
sufiandy wrote:
Has anyone ever accidentally loaded a barbell with uneven weights on each side? I did on my last set of 1+ week today, I kind of noticed but didn’t stop to check and finished the set. The last plate on one side was a 2.5 instead of 5 like it was supposed to be. I moved onto my next lift and it kept bothering me so I went back and redid it with the correct weight, luckily got the same # of reps.

I’m impressed that you can go back and do the SAME weight and reps. After the last set, I am always cooked.

So what exercise, weight, and reps?[/quote]

Overhead press at 125 for 5 reps. Last month was 6 reps though, I maybe could have done 6 but 5 felt about right so I stopped there. If I managed to get 6 I definitely would not have got that again on my 2nd attempt.

289

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
My workouts typically take 1:15 to 1:30 to complete and I am dripping in sweat when I am done. On a deload day, I am out in :15 and I don’t come close to breaking a sweat. I do the main lifts, 40, 50, 60, then some foam rolling and mobility stuff and maybe some abs and go home. [/quote]

Why are you doing foam rolling and mobility work after main lifts? Usually one does this first. At least mobility work first since it can be part of your warm-up. I have heard people doing foam rolling after to help ease your muscles after the work you have done.

290

Ha ha I did something similar on my DL 1+ day; I loaded up 122.5kg (270lb) and did 15 reps, thought it was too easy and realised I should have done 122.5 x 3 followed by 137.5kg (303lb) x 1+. After a decent 4-5min rest I got 137.5 x 11.

291

[quote]Old Dax wrote:
To anyone doing the two day template, doing each lift once per week (not doing the 4 over two weeks): Do you do the deload? In the eBook Jim indicates its not a good idea (but I seem to think this is if yuor doing the 4 lifts over two weeks - after all doing it all in two sessions is pretty hard).
Anyway, I’d like to see other peoples views.
I have only done one cycle (with the deload) as I wanted to do it ‘as written’ I’m now considering either doing one deload day or just missing one day completely then jump back in, like this:

Tuesday,
DL 5/3/1
BB Row
M Press 5/3/1
BBB M Press
Abs
Face Pull

Friday,
F Sq 5/3/1
BBB F Sq
Bench 5/3/1
DB floor Press 3x10
DB Tri ext 3x10
Abs
45deg back raise
Face Pull

So Deload would be miss Tuesday then Dl on the Friday. This would give 6 days rest - surely enough for a deload?[/quote]

Anybody?

292

[quote]jsdool wrote:
jjackkrash wrote:
My workouts typically take 1:15 to 1:30 to complete and I am dripping in sweat when I am done. On a deload day, I am out in :15 and I don’t come close to breaking a sweat. I do the main lifts, 40, 50, 60, then some foam rolling and mobility stuff and maybe some abs and go home.

Why are you doing foam rolling and mobility work after main lifts? Usually one does this first. At least mobility work first since it can be part of your warm-up. I have heard people doing foam rolling after to help ease your muscles after the work you have done.

[/quote]

I do mobility work first on regular cycle days, but on deload days I just hit the main lifts and then fart around with some foam rolling and mobility work because I got some time to kill and I don’t do anything else on deload days. I don’t like to foam roll before lifting, I like to do it after or at night even during the regular cycle. Also, I get the wife to walk on my back on most nights–its better than most deep tissue massages.

293

One thing I’m not clear on is how long the cycle is on a two day program and how to progress the %s. I read earlier that if your doing the two day template then the cycle last 6 weeks before you up the weight on training maxes. Could you do the two day template and still have the cycle take 4 weeks? If not then how do you calculate the percentages for the extra weeks?

294

[quote]dolarhyde wrote:
One thing I’m not clear on is how long the cycle is on a two day program and how to progress the %s. I read earlier that if your doing the two day template then the cycle last 6 weeks before you up the weight on training maxes. Could you do the two day template and still have the cycle take 4 weeks? If not then how do you calculate the percentages for the extra weeks?[/quote]

You may need to distinguish between the two different templates for two days a week. One involves one main lift each day, so it takes two weeks to complete a wave, thus six weeks to complete the three waves. You do not deload on this template, but just start your next cycle with increased weights. There are no extra weeks on this because takes you 6 weeks to hit the four main lifts each three times.

With the template using two main lifts per day and two days per week, each wave is one week. You would either just do your three waves and move on the the next cycle (giving you a three week cycle) or you would do a deload week (for a four week cycle). I am not sure whether Jim recommends deloading if you are doing two main lifts per day (thus giving yourself a lot to recover from) but only two days per week (thus a lot of time to recover already built into the program). In any case, if you are doing two main lifts per day, you would not be on a six week cycle, but a three or four week cycle, so there are no extra weeks to worry about.

I hope this helps, and hopefully someone else can comment on whether or not deloading is appropriate.

295

[quote]Old Dax wrote:
To anyone doing the two day template, doing each lift once per week (not doing the 4 over two weeks): Do you do the deload? In the eBook Jim indicates its not a good idea (but I seem to think this is if yuor doing the 4 lifts over two weeks - after all doing it all in two sessions is pretty hard).
Anyway, I’d like to see other peoples views.
I have only done one cycle (with the deload) as I wanted to do it ‘as written’ I’m now considering either doing one deload day or just missing one day completely then jump back in, like this:

Tuesday,
DL 5/3/1
BB Row
M Press 5/3/1
BBB M Press
Abs
Face Pull

Friday,
F Sq 5/3/1
BBB F Sq
Bench 5/3/1
DB floor Press 3x10
DB Tri ext 3x10
Abs
45deg back raise
Face Pull

So Deload would be miss Tuesday then Dl on the Friday. This would give 6 days rest - surely enough for a deload?[/quote]

OD–for what it’s worth:
I have been doing the 2day and have been doing 2 cycles, aka. 5’s week, 3’s week, 5/3/1 week, 5’s week, 3’s week, 5/3/1 week, then taking a deload week if I feel I need it. As far as my set up looks, i split UB and LB:
UB day
Milt-5/3/1
CG Bench-5/3/1
some asst

LB asst day–pretty much all single leg work

off

LB day
DL-5/3/1
Sqt- not using 5/3/1 for this.
another move

UB asst. day- mostly back work

off

etc,—I should probably note I dont care much about my bench, basically use it as asst for my OH, and use the squat as asst. for my DL. Not sure if that helped, but there’s an idea to toss around. I realize this is not how JW planned it, but it works for me.

296

A few comments on the last post of the thread:

-About assistance:
The big but boring is nice and its just a variation of the trimvirate; you select 2 assistance exercices for the day and do 5x10…

-Im on my 15 cycle of 5/3/1 - Dont overthink the program, it work the way its written,

-After looking at my pr sheet, i realized i hit more pr on the 3x3 week and the 5/3/1 week(mean wave 2 and 3)

-I also hit more pr with the 65/75/85%, 70/80/90%, 75/85/95%
There another way of doing the 5/3/1 but i had less success with

-You have to bust your ass to hit pr, its not just a perfect formula and the reps are not free!!

-I do some guns show or calves to my routine but that just me and its not all the time!

-I will be 35years old in about 6 weeks, i almost stop lifting weight about 3 years ago, routine based on pr are great to get you in the gym and lift, i cannot do 3 sets of 10reps anymore with no reason , i did this for to long!

-To conclude, im not one of the strongest lifter(by far when i check other log) on the forum but im working on it, im in the best shape of my life(almost),and when i see people that used to train with me a few years ago they cant believe i still go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week, and now most of them are fat and not in very good shape!!

297

[quote]revchad wrote:
dolarhyde wrote:
One thing I’m not clear on is how long the cycle is on a two day program and how to progress the %s. I read earlier that if your doing the two day template then the cycle last 6 weeks before you up the weight on training maxes. Could you do the two day template and still have the cycle take 4 weeks? If not then how do you calculate the percentages for the extra weeks?

You may need to distinguish between the two different templates for two days a week. One involves one main lift each day, so it takes two weeks to complete a wave, thus six weeks to complete the three waves. You do not deload on this template, but just start your next cycle with increased weights. There are no extra weeks on this because takes you 6 weeks to hit the four main lifts each three times.

With the template using two main lifts per day and two days per week, each wave is one week. You would either just do your three waves and move on the the next cycle (giving you a three week cycle) or you would do a deload week (for a four week cycle). I am not sure whether Jim recommends deloading if you are doing two main lifts per day (thus giving yourself a lot to recover from) but only two days per week (thus a lot of time to recover already built into the program). In any case, if you are doing two main lifts per day, you would not be on a six week cycle, but a three or four week cycle, so there are no extra weeks to worry about.

I hope this helps, and hopefully someone else can comment on whether or not deloading is appropriate.[/quote]

Yes this helps a lot. I am planning on doing the two lifts per day template and forgot about the other variation when I was asking about the cycle length. This is what I plan on doing…

Tuesday
Bench 531
Squat 531
BBB Bench
BBB Squat
50 pullups
Leg curl 5x10

Friday
Deadlift 531
Military Press 531
BBB Deadlift
BBB Military Press
50 pullups
Ab Wheel 5x10

298

Just read “Training 3 Days A Week” and wanted to clarify something about 5/3/1 training. Jim mentions you can do variations of the main lift after each cycle as opposed to deadlifting week in, week out. Eg.
Cycle 1: Deadlift
Cycle 2: Rack-pulls
Cycle 3: Deficit deadlift
Cycle 4: Go back to deadlifts etc.

Just wanted to know anyone’s experience in doing something like this?

299

[quote]namguy wrote:
Just read “Training 3 Days A Week” and wanted to clarify something about 5/3/1 training. Jim mentions you can do variations of the main lift after each cycle as opposed to deadlifting week in, week out. Eg.
Cycle 1: Deadlift
Cycle 2: Rack-pulls
Cycle 3: Deficit deadlift
Cycle 4: Go back to deadlifts etc.

Just wanted to know anyone’s experience in doing something like this?[/quote]

I do not know what Jim says in the 3-day manual, but it the 5/3/1 manual he explicitly says:
"Question: Can I switch movements every other cycle? For example, do a trap bar deadlift for a cycle and then switch to a deadlift, and then back to the trap bar.
“Answer: No. Stick with one exercise and keep pushing this exercise until you stall out or reach your personal goals” (71)

Accessory work can be rotated, but I am fairly confident that he does not say in the 5/3/1 manual anything about changing the main lifts each cycle except not to. Perhaps if you cite where you were looking in the 3-day manual and/or quote it someone can clarify whether this is a change in Jim’s view, an option simply not included in the 5/3/1 manual (e.g. perhaps changing the range of motion but not the basic form would be permissible) or he was talking about something else.

300

[quote]revchad wrote:
namguy wrote:
Just read “Training 3 Days A Week” and wanted to clarify something about 5/3/1 training. Jim mentions you can do variations of the main lift after each cycle as opposed to deadlifting week in, week out. Eg.
Cycle 1: Deadlift
Cycle 2: Rack-pulls
Cycle 3: Deficit deadlift
Cycle 4: Go back to deadlifts etc.

Just wanted to know anyone’s experience in doing something like this?

I do not know what Jim says in the 3-day manual, but it the 5/3/1 manual he explicitly says:
"Question: Can I switch movements every other cycle? For example, do a trap bar deadlift for a cycle and then switch to a deadlift, and then back to the trap bar.
“Answer: No. Stick with one exercise and keep pushing this exercise until you stall out or reach your personal goals” (71)

Accessory work can be rotated, but I am fairly confident that he does not say in the 5/3/1 manual anything about changing the main lifts each cycle except not to. Perhaps if you cite where you were looking in the 3-day manual and/or quote it someone can clarify whether this is a change in Jim’s view, an option simply not included in the 5/3/1 manual (e.g. perhaps changing the range of motion but not the basic form would be permissible) or he was talking about something else.[/quote]

Oh okay, I didn’t know that…

Here’s a quote from 3 Days A Week

"There is little doubt that the military press, bench press, squat and deadlift are the kings of strength and muscle building but you donâ??t have to limit your training to just these lifts. Another template you could follow is to pick 2 variations of these lifts thus giving you 3 total exercises to go through.

So for the first 4 waves you can use the military, bench, deadlift and squat.
For the 2nd and 3rd waves you can choose from these variations."

He then gives variations of deads, squats, bench etc. and gives a detailed 10 week plan (2 cycles) consisting of 1st cycle: dead, squat, bench, military press and then 2nd cycle: rack pulls, incline press, 2-board press, parallel box squat.

I liked the idea of switching it up to keep it interesting and fun.