Wendler 5/3/1 Program

Training Powerlifting
961

Jim says anything equal to or above the prescribed reps is fine.

Phil Wylie said get a minimum of 5 reps works best for him.

Jim said this about the 5 reps:

Both ideas have merit. Getting at least 5 reps would be getting good volume … and it would mean your maxes you are using are low enough to not be straining too much. If you are only getting 1 rep on the 1+ day (like I was at times) then maybe the weights are too high. Or maybe I was having a bad week.

Jim what do you think of this idea:

It is the 3rd week, the 1+ week where you are meant to get 1 or more reps.
You only get 1 rep.
You wait, and do another set of 1 rep. (maybe wait 15 seconds, maybe wait 5 mins)
Continue until you get 5 singles (or maybe just two singles see below)

Or something like that … something to get a few more reps at the top end.

For the 5+ aim to get 7 reps minimum, for the 3+ aim for 5 reps minimum and for the 1+ aim for at least 2 reps minimum even if that means doing sets of singles, or rest-pause, or ~something~ to get that many reps total.

And probably a good idea to reset the weights for the next cycle as well.

962

Magarghe, u seem to have mentioned the “don’t use 5%, use 10% jumps” a lot… What do you mean by that? Do you mean the jumps between sets?

Eg, in wave 1: 5x100, 5x110, 5x120 would be better than 5x110 5x115 5x120?

963

Yeah the jumps between sets. I think much better to do jumps of 10% … Wendler even said he uses the 10% jumps all the time now in the book. I think I was a bit eager doing the 5% jumps. The old “more is better” thinking … I also figured that if it got too much, I’d switch to 10% jumps in the next cycle, hence reducing the volume etc… but looking back, I think if I did 10% jumps I would have had more reps on the last set and maybe more progress.

Maybe, I don’t know, maybe I was sick for a few weeks.

964

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Jim says anything equal to or above the prescribed reps is fine.

Phil Wylie said get a minimum of 5 reps works best for him.

Jim said this about the 5 reps:
The “No less than 5 Reps” was something that Phil Wylie adopted - whether or not this is true for everyone, I really don’t know. But if you are still hitting 2-4 reps on the third week you are doing fine.

Both ideas have merit. Getting at least 5 reps would be getting good volume … and it would mean your maxes you are using are low enough to not be straining too much. If you are only getting 1 rep on the 1+ day (like I was at times) then maybe the weights are too high. Or maybe I was having a bad week.

Jim what do you think of this idea:

It is the 3rd week, the 1+ week where you are meant to get 1 or more reps.
You only get 1 rep.
You wait, and do another set of 1 rep. (maybe wait 15 seconds, maybe wait 5 mins)
Continue until you get 5 singles (or maybe just two singles see below)

Or something like that … something to get a few more reps at the top end.

For the 5+ aim to get 7 reps minimum, for the 3+ aim for 5 reps minimum and for the 1+ aim for at least 2 reps minimum even if that means doing sets of singles, or rest-pause, or ~something~ to get that many reps total.

And probably a good idea to reset the weights for the next cycle as well.
[/quote]

Dude, just relax, try and get as many reps as you can. If you only get the prescribed reps on the last set, reset and start over again. This is about the simplest program on the planet. It works. Don’t overcomplicate it. Focus on SFW.

965

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Hopefully, I can get a bit of feedback from all you 5/3/1 vets. I have always followed a more BB style program but after reading this thread I want to really up my strength. Now I have never written or followed a strength routine so help would be appreciated.

Sat:
Squat 5/3/1
Squat 5x10
Leg curls or GHR 4x12
calves

Mon:
Bench 5/3/1
Bench 5x10
Seated Row 4x12
DB Curls

Wed:
Deadlift 5/3/1
Deadlift 5x10
Lunges 4x12
Abs

Fri:
Military Press 5/3/1
Military Press 5x10
Pull Ups 4x12
Dips

Does it look Ok? should I lower the reps on the 3rd exercises maybe 4x8? I’m going for a more strength oriented program. I didn’t put set or reps for the last exercises because I figured I would go with how I felt at the end of each workout.[/quote]

I think it looks good. Don’t make the mistake I did and do too much assistance. Keep it light and focus on your main lifts and you will be well compensated.

966

[quote]gsherman14 wrote:
Magarhe wrote:
Jim says anything equal to or above the prescribed reps is fine.

Phil Wylie said get a minimum of 5 reps works best for him.

Jim said this about the 5 reps:
The “No less than 5 Reps” was something that Phil Wylie adopted - whether or not this is true for everyone, I really don’t know. But if you are still hitting 2-4 reps on the third week you are doing fine.

Both ideas have merit. Getting at least 5 reps would be getting good volume … and it would mean your maxes you are using are low enough to not be straining too much. If you are only getting 1 rep on the 1+ day (like I was at times) then maybe the weights are too high. Or maybe I was having a bad week.

Jim what do you think of this idea:

It is the 3rd week, the 1+ week where you are meant to get 1 or more reps.
You only get 1 rep.
You wait, and do another set of 1 rep. (maybe wait 15 seconds, maybe wait 5 mins)
Continue until you get 5 singles (or maybe just two singles see below)

Or something like that … something to get a few more reps at the top end.

For the 5+ aim to get 7 reps minimum, for the 3+ aim for 5 reps minimum and for the 1+ aim for at least 2 reps minimum even if that means doing sets of singles, or rest-pause, or ~something~ to get that many reps total.

And probably a good idea to reset the weights for the next cycle as well.

Dude, just relax, try and get as many reps as you can. If you only get the prescribed reps on the last set, reset and start over again. This is about the simplest program on the planet. It works. Don’t overcomplicate it. Focus on SFW.
[/quote]

There were a couple times I only got the prescribed reps and I didn’t reset. It was only when I couldn’t get them that I reset. I agree, don’t overthink it. Do it AS written and you will like the results. Give it some time for the magic to show through.

967

There is a strongman comp coming up in a couple months with only two events, Log clean and press and axle deadlift (with straps!!!)

The are both for reps, and then followed by a max.

I am considering going in this, and somehow work it into my current 5/3/1.

Could I add the Log to the Military day as an accessory
the axle deadlift after deadlift day.

The deadlift is from 19 inches (just about knee height)

Would it be okay to change the military as a push press?

968

i’ll have to miss almost a week, which is projected to be wave c 5/3/1. should i just continue with C after i get back, or should i go back to A and start over? if i continue with C, should I also do the deload week or is that extra rest week considered a sufficient deload?

969

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Jim says anything equal to or above the prescribed reps is fine.

Phil Wylie said get a minimum of 5 reps works best for him.

Jim said this about the 5 reps:
The “No less than 5 Reps” was something that Phil Wylie adopted - whether or not this is true for everyone, I really don’t know. But if you are still hitting 2-4 reps on the third week you are doing fine.

Both ideas have merit. Getting at least 5 reps would be getting good volume … and it would mean your maxes you are using are low enough to not be straining too much. If you are only getting 1 rep on the 1+ day (like I was at times) then maybe the weights are too high. Or maybe I was having a bad week.

[/quote]

Maybe there are low-rep people and high rep people… each one handles differently heavy work in low rep hanges so it seems that i have to learn by trial and error when to reset the max.

970

I am finishing my 6th wave and here is how I have decided if I need to reset. I base that decision off how I do on my 5/3/1 week. If I only can get one, I will not increase my maxes for the following wave, I will leave them where they are. I will then use the same weight sfor another 4 week period and see how I do.

If I have the same problem on the 5/3/1 week, then I reset and go from there. I am just now resetting my BP and DL for the first time as this time through I couldn’t improve. However, I had the same problem on my squat and rather than getting 1, I got an easy 3 this time so I will bump that one up.

971

[quote]kickureface wrote:
i’ll have to miss almost a week, which is projected to be wave c 5/3/1. should i just continue with C after i get back, or should i go back to A and start over? if i continue with C, should I also do the deload week or is that extra rest week considered a sufficient deload?
[/quote]

Just use this as a deload week and do some bodyweight exercises if you can.

972

[quote]DCR wrote:
There is a strongman comp coming up in a couple months with only two events, Log clean and press and axle deadlift (with straps!!!)

The are both for reps, and then followed by a max.

I am considering going in this, and somehow work it into my current 5/3/1.

Could I add the Log to the Military day as an accessory
the axle deadlift after deadlift day.
I would use the log as your main exercise rather than the MP and the axle as your main exercises rather than regular DL.

The deadlift is from 19 inches (just about knee height)

Would it be okay to change the military as a push press?[/quote]

973

[quote]gsherman14 wrote:

Dude, just relax, try and get as many reps as you can. If you only get the prescribed reps on the last set, reset and start over again. This is about the simplest program on the planet. It works. Don’t overcomplicate it. Focus on SFW.
[/quote]

I think you are missing the point that it did NOT work. And many times it has been said, that it will NOT work if you start with weights too heavy, do too much assistance work, etc… and so forth. Quite a few people have stated here that it didn’t work so well until they made a few minor changes. These are the things I am looking for that will work better for me.

It wasn’t a disaster for me by a long shot. 2 months and deadlift up, MP about the same, bench is about the same, haven’t tested squat yet. Lost fat. Gained muscle. All good. BUT I really wanted MP up, dammit.

I wasn’t getting the extra reps on the last set which makes me think I overestimated or used too high a PR in the first place. If I can lower the weights or do some other thing differently and get great results for the next cycle, that would be great.

And I don’t want to fiddle around getting 1 rep on the 1+ week or 5 reps on the 5+ week and wait a whole month before changing things around / lowering weight. I’d rather those 4 weeks were more productive. I suspect doing a few more singles at the end might do this. But if Jim says “nah we tried that everyone crashed and burned” then I won’t do that.

974

[quote]DCR wrote:
There is a strongman comp coming up in a couple months with only two events, Log clean and press and axle deadlift (with straps!!!)

The are both for reps, and then followed by a max.

I am considering going in this, and somehow work it into my current 5/3/1.

Could I add the Log to the Military day as an accessory
the axle deadlift after deadlift day.

The deadlift is from 19 inches (just about knee height)

Would it be okay to change the military as a push press?[/quote]

What are the weights and how hard are those weights for you? Personally I would do Log push presses as the main pressing move or BB if you dont have one. I would continue to do the deadlift from the floor and do some rack pulls as a second movement with contest weight if its not to heavy for you. This isn’t probably technically 5/3/1 but its what I would do if I had a contest like that coming up.

975

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
gsherman14 wrote:

Dude, just relax, try and get as many reps as you can. If you only get the prescribed reps on the last set, reset and start over again. This is about the simplest program on the planet. It works. Don’t overcomplicate it. Focus on SFW.

I think you are missing the point that it did NOT work. And many times it has been said, that it will NOT work if you start with weights too heavy, do too much assistance work, etc… and so forth. Quite a few people have stated here that it didn’t work so well until they made a few minor changes. These are the things I am looking for that will work better for me.

It wasn’t a disaster for me by a long shot. 2 months and deadlift up, MP about the same, bench is about the same, haven’t tested squat yet. Lost fat. Gained muscle. All good. BUT I really wanted MP up, dammit.

I wasn’t getting the extra reps on the last set which makes me think I overestimated or used too high a PR in the first place. If I can lower the weights or do some other thing differently and get great results for the next cycle, that would be great.

And I don’t want to fiddle around getting 1 rep on the 1+ week or 5 reps on the 5+ week and wait a whole month before changing things around / lowering weight. I’d rather those 4 weeks were more productive. I suspect doing a few more singles at the end might do this. But if Jim says “nah we tried that everyone crashed and burned” then I won’t do that.

[/quote]

I would say give it a try and see if it works for you. Doing it in the 1’s week just before the deload week/wave probably can’t hurt you, unless it starts affecting the other lifts in the 1’s week. But you won’t know 'til you try.

That said - getting 1 rep on the last sets in 1’s week is considered a success in this program and the next cycle working maxes go up accordingly.

976

Just finished my second cycle, I’m stronger than I’ve ever been in my life at 36 years old. My wife was impressed enough with my decreasing body fat to start 5/3/1!

977

[quote]Kalle wrote:
DCR wrote:
There is a strongman comp coming up in a couple months with only two events, Log clean and press and axle deadlift (with straps!!!)

The are both for reps, and then followed by a max.

I am considering going in this, and somehow work it into my current 5/3/1.

Could I add the Log to the Military day as an accessory
the axle deadlift after deadlift day.

The deadlift is from 19 inches (just about knee height)

Would it be okay to change the military as a push press?

What are the weights and how hard are those weights for you? Personally I would do Log push presses as the main pressing move or BB if you dont have one. I would continue to do the deadlift from the floor and do some rack pulls as a second movement with contest weight if its not to heavy for you. This isn’t probably technically 5/3/1 but its what I would do if I had a contest like that coming up.[/quote]

Turns out i cant do the comp now anyways! Thanks for your help.

But since I am thinking about doing a strongman comp sometime next year, I might try messing around with a template that incorporates the 3 power lifts along with strongman lifts.

978

[quote]DCR wrote:
Turns out i cant do the comp now anyways! Thanks for your help.

But since I am thinking about doing a strongman comp sometime next year, I might try messing around with a template that incorporates the 3 power lifts along with strongman lifts.

[/quote]

5/3/1 would be perfect for strongman. The deadlift training on 5/3/1 would work well since it helps you deadlift more for reps and improves your 1 rep max. The volume is low enough that you could balance 5/3/1 with your strongman training.

979

[quote]jfc0533 wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
rcfromdb wrote:
Loved the ebook. That pic of your son at the end is adorable :slight_smile: Midway through cycle 1 and surprised by how much boring but big is kicking my ass. Looking forward to putting up some big numbers by next year (23).

If you are close to London, Ohio, you are welcome to stop by and train.

Jim (My sensei of strength),

I will be in the Columbus area for about a week (May 25-31). Would it possible for me to stop by the compound and train sometime during that week? After watching Dave’s video I really feel like I need to learn how to bench (and squat and deadlift and military press).

Thanks for being so helpful both on this thread and in the elitefts Q&A section and thanks for writing an awesome ebook.

Jon[/quote]

This is fine - just make sure you call to schedule appointment.

980

[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Jim says anything equal to or above the prescribed reps is fine.

Phil Wylie said get a minimum of 5 reps works best for him.

Jim said this about the 5 reps:
The “No less than 5 Reps” was something that Phil Wylie adopted - whether or not this is true for everyone, I really don’t know. But if you are still hitting 2-4 reps on the third week you are doing fine.

Both ideas have merit. Getting at least 5 reps would be getting good volume … and it would mean your maxes you are using are low enough to not be straining too much. If you are only getting 1 rep on the 1+ day (like I was at times) then maybe the weights are too high. Or maybe I was having a bad week.

Jim what do you think of this idea:

It is the 3rd week, the 1+ week where you are meant to get 1 or more reps.
You only get 1 rep.
You wait, and do another set of 1 rep. (maybe wait 15 seconds, maybe wait 5 mins)
Continue until you get 5 singles (or maybe just two singles see below)

Or something like that … something to get a few more reps at the top end.

For the 5+ aim to get 7 reps minimum, for the 3+ aim for 5 reps minimum and for the 1+ aim for at least 2 reps minimum even if that means doing sets of singles, or rest-pause, or ~something~ to get that many reps total.

And probably a good idea to reset the weights for the next cycle as well.
[/quote]

If you are only getting one rep, then you probably need to evaluate why this is happening. Just a bad day? Or are you reaching your strength maximum?

I wouldn’t do the rest/pause thing.