Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 3

Training Powerlifting
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Thanks Kalle. Yea, I saw one last year nearby and I will assume they will have another around the same time in the year. So I have like 5-6mo of straight training.

In regards to diet, I am following a Shelby Starnes carb cycling like approach. DL and Sq (now my event day) are my high carb days, “medium days” (which are just low carb days with a hi-carb PWO shake) are my MP(now log) and bench(now incline) days. The others are low carb.

It was workign well till I went on vacation. But then I let it slip!

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[quote]HUNTER13 wrote:
What type of “diet” are you guys using while on 531? I know Jim says to drink a gallon of milk aday if looking to get huge. Alot of guys are talking about the Anabolic Diet.

The only prob I have with the AD is that I cant have my milk, and since I have upped it (not quite a gallon, yet) my weight has gone up, recovery is great (might be due to the 531 plan), strength is increasing, and have gotten alil fatter (wife says I now have love handles, I just say hey its my winter bulk). [/quote]

I had a enough sense to copy down the following words of wisdom:

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Very good read and point.

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This is a copy of a post i did in part 2…
Hopefully that can help some people with 1000 questions!!
(this is a review of Jim previous seminar!)

I tought some 5/3/1 junkie and peoples that like Jim work would like to read!!

Made it to the Wendler Seminar in Chicago, and he went over a few things that may be of interest:

For people who want to be strong, with an emphasis on getting bigger -

My notes basically say “5/3/1 + 5x10 + 30 min walking/3 days + increase caloric liquids”

5/3/1 routine for the strength, the 5x10 of whatever big lift you’re doing that day, 30 mins of walking to keep some of the fat off and ensure you’re not completely de-conditioned, and liquid calories are just easier to ingest.

Conditioning:

Hard condition occurs on lower body day (sprints, hills, prowler…)
Light condition on Upper days as not to effect the lower body days
Basic limiting of cals/carbs, nothing crazy here

Sample for someone wanting to get into fantastic athletic shape, while trying to build/maintain strength:

30-40 mins easy conditioning in the morning
5/3/1 lifting at some point during the day, 3-4 days a week
Followed by hard conditioning, 4 days a week
Very strenuous

He went over the importance of having easy conditioning, or (gasp!) steady state cardio, giving the example of an elite college football athlete who had an unusually high resting heart rate. They had him on a treadmill walking for extended periods of time and his heart rate plummeted.
1)Easy conditioning helps people adapt
2)Positively impacts strength by not overtaxing your recovery
3)Work capacity increases because of it

People who want to be conditioned while gaining strength:

Get to a satisfactory level of conditioning (maybe 2 hard conditioning workouts a week), and simply maintain that amount, while building strength around it.
Amount of hills/trips on prowler should not increase but be maintained at a level that keeps you conditioned while allowing you to make strength gains. Some experimentation is necessary of course.

Box Squat vs. Free Squat

-Believes Box Squat is great to teach squat, and is good for people with bad knees
-The carryover or usefulness, however, only really applies to multi-ply lifters
-He concluded by saying that if you’re not a multi-ply lifter and can safely free squat, then pick the free squat 100% of the time

Later, I asked him why so much emphasis on box squatting is prevalent in sports training.
He said because it’s easy to teach, and they need some type of squatting movement. Instead of working out free squat kinks, they might as well save time, and get strong on box squats. Also, they can recover fast usually.

Quick technique points:

Recommends trying the false grip for OH press (not bench). He says that helped him immensely with shoulder/bar tracking problems

Clean: Demonstrated the “ugliest clean ever”, which involves simply getting the bar from the floor to the shoulders any way possible. Not triple extension or hip whip. Just grab it, jump, pull it onto the shoulders.
Made the point that technique is only really significantly important for people training to lift a lot of goddamned weight or an oly-lifter

Squat: Basically what Mehdi/Rippetoe recommends. Except he says that one should drive the elbows under the bar and push up into it. Basically gets the same job as elbows up: it keeps the chest up, but then again, it works for him, so…

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edit: that question is sort of unspecific. Let’s say I do 3 cycles, and at the end of the 3rd i test my maxes. Can i base my percentages off these new maxes or do i have to keep adding 5-10 pounds to my old ones?

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Add 5/10 pounds.

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[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
HUNTER13 wrote:
What type of “diet” are you guys using while on 531? I know Jim says to drink a gallon of milk aday if looking to get huge. Alot of guys are talking about the Anabolic Diet.

The only prob I have with the AD is that I cant have my milk, and since I have upped it (not quite a gallon, yet) my weight has gone up, recovery is great (might be due to the 531 plan), strength is increasing, and have gotten alil fatter (wife says I now have love handles, I just say hey its my winter bulk).

I had a enough sense to copy down the following words of wisdom:

Jim Wendler wrote:
A very good friend of mine is making great progress on the program and losing weight/gaining strength. His attitude is great - he’s not looking to make changes tomorrow but a lifestyle change forever. I hate to sound like a fitness 'tard but that is what most people need. He’s adding in the conditioning slowly and something else he’s doing…

He does 50 jumps with the jump rope between all of his sets.

This has made a huge difference, actually.

Also, make performance goals for yourself; Squat X, Bench Y, DL Z, Military XY.
Run X in Y minutes. Or do X amount of hills per week. Doesn’t matter, just make a list of stuff you need to get done and do it. Apply this to your life, too.

One thing I’ve done is do 3 hard conditioning workouts/week. That’s it. I don’t care when or with what. Just get the shit done. When you start doing stuff like this, stuff starts falling into place.

Some of these goals can’t be done at the same time, but while striving for one, you can make slow progress on the others. For example, if you want to get in better shape, up the hills/Prowler or whatever you choose and make slow climbs with the weights and make smart decisions with your weight training.

When the weights turn to your focus, condition just hard enough to maintain your levels but not enough to take away performance in the weight room. I’m getting longwinded now and I apologize.

It’s Friday and I want to go home and play music, drink whiskey and blow out my ear drums. Here is an email I sent yesterday when a young kid asked me if I cared what I looked like (if looking good was a huge priority for me):

"Do I care what I look like? I guess. It’s not a priority, though. Think about it this way:

If I do the following:

Squat 700 raw
Bench 450 raw
Deadlift 740 raw

(all in a meet)

And run hills for 30 minutes 3 times a week.
Eat 2-300 grams/protein a day and don’t eat much junk…

What do you think I’m going to look like?

So I just concentrate on performance and being the baddest motherfucker I can be. Shit starts falling into place when that happens. Looking good is a byproduct of kicking ass. If you want some good diet advice, try this. It always fucking works:

Eat 4 meals a day.

  • Each meal starts with a 50g (or so) protein drink in water.
  • After that, each as much protein as your stomach can handle (I usually eat only eggs, chicken or steak) - because of the protein drink, it’s not much maybe 2-3 eggs, small serving of chicken or beef.
  • Eat a piece of fruit that you like (or vegetable…whatever)

If you want some carbs after that, eat them. But you’ll be so full you won’t be able to eat that many. I’ve noticed that as long as you get enough protein, the carbs will take care of themselves. Even when going out to eat, before you go, slam a protein drink.

You’ll eat less “crap” and you’ll be much better off. I’m not a huge fan of protein drinks (or any supplements, really) but this diet works for getting bigger and stronger. And not getting too fat.

To make it even simpler, before you eat ANY MEAL, drink a 50g protein drink. I did this during college and lost 25lbs (I was too heavy as a fullback) and never got weaker and was leaner.

The bottom line is this: no one gives a fuck what you look like, except you. And that just means you are a narcissist bastard. Girls don’t fucking care, no matter what they say. They want you to be smart, funny, strong and confident.

Having money helps a ton, too. Does this mean you can be a fat slob? NO. But work on being a complete person all the time and getting shit done, in the weight room, on the conditioning “field” and in school (or work) and life.

You know who the baddest motherfucker in the world is? Fedor Emelianenko. He is far from “ripped” but the dude will kill you and fuck your women.

http://www.google.com/...dor&aqi=g10

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related
[/quote]

Quality post right here. I think ima start working with this diet asap as possible.

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protien shakes before each meal? wouldnt that be a bad idea for trying to get big/strong? seems like thats gonna fill you up on liquid and not get enough solid foods to meet calorie needs. obviously protien needs would be met, but thatd be hard to hit calorie numbers doing that. im really curious because if it does work good id love to do it, cuz thatd be easy

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[quote]anakayub wrote:
Add 5/10 pounds.[/quote]

its recommended to just keep going up 5/10 because the orignal %'s are based off of 90% your actual current max to ensure even on a shitty day you should still be able to hit the minimum reps required. if you want to push it you can reset to the actual max because your last lift is only 95% of that.

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[quote]tommytoughnuts wrote:

Quality post right here. I think ima start working with this diet asap as possible.[/quote]

Just makes sense, doesn’t it? I know Jim claims he’s not that bright, but he sure does hide it well.

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Cycle 11 Summary

I thought I did such a bang up job that I needed to share numbers:

Training Max Prev Max Current Max
SOHP.175…175x4…165x11
SQ…355…365x2…405x3
BP…255…265x2…315x1
DL…395…375x4…455x1

The previous maxes were well over a year ago and at a much heavier bodyweight. I think I’ve made great strides considering how much time off, and reduced Calories from dieting.

I had been in diet mode for a good 7 months. I was slowly gaining strength the entire time. Got to September down 40 lbs, had an erratic training schedule with lack luster results. Decided that I would bump the Cals up and dedicate October to strength training. I think it paid off.

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Jim and anyone else,

I’m not expecting some kind of miracle answer or anything, just looking for ideas.

OK, so I’m going to be having surgery in (hopefully) the next month or so. My right leg will not be able to bear ANY weight for at least 6 weeks, and I won’t be full weight bearing until I’m off crutches, which can be up to 6 months.

I guess the question is, what would you do in that situation? None of the main lifts will be possible. I can do floor press, dips, chins, stuff with light to moderate DBs, machines, etc.

My basic idea is to do 3 days a week. Day 1 is upper pushing with floor press as the main movement. Day 2 is upper pulling with chins as the main movement. Day 3 is “I will feel like shit if I don’t do something today” day where I do accessory stuff. This will be at home where I will do light shoulder work and some band work, just to get blood moving and to keep some semblance of normalcy.

Again, not looking for a complete program, just some ideas to work with.

Thanks.

EDIT: Just talked to a consultant at Duke Medical about the surgery. Apparently there is a 35 lb weight restriction for 12 months post-op, even when full weight bearing. So no heavy squats, deadlifts, or military for a year. That is the bad news. I will just have to rely on single leg stuff, GHRs, etc after the initial period on crutches.

The good news is that I will be able to do heavy seated work and stuff lying on a bench, whereas previously I thought that would be an issue.

I’m going to change my screen name to Bench Specialist.

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[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
tommytoughnuts wrote:

Quality post right here. I think ima start working with this diet asap as possible.

Just makes sense, doesn’t it? I know Jim claims he’s not that bright, but he sure does hide it well.[/quote]

No doubt. For all the noise he talks about not being so intelligent he really puts up some great ideas. And he’s pretty stinking funny if you ask me.

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Steel Nation: I’m sorry but may I ask what exactly is the injury and surgery that you’ll undergo? I’m not knowledgeable to give advice training-wise, just interested medical-wise if that’s okay with you.

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[quote]anakayub wrote:
Steel Nation: I’m sorry but may I ask what exactly is the injury and surgery that you’ll undergo? I’m not knowledgeable to give advice training-wise, just interested medical-wise if that’s okay with you.[/quote]

No problem. The injury was a posterior hip dislocation on the right side about 23 months ago, resulting in osteonecrosis to the femoral head, which is showing initial signs of collapse as of my last MR imaging about 3 months ago. The surgery is a free vascularized fibular bone graft, in lieu of a total hip replacement.

Just found out my surgery date is 11/19. Waaaaaay earlier than I was expecting (I’m going to miss hunting season!) but I’d rather it be sooner than later. The sooner it’s over the sooner I’m back to the fucking gym.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
anakayub wrote:
Steel Nation: I’m sorry but may I ask what exactly is the injury and surgery that you’ll undergo? I’m not knowledgeable to give advice training-wise, just interested medical-wise if that’s okay with you.

No problem. The injury was a posterior hip dislocation on the right side about 23 months ago, resulting in osteonecrosis to the femoral head, which is showing initial signs of collapse as of my last MR imaging about 3 months ago. The surgery is a free vascularized fibular bone graft, in lieu of a total hip replacement.

Just found out my surgery date is 11/19. Waaaaaay earlier than I was expecting (I’m going to miss hunting season!) but I’d rather it be sooner than later. The sooner it’s over the sooner I’m back to the fucking gym.[/quote]

good luck, post surgery can really suck

another dumb question here…I messed up and ended up doing 5 pounds too much on my bench, and it turns out the next cycle’s weight would be the same as the one I did this week. Should I just try and hit the same weight for more reps?

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[quote]OT wrote:
another dumb question here…I messed up and ended up doing 5 pounds too much on my bench, and it turns out the next cycle’s weight would be the same as the one I did this week. Should I just try and hit the same weight for more reps?[/quote]

That’s what I would do. Nothing wrong with it as you can still progress and get stronger.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Again, not looking for a complete program, just some ideas to work with.

Thanks.

EDIT: Just talked to a consultant at Duke Medical about the surgery. Apparently there is a 35 lb weight restriction for 12 months post-op, even when full weight bearing. So no heavy squats, deadlifts, or military for a year. That is the bad news. I will just have to rely on single leg stuff, GHRs, etc after the initial period on crutches.

The good news is that I will be able to do heavy seated work and stuff lying on a bench, whereas previously I thought that would be an issue.

I’m going to change my screen name to Bench Specialist. [/quote]

Keep a positive attitude and you may heal even quicker!

So you’re limited to the waist up …

do the normal/typical bb and db exercises, but also check out HS equipment, chest supported rows, isolation exercises, inverted rows (will probably have to cross one leg over another for support)

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

Just found out my surgery date is 11/19. Waaaaaay earlier than I was expecting (I’m going to miss hunting season!) but I’d rather it be sooner than later. The sooner it’s over the sooner I’m back to the fucking gym.[/quote]

I think you last sentence above is the best attitude to take into the surgery. Just be as aggressive with any therapy that’s proscribed for the hip as you are with your ‘regular’ lifintg.

Best wishes on a speedy recovery.

BTW, what part PA you from? I’m about 25 southwest of Pittsburgh and work up in Robinson.

/Go Steelers

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Question about my progression:

I’m on my 6th 5/3/1 cycle and enjoying the program more than any other lifting routine I’ve ever followed.

I’ve noticed that I seem to be strong on the 3x5 and 3x3 days and ‘seem’ to under perform on the 5/3/1 days. Today I had a disappointing 3x3 day on the bench.

My 3x5 weeks I’ve gotten the following reps:
9,9,10,7,8,8 (5 pound progressions each new cycle).

My 3x3 weeks:
8,6,7,6,6, and today 3

my ‘1’ week:
6,3,2,2,2,

I seem to be ‘weak’ on the top end. Example: my last 3x3 week I did 215x8; tonight I scheduled 230 and could only get 3(I’ve gotten 6@225 recently (according to the formula I needed to get 5/6 to = the calculated 1RM). I don’t think this was a ‘one off’ bad day. I’m seeing a trend in my logs.

I read about guys on 5/3/1 who end up with actual 1 RMs well above their training max.
My 1RM projects out to 265/270 or so when I get 8 reps@ 215. But I can barely get 2@240 and only 3 today @ 230. Makes me feel that I couldn’t push 255 for a single let alone 270 or so.

Is this normal or do I have a ‘weakness’ that needs corrected.
If this is not normal, any clues how to tackle fixing this?